You seem to believe what the Western media has been telling you for the past three years: that ebil Putler woke up one day out of nowhere and decided to imperialistically invade Ukraine. Russia didn’t start the war and it didn’t start in 2022 either, it started in 2014 with the US-backed nazi coup in Ukraine. As for your SA comparison, that’s just gross and frankly a strawman argument anyway.
Then go away. We don’t care to have you around because you are clearly just trolling with the same tired NATO approved talking points we have debunked a thousand times over. You are being willfully ignorant at this point so please fine fuck off back to reddit you will be more comfortable there.
Hey how come you only responded to one of the comments when there are several others that tried to address your points? Almost as if you’re a coward and a troll
Can you please describe a scenario where Ukraine is able to stop losing territory, re-capture all the territory they want, including Crimea? Remember, we’re years into this and Ukraine’s population has been decimated by emigration and combat losses. If you can’t come up with a plausible path to victory, then continuing to fight only guarantees more death and more lost territory.
“I don’t know anything about the arguments on Hexbear, but am still just going to go ahead and make simplistic assumptions about arguments on Hexbear.”
The figurative fist in that analogy is child conscripts being forced at gunpoint into a meatgrinder for the vanity and profit of US-aligned politicians and fascist military leaders, and every time the fist lands they have to go get a new fist because it gets annihilated.
And the war only happened in the first place because they kept taking swings at their neighbor whom they wanted to annex in violation of ceasefire agreements where they promised to stop doing that, while loudly shouting that any day now they’d join a gang and be given nukes, prompting their other neighbor to intercede to stop the existing conflict and prevent them from getting nukes.
It’s more like our stance is based around reality. We also have zero affection for Nazis unlike NATO. Russia is a terrible capitalist state which has more manpower than Ukraine, more weapons than Ukraine and possesses Nuclear Weapons and will not give up Crimea under any circumstance. The war exists solely to benefit the NATO Military Industrial Complex at this point. Ukraine can not afford this war as a people and yet they’re chasing a pipe dream for the sake of American Billionaires.
Additionally, the war is a result of Ukraine not following Minsk 2 agreements and using that time to stall and arm themselves to wage war against the DPR/LPR.
Stop acting like you care about Ukrainians. You just want the Ukrainians to keep fighting so europe and the US dont have to, and can use innocent ukrainians as meat shields. Your scared Russia will keep going after Ukraine and are completely fine with letting Ukrainians die to keep europe safe.
You claim to care about Ukrainians yet your on hexbear of all places arguing with random internet people who just want peace instead of reckoning with the fact that this war only happened because the US and europe pressured Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security garuntees they didnt honor, and literally purposefully antagnoized Russia hoping it would do this. And then they used the war to test their weapons and get rid of backstock without having to use their own soldiers.
You also seem to not care about the Ukrainians who were being slaughtered by Azov before this war even started. A battalion trained by the west and purposefully radicalized to cause chaos in Ukraine.
You reduce an entire war and the mutli decade lead up to it down to “Well do you support Ukraine or Russia” as if either option is somehow the moral choice. Moral people support PEACE. It doesnt matter what flag flies over your head if you can choose to either be shot at or not. you choose to not be shot at.
Would it be nice if we could go back in time and warn Ukraine not to give up its nukes and not to trust the wests garuntees? Yeah. But we cant. We have to deal with the situation we have, and somehow stop the horrific war taking place before even more innocent people die. If thinking that the war should end before Ukraine literally runs out of soldiers to send to die makes me a “Russia supporter” then whatever. Fuck you.
US and europe pressured Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security garuntees they didnt honor,
The modern state of Ukraine never had nukes. The Ukrainian SSR held nukes within its territory, but Russia is the legal successor state to the USSR and took on all its debts, obligations, and nuclear weapons. All nations agreed to this. Modern Ukraine was never trusted to have nukes, never took on the requisite obligations and treaties, and never owned them for even a split second. This is a Western re-framing of reality
This is a modern fantasy about Ukraine having nukes that never happened, this entire comment was ahistorical. Ukraine never had nukes to give up, never had a chance in hell of keeping the Ukrainian SSR nukes, and the security guarantees that Ukraine received at the time were from Russia and against the encroaching West. Ukrainians at that time were not concerned with Russia invading them but with NATO and western aggression. It was Russia that failed to uphold its security guarantees by allowing the 2014 coup and the NATO takeover. Russia failed Ukraine by not immediately invading and destroying the Western Nazi takeover.
No, it’s the factual reality. The modern state of Ukraine never had nukes to “give up”. Russia always legally owned all of USSR’s nukes. They went from 100% USSR control to 100% Russia control. Not ever for a single moment in history has Ukraine ever owned a nuke
It’s also a fact that in those discussions the Ukrainian representatives main demand for security guarantees was requesting the aid of Russia, not the West. Historical documents prove this. It’s not just an “interpretation of the facts”.
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States aren’t people.
Oh look, another liberal that didn’t pay attention to this conflict until 2022.
