I’d like to thank the mods for leaving conflicting comments up. I’ve seen too many echo chambers going up on lemmy. Appreciate you all. Also appreciate those I don’t agree with for sharing their ideas, calling me out on mine and sometimes changing my mind, and taking the time for discourse. Those who argue in bad faith, have no open mind, and pretend to have empathy, fuck yourself.
All this thread tells me is how little memory people have. Late into Obama’s office, he brokered a deal that would have reduced Iran’s ability to create wmds in exchange for lifting sanctions while giving the rest of the world the ability to monitor them to make sure they actually stop trying to make a wmd. Trump infamously cancelled this deal early into his first run and now people are acting like he’s doing a good job by wanting to attack Iran- Trump created this problem in the first place!
Trump created this problem in the first place!
That’s his whole strategy and always has been. Manufacture a crisis when something doesn’t go right and reduce risk of getting closer to an orange jumpsuit. Ever notice nobody is talking about the Epstein Files now? He always pops ninja smoke. Only his poof of smoke is this giant splatter of shit that makes a mess for everyone to clean up while he escapes. The other big factor of this is that 75 million Americans are happy to clean all that up and ask for more.
Trump created this problem in the first place!
I think it’s good to be absolutely crystal clear on what the problem is. Iran is not building nuclear weapons. They say this themselves, and the entire American intelligence community, as well as the UN’s IAEA agree that they haven’t since 2003. The amount of evidence that Iran is building WMDs is exactly the same as it was for Iraq in the early 2000s (i.e., non-existent). So that’s not the problem.
Huh? what about all those 60% enriched uranium & refusal to let international experts to actually check what they are doing ?
I don’t know man, ask the IAEA or the NSA
Warmongering and unconditional support is bipartisan.
Biden never did anything to fix it, they’re invariably ‘sabotaged by the other side and powerless’, same as with every other issue.
Like when Trump unilaterally ended the missile treaties.
If anything Biden escalated tension with Iran with some aggresive actions.
And anyway Iran never was planning to get nukes.
They are an advanced country and have nuclear energy which is their right.
The scaremongering lies by the genocide state and their big bully friend do not change that.
If anything, I hope they change their mind and start working on a nuke since they invariably get provoked and attacked for no reason.
You don’t need to attack a country killing innocent peasants/people. Kill the king and the criminal organization who manages that piece of dirt (country). But it never happens, because of the goal is clearly a depopulation in all the “kingdoms” until peasants obey and delusionally pay tribute to the criminal organizations who control and kill them.
This is a dumb meme because the whole argument is that if Iran gets nukes then we won’t be able to attack them.
However I do think it’s funny how many of the justifications for the unprovoked attacks on Iran sound exactly like Russian justifications if you just switch a couple names around:
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Iran having nukes is a threat to the US security/Ukraine joining NATO (which would allow them to station nukes there) is a threat to Russian security
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Iran’s government is full of radical Islamists/Ukraine’s government is full of Banderite Nazis
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Iran is firing ordinance off at civilian targets in Israel, as part of their aim to exterminate Jews/Ukraine is firing ordinance off at civilian targets in Donbass, as part of their aim to exterminate Russians.
It’s very silly how all these arguments are accepted as “obvious” and reasonable when it’s our side, but flip the picture and it suddenly it becomes just as “obvious” that those lines of reasoning are not valid. At no point is either Iran or Russia’s perspective seriously considered because they’re the bad guys and we’re the good guys, whether and to what extent those reasons are valid simply flips depending on who’s using them.
Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
I’m confused why people are downvoting you
I assume because the people I’m criticizing don’t have any other response, that’s generally what downvotes mean.
Yeah but Ukraine was aggressive.
Russia is making it into a neutral neighbour akin Canada.BS comparison.
Everything you mention is wrongI present to you Bloomcole, Lemmy’s stupidest user. Give them a hand!
Yeah that’s about the level of argument I’ve come to expect from y’all: “Nuh uh.”
I can refute every lie but why waste time, people probably know.
You’ve got nothing and you know it
Are you sure it’s you who can refute all my points, or is it your girlfriend who goes to another school but is totally real guys, trust me, who can?
o my such a mature comment
You chose this level of discourse, don’t complain about the bed you made.
You’re still perfectly welcome to engage in an intelligent way, as I have, but if you start going, “Uh uh, you’re wrong bc reasons, no you don’t get to know what those reasons are but they totally exist” then I’m gonna bring it down to your level.
I just humored the other guy (or your alt) since it was somewhat civil.
And I can’t go around correcting everyone’s or your many wrong statements, I would be here all day.
The weather is good and I’ll be in the garden with some cocktails.
Can we settle for one? Should easily take less time to post than your last two baity comments ;)
Sigh, OK the first one: “Iran having nukes is a threat to the US security/Ukraine joining NATO (which would allow them to station nukes there) is a threat to Russian security”
1 Iran doesn’t have nukes nor is it rying to, so that’s anxcuse.
It is in no way comparable to NATO (which actually has nukes and is agressive) stationing them close to Moscow with no time to react.
That is a red line acknowledged and stated many times both by Russia and the US who were fully aware they wouldn’t take it.Well, kudos where is due for giving one of your opinions! Helps everyone better understand where you’re coming from. Your point that it is an unfair comparison would have more weight IF the position of Iran not working towards nuclear weapons is correct. (As NATO does have nuclear options, Ukraine joining NATO would be akin to arming Ukraine with nuclear weapons)
In any case this is not the opinion held by the current proponents in the conflict, whether rightly or wrongly, so I believe Objection is entitled to their opinion.
Lmao so you reply to someone else but not to me.
1 Iran doesn’t have nukes nor is it rying to, so that’s anxcuse. It is in no way comparable to NATO (which actually has nukes and is agressive) stationing them close to Moscow with no time to react. That is a red line acknowledged and stated many times both by Russia and the US who were fully aware they wouldn’t take it.
Wait, your objection is that the comparison is too unfavorable to Russia? That’s the opposite of what I thought your problem was, which was that you were pro-war in Iran and anti-Russia, and took exception to the comparison based on that. This misunderstanding could have been avoided if you had, in any way, actually stated