Not even hiding it anymore
Ukraine cannot guarantee anything except losing the war with Russia.
Please rephrase - so that we may appropriately firebomb or praise this post.
It’s currently ambiguous which side this statement supports.
Thank you.
- Random internet person
Nobody on hexbear supports a side in this war; they just want it to end, and are bitter about Ukraine’s leadership continuing to hold out while its people keep dying in a war that they can’t win without massive NATO intervention, which is not coming and would cause a nuclear war if it did.
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States aren’t people.
Oh look, another liberal that didn’t pay attention to this conflict until 2022.
You seem to believe what the Western media has been telling you for the past three years: that ebil Putler woke up one day out of nowhere and decided to imperialistically invade Ukraine. Russia didn’t start the war and it didn’t start in 2022 either, it started in 2014 with the US-backed nazi coup in Ukraine. As for your SA comparison, that’s just gross and frankly a strawman argument anyway.
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I did address your points, you said Russia started the war and I said they didn’t.
Then go away. We don’t care to have you around because you are clearly just trolling with the same tired NATO approved talking points we have debunked a thousand times over. You are being willfully ignorant at this point so please fine fuck off back to reddit you will be more comfortable there.
No more time needed here
And the trash takes itself out. Good job folks.
Hey how come you only responded to one of the comments when there are several others that tried to address your points? Almost as if you’re a coward and a troll
well they are on lemm.ee so…
I know a lot of posters on this site can be uncharitable, but here is a bit more context that might help you understand where they are coming from
Can you please describe a scenario where Ukraine is able to stop losing territory, re-capture all the territory they want, including Crimea? Remember, we’re years into this and Ukraine’s population has been decimated by emigration and combat losses. If you can’t come up with a plausible path to victory, then continuing to fight only guarantees more death and more lost territory.
“I don’t know anything about the arguments on Hexbear, but am still just going to go ahead and make simplistic assumptions about arguments on Hexbear.”
Gotta be one of my favorite genders
stop punching back
The figurative fist in that analogy is child conscripts being forced at gunpoint into a meatgrinder for the vanity and profit of US-aligned politicians and fascist military leaders, and every time the fist lands they have to go get a new fist because it gets annihilated.
And the war only happened in the first place because they kept taking swings at their neighbor whom they wanted to annex in violation of ceasefire agreements where they promised to stop doing that, while loudly shouting that any day now they’d join a gang and be given nukes, prompting their other neighbor to intercede to stop the existing conflict and prevent them from getting nukes.
It’s more like our stance is based around reality. We also have zero affection for Nazis unlike NATO. Russia is a terrible capitalist state which has more manpower than Ukraine, more weapons than Ukraine and possesses Nuclear Weapons and will not give up Crimea under any circumstance. The war exists solely to benefit the NATO Military Industrial Complex at this point. Ukraine can not afford this war as a people and yet they’re chasing a pipe dream for the sake of American Billionaires.
Additionally, the war is a result of Ukraine not following Minsk 2 agreements and using that time to stall and arm themselves to wage war against the DPR/LPR.
Stop acting like you care about Ukrainians. You just want the Ukrainians to keep fighting so europe and the US dont have to, and can use innocent ukrainians as meat shields. Your scared Russia will keep going after Ukraine and are completely fine with letting Ukrainians die to keep europe safe.
You claim to care about Ukrainians yet your on hexbear of all places arguing with random internet people who just want peace instead of reckoning with the fact that this war only happened because the US and europe pressured Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security garuntees they didnt honor, and literally purposefully antagnoized Russia hoping it would do this. And then they used the war to test their weapons and get rid of backstock without having to use their own soldiers.
You also seem to not care about the Ukrainians who were being slaughtered by Azov before this war even started. A battalion trained by the west and purposefully radicalized to cause chaos in Ukraine.
You reduce an entire war and the mutli decade lead up to it down to “Well do you support Ukraine or Russia” as if either option is somehow the moral choice. Moral people support PEACE. It doesnt matter what flag flies over your head if you can choose to either be shot at or not. you choose to not be shot at.
Would it be nice if we could go back in time and warn Ukraine not to give up its nukes and not to trust the wests garuntees? Yeah. But we cant. We have to deal with the situation we have, and somehow stop the horrific war taking place before even more innocent people die. If thinking that the war should end before Ukraine literally runs out of soldiers to send to die makes me a “Russia supporter” then whatever. Fuck you.