You seem to believe what the Western media has been telling you for the past three years: that ebil Putler woke up one day out of nowhere and decided to imperialistically invade Ukraine. Russia didn’t start the war and it didn’t start in 2022 either, it started in 2014 with the US-backed nazi coup in Ukraine. As for your SA comparison, that’s just gross and frankly a strawman argument anyway.
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I did address your points, you said Russia started the war and I said they didn’t.
Then go away. We don’t care to have you around because you are clearly just trolling with the same tired NATO approved talking points we have debunked a thousand times over. You are being willfully ignorant at this point so please fine fuck off back to reddit you will be more comfortable there.
And the trash takes itself out. Good job folks.
Hey how come you only responded to one of the comments when there are several others that tried to address your points? Almost as if you’re a coward and a troll
well they are on lemm.ee so…
I know a lot of posters on this site can be uncharitable, but here is a bit more context that might help you understand where they are coming from
Can you please describe a scenario where Ukraine is able to stop losing territory, re-capture all the territory they want, including Crimea? Remember, we’re years into this and Ukraine’s population has been decimated by emigration and combat losses. If you can’t come up with a plausible path to victory, then continuing to fight only guarantees more death and more lost territory.
“I don’t know anything about the arguments on Hexbear, but am still just going to go ahead and make simplistic assumptions about arguments on Hexbear.”
Gotta be one of my favorite genders
The figurative fist in that analogy is child conscripts being forced at gunpoint into a meatgrinder for the vanity and profit of US-aligned politicians and fascist military leaders, and every time the fist lands they have to go get a new fist because it gets annihilated.
And the war only happened in the first place because they kept taking swings at their neighbor whom they wanted to annex in violation of ceasefire agreements where they promised to stop doing that, while loudly shouting that any day now they’d join a gang and be given nukes, prompting their other neighbor to intercede to stop the existing conflict and prevent them from getting nukes.
It’s more like our stance is based around reality. We also have zero affection for Nazis unlike NATO. Russia is a terrible capitalist state which has more manpower than Ukraine, more weapons than Ukraine and possesses Nuclear Weapons and will not give up Crimea under any circumstance. The war exists solely to benefit the NATO Military Industrial Complex at this point. Ukraine can not afford this war as a people and yet they’re chasing a pipe dream for the sake of American Billionaires.
Additionally, the war is a result of Ukraine not following Minsk 2 agreements and using that time to stall and arm themselves to wage war against the DPR/LPR.
Stop acting like you care about Ukrainians. You just want the Ukrainians to keep fighting so europe and the US dont have to, and can use innocent ukrainians as meat shields. Your scared Russia will keep going after Ukraine and are completely fine with letting Ukrainians die to keep europe safe.
You claim to care about Ukrainians yet your on hexbear of all places arguing with random internet people who just want peace instead of reckoning with the fact that this war only happened because the US and europe pressured Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security garuntees they didnt honor, and literally purposefully antagnoized Russia hoping it would do this. And then they used the war to test their weapons and get rid of backstock without having to use their own soldiers.
You also seem to not care about the Ukrainians who were being slaughtered by Azov before this war even started. A battalion trained by the west and purposefully radicalized to cause chaos in Ukraine.
You reduce an entire war and the mutli decade lead up to it down to “Well do you support Ukraine or Russia” as if either option is somehow the moral choice. Moral people support PEACE. It doesnt matter what flag flies over your head if you can choose to either be shot at or not. you choose to not be shot at.
Would it be nice if we could go back in time and warn Ukraine not to give up its nukes and not to trust the wests garuntees? Yeah. But we cant. We have to deal with the situation we have, and somehow stop the horrific war taking place before even more innocent people die. If thinking that the war should end before Ukraine literally runs out of soldiers to send to die makes me a “Russia supporter” then whatever. Fuck you.
The modern state of Ukraine never had nukes. The Ukrainian SSR held nukes within its territory, but Russia is the legal successor state to the USSR and took on all its debts, obligations, and nuclear weapons. All nations agreed to this. Modern Ukraine was never trusted to have nukes, never took on the requisite obligations and treaties, and never owned them for even a split second. This is a Western re-framing of reality
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This is a modern fantasy about Ukraine having nukes that never happened, this entire comment was ahistorical. Ukraine never had nukes to give up, never had a chance in hell of keeping the Ukrainian SSR nukes, and the security guarantees that Ukraine received at the time were from Russia and against the encroaching West. Ukrainians at that time were not concerned with Russia invading them but with NATO and western aggression. It was Russia that failed to uphold its security guarantees by allowing the 2014 coup and the NATO takeover. Russia failed Ukraine by not immediately invading and destroying the Western Nazi takeover.
Yes, that’s another perspective on the same set of facts
No, it’s the factual reality. The modern state of Ukraine never had nukes to “give up”. Russia always legally owned all of USSR’s nukes. They went from 100% USSR control to 100% Russia control. Not ever for a single moment in history has Ukraine ever owned a nuke
It’s also a fact that in those discussions the Ukrainian representatives main demand for security guarantees was requesting the aid of Russia, not the West. Historical documents prove this. It’s not just an “interpretation of the facts”.
reality is pro-russian by default
Fascist
Ukraine can’t win the war. The longer it goes on, the more of them will die and the more land they will have to surrender.
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