US and europe pressured Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security garuntees they didnt honor,
The modern state of Ukraine never had nukes. The Ukrainian SSR held nukes within its territory, but Russia is the legal successor state to the USSR and took on all its debts, obligations, and nuclear weapons. All nations agreed to this. Modern Ukraine was never trusted to have nukes, never took on the requisite obligations and treaties, and never owned them for even a split second. This is a Western re-framing of reality
0%
This is a modern fantasy about Ukraine having nukes that never happened, this entire comment was ahistorical. Ukraine never had nukes to give up, never had a chance in hell of keeping the Ukrainian SSR nukes, and the security guarantees that Ukraine received at the time were from Russia and against the encroaching West. Ukrainians at that time were not concerned with Russia invading them but with NATO and western aggression. It was Russia that failed to uphold its security guarantees by allowing the 2014 coup and the NATO takeover. Russia failed Ukraine by not immediately invading and destroying the Western Nazi takeover.
Yes, that’s another perspective on the same set of facts
reality is pro-russian by default
Fascist
Ukraine can’t win the war. The longer it goes on, the more of them will die and the more land they will have to surrender.
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That’s because it’s not a statement of support. It’s a statement of material reality.
I mean, I hate Putin and the politics of the Russian Federation for the most part, but if they wanted to invade and dismantle Germany right now I’d support it.
It would be an extremely bad move on his part. I highly doubt he would try a hit on moscow like that. Russia announced a ceasefire and hes gonna hit an international delegation? Good way to make the entire world turn against ukraine. This is just reddit nonsense.
If he does that they can kiss Kiev goodbye.
Ya seriously. Good chance Russia responds with a tactical nuke.
That would be a strategic nuke. Tactical nukes are nukes deployed onto a battlefield.
Oh i thought tactical nukes were just like a smaller class of nuke.
There really is no such classification, the term was first used iirc by MacArthur who wanted to use cobalt bombs all along the border of China and Korea during the Korean war.
Ah so its one of those terms that means nothing but also means whatever you want it to mean?
it’s like ‘assault rifle’
Yes-ish, you’re mostly right as there are specific weapons types for specific uses. Using a full size h-bomb designed for striking a city to hit an armored group doesn’t magically turn it into a tactical weapon even if the use itself might be said to be. The people responding to you are ignorant or just playing with words in a “acktually” type way. While there isn’t any I suppose international standards body definition of the fact, tactical nuclear weapons are smaller and understood to be smaller because they’re for battlefield use and you don’t want to hit your army which is often in fairly close proximity. One can look at descriptions of payload size for various tactical nuclear weapons in NATO and Soviet arsenals to verify this. Nuclear artillery shells exist for instance and very much are tactical not strategic weapons. There’s definitely some grey area around missile delivered types given the varying megatonage but tactical weapons.
Just because something doesn’t have a hard and fast concrete definition doesn’t mean there aren’t connotations commonly understood to have some meaning in a certain way.
Specifically US and Soviet Union had several rounds of agreements on reductions of and control of nuclear forces with definitions agreed by both sides on limiting strategic weapons in one way and tactical nuclear weapons in another way. They used these terms, these aren’t imaginary terms they are ones recognized by major powers and military planners and weapons designers and are valid and real and carry real meanings.
Tactical nukes in another sense are meant to be deployed to the battlefield, often with mobile launchers or by aircraft whereas stationary/silo ICBMs are I believe nearly entirely strategic weapons in the case of Russia and the US (China is another matter).
Ya seriously. Good chance Russia responds with a tactical nuke.
That would be a colossal mistake. They’d probably launch an all out assault of Oreshnik and cruise missles
Not if the conventional drone strike on Moscow was also accompanied by a nuclear detonation on Ukraine territory. Not a detonation or a Russian nuclear bomb, but the grand unveiling of the results of a secret Ukrainian nuclear weapons program!
Are our history textbooks just going to be filled with genai slop after a certain point? I guess the better question is if Ukraine will still exist in the history books in a few years.
Future cultural anthropologists will treat 2020 or so like a kind of K-T boundary in geology. There’s a bright line there dividing before and after, and composition of all written records after the commercialization of LLMs will be hopelessly contaminated by the fallout from a catastrophic event.
I think so sadly (about the genai slop) although at a certain point it will likely get harder to tell it’s slop
I can tell it’s slop because human artists don’t dream of bombing a parade and wouldn’t want to be attached to that.
genAI is used by the worst and laziest human beings.
“Our position is very simple for all countries planning to attend on May 9: We cannot be held responsible for anything that happens on the territory of the Russian Federation,” Zelenskyy said. “They provide your security, and so we will not offer any guarantees.”
“They can carry out various provocations—arson, explosions, and so on—and then blame us,” he said. “As president, I told our foreign minister that when people reach out to us, we must say: ‘We do not recommend visiting Russia for security reasons. And if you choose to go, don’t ask us about your safety. That’s your personal decision.’”
Just futureproofing that anything that happens is actually a false flag from Russia, while kind of planting the idea for somebody to go do some asymmetric warfare for them
Zelensky can’t even guarantee his own safety, this is rich
I mean, he sorta has for the past 3 or 4 years
By being a better option than the azov nazi scum to replace him would be?
Yo, so unrelated question for you. I see this community is always hyper fixated on calling Ukraine Nazis (glad you specifically pointed out Azov instead of broad gesturing). Calling out Nazis is always a good thing to do, however my understanding is Russia also has a significant Nazi problem particularly in their military as well.
So for real, I’m actually curious here and asking a genuine question so no need for intense emotions to anyone who replys, but why does hexbear not seem to care at all about Russian Nazis, or atleast I haven’t seen anyone in this community criticizing or brining it up.
My best guess is that Ukraine is supported by the west and that’s the only reason it’s fixated on here, but I don’t know everything and could be totally wrong (that’s why I’m asking)
Russian nazis aren’t in positions of power, whereas in Ukraine they run the intelligence branch, they’re mayors, they’re police chiefs, they’re in the cabinet. Azov wasn’t like a “kind of” nazi militia, they were explicitly nazis and the Ukrainian government has taken them into the military and use them as elite troops. Russia’s militarized nazis were in the Wagner group, which you might remember were used in brutal and unforgiving ways which conveniently liquidated of a bunch of them. It’s impossible to identify why the Russian government chose to use them as expendables, but it sure seems like a decision based on not valuing the lives of nazis whatsoever. Furthermore, Russia never had a fascist government engaging in pogroms and ethnic cleansing, whereas Ukraine has the Banderite fascists in their history and they officially venerate them. They are systematically renaming things with Soviet names to name them after Banderite scum. In 2014, the US backed fascist factions who overthrew the government and murdered opposition party supporters en masse.
Then there’s my “favorite” CIA-related detail about this, Project Aerodynamic (link intentionally broken because it’s linking directly to the CIA website) cia dot gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC%20%20%20VOL.%201_0118.pdf
CIA started relocating nazis and banderites to Ukraine in the 1950s with the explicit intention of empowering a fascist opposition with the ultimate goal of destabilizing the USSR and creating a fascist breakaway state. They never stopped this type of thing, that’s why Azov were acting as the CIA’s pawns on the ground as early as 2014.
Furthermore, Russia never had a fascist government engaging in pogroms and ethnic cleansing
Well I think the tarist government had some of that.
tsarist russia wasn’t fascist though, and this is in regards to fascist factions
Fair.
Thanks for your response as well, you mentioned a lot of stuff I should read and learn more about. Had no idea about the CIA Nazi project.
I have one mild critique not really related to the bulk of your comment because I’m just not educated enough to reapond to the rest as of now.
but it sure seems like a decision based on not valuing the lives of nazis whatsoever
IMO, there is significant evidence to support the idea that the Russian government doesn’t value the lives of anyone, what so ever. Particularly anyone in the army, nazi or not.
IMO, there is significant evidence to support the idea that the Russian government doesn’t value the lives of anyone, what so ever. Particularly anyone in the army, nazi or not.
What evidence is that, other than the smears of western propaganda? Do you know why Russia moves so slowly across the battlefield, and why Ukrainian troops relate never ever seeing a Russian soldier? It’s because softening up Ukrainian defenses with artillery and other ranged weapons prevents the loss of Russian lives at the cost of significantly slowing down battlefield progress. Do you know how many civilians have lost their lives in this conflict? The answer is about thirteen thousand, total. Can you tell me how three years of war with 13k civilian casualties compares to the American invasion of Iraq? Syria? Afghanistan?
It’s quite clear that America does not value human life, but that isn’t clear about Russia when you actually examine their tactics and how many civilians die.
America certainly doesn’t value human life either, and I didn’t claim that. I’m not really educated on civilian casualties in different wars, I was mainly referring to all their military personnel.
Russia routinely sends in waves of poorly equipped soldiers just like the earlier mention of them using Wagner in “meat waves”, however this isn’t exclusive to Wagner and Nazis, its just how the Russian armed forces operate.
A recent example I can recall is north Korean troops being used in the exact same manner, being sent In unprepared, poorly equipped, with no real heavy equipment support, where they promptly die by fpv drone.
Training conditions for new soldiers is also extremely poor before they’re shipped out, at least it appeared that way in the past when I viewed many videos from new soldiers in Russia being trained. However that was a while ago, and who knows maybe it was all us/Ukraine propaganda videos.
I’m not gonna pretend to know everything, or claim I’m immune to propaganda. I certainty consumed a lot of western propaganda especially earlier in the war, I appreciate hearing all your differing opinions but at least on this point it seems comical to me to suggest Russia cares about the lives of their soldiers.
Had no idea about the CIA Nazi project.
so here’s the thing about the CIA and nazis…
Well that’s just not the case and I would encourage a little more reflection on that. Perhaps considering ideas of Western Chauvinism.
So I read the adl page on Western Chauvinism and this wiki page Chauvinism and don’t understand how it relates to me saying Russia doesn’t value human life. I don’t think America values human life either, am I misunderstanding?
Russian nazis aren’t in positions of power
Putin likes to quote this guy btw.
Posts like yours make me really uncomfortable with hexbear as they give a false impression that the Russian government isn’t almost exactly the same as the Ukrainian government. We don’t have to whitewash Russia to criticise Ukraine.
If you think the Russians are the same as the Ukrainians, who venerate literal fascists who explicitly liquidated ethnic groups they hated, you’re insane. Nothing I have said whitewashes Russia, everything I have said is literal fact. Russia isn’t some great nation of equality, but they’re not run by a nazi coup government like Ukraine.
I am not the ableist slur you used. Beyond being uninformed of the political climate in Russia, I can’t believe you even dare to suggest that using barely trained convicts as “expendables” while giving out the most venerated medals to their Nazi commanders is not a very Nazi thing to do and then follow that up with claiming you’re not whitewashing anything. It’s surreal to see takes like this on a left-leaning forum.
In Russia, Nazis like the Wagner group were used as cannon fodder, given poor supplies, and had their leader assassinated. In Ukraine, Nazis like the Azov battalion are directly integrated into the military command structure, given the best equipment, and are the ones using other people as cannon fodder. Some non-nazi Ukrainians sign up with the Nazi factions because it’s more likely to survive than if they were snatched off the street and conscripted into a meat grinder regiment. No one in Russia is doing that, which shows how differently they are treated in each country. These Nazis are also celebrated by the west, like how Canada had a standing ovation in parliament for a literal SS veteran because he “fought against Russia in WW2.”
I personally do bring up Russian Nazis whenever I see that the tone of the conversation crosses into buying Russian propaganda too much, even if ironically, which can be an issue on hexbear.
Ukraine being backed by the most powerful fascist government in the world – the US – is indeed part of the reason why people tend to emphasise Ukrainian Nazis. Another part is that Ukrainian nationalism is often uncrititically accepted and propagated by Western media. An example you’ve probably seen is the widespread use of the “Slava Ukraini” slogan, which has a history of being used by Ukrainian Nazi collaborators.
Thank you! I appreciate the response and better understanding it has given me
Just to add to what others said another reason we don’t really bother focusing on Russia is that the entire western media sphere is intensely focused on demonizing Russia already, we are here to provide people larger context and alternate perspectives based on our historical and materialist analysis rooted as best we can in the way things are and not an ideal of what ought to be.
Totally valid point, a perspective from an outsider though is that exclusively focusing on one while ignoring the other pushes outsiders away from hearing and learning your perspectives. However if you don’t really care about interacting with outsiders it doesn’t matter really I suppose.
I like interacting on hexbear because I think having your opinions and views challenged is healthy, and doing this has actually pulled me out of a lot of western propaganda and I’ve taken to sharing some views with users here, however a lot of other people just block this instance and are locked away forever In their little echo chambers.
What is the Russian propaganda line that we need to be wary of, to be clear?
Comrade john_brown comment in the adjacent thread has some good examples – generally the denial of how much Russian nationalism permeates every level of the Russian society, including the highest echelons of the government, all while wearing the corpse of the Soviet Union for pretense.
Nationalism isn’t fascism
You see, it’s about power dynamics. Also, stick around long enough and you’ll see plenty of folks calling out Russian Nazi’s. They just aren’t at the leading edge of this conflict in the way Ukrainian Nazi’s ala-Banderites and Azov are, so you’re pretty close there I think with your reasoning.
Edit to add: you should be overwhelmingly seeing support for Ukrainian and Russian citizens equally, I don’t think anybody here is intentionally painting all Ukrainian’s as Nazi’s, just the ones that are actual proud Nazi’s.
I don’t think he’s any more practically responsible for his own safety than Ngo Dinh Diem was
when has russia attempted a decapitation strike?
Russia hasn’t tried to kill him. If they wanted him dead, he’d be dead. He goes around to the front and does PR parades and stuff. Easy to hit with a drone or missile at any time.
Well he can from Russia by not murdering Putin. If they killed Putin his own life would be forfeit and I suspect that’s a big reason Russia doesn’t kill him. That and they don’t want to martyr him when he’s going to grow increasingly unpopular. But it leaves a kind of line uncrossed to not give justification to the Ukrainians doing that because at that point Russia not only nukes Ukraine but they probably have to nuke some of their supporters, perhaps Rammstein airbase in Germany, or some big NATO base in Poland or the UK or some US proxy force that allows them to express their displeasure and inflict pain and dissuasion from ever doing that again without directly hitting the US in a way that forces them to hit Russia back directly.
From the nazis in his own regime is another matter but he does seem to have consolidated power during the course of the war by removing rivals and adversaries so he may be quite a bit safer than he was at the start of the SMO. I think honestly if Trump could get rid of him super easily with a guy waiting in the wings he wouldn’t mind it because of the personal disrespect and lack of groveling and ass-kissing he displayed to him.
yep Ukronazis wanting to bomb Victory Day parade
strategically it will just be another dumb move from the Ukrainians. Putin will probably just let you do a symbolic attack on Victory day, because the impact will not be significant in terms of physical damage, but it will surely galvanize the Russian population into fullout war on the Ukrainian Nazi Regime.
The Ukrainians always complain about Russia weaponizing WW2 narratives against them and framing everything as Nazis vs. Soviets.
Then they go and say shit like this, that they want to bomb the victory day parade of the soviets filled with civilians and foreign diplomats and officials. Homie, you’re framing it that way yourself with your own actions
Didn’t russia have like 2 tanks at the last parade? Doesn’t seem like a target rich environment but more of something to send a message.
Oops all Nazis!
who would win, ai-huffing copium addicts threatening international leaders? or the most comprehensive air defence ever devised?
Yet, this “most comprehensive” air defense system didn’t manage to shoot out most of the drones that hit russian oil refineries thousands of kilometres away from Ukraine
victory day parades are not held at oil refineries, they’re held next to the Kremlin
Abusive husband vibes.
Continuing the metaphor, Donbas is the long-suffering partner who the abusive husband lies about when she finally leaves. Yeah buddy, she was secretly a “Russian-backed seperatist” the whole time, plotting against you. You totally didn’t actively drive her into the safety of someone else’s arms with your wanton cruelty.
this is so stupid I’m actually angry it exists
He won’t but he should keep saying shit like this to get on everybody’s bad side
i’m sure the chinese love hearing this
Im pretty sure the Russian military can make that guarantee in their place
Yeah attack and hit some Chinese diplomats. See how that works out for you Zelenskyy
Please ZelensKKKyy, I need it for my politics bingo
All bark
I fail to see how that ends with anything other than Keiv getting hit with an oreshnik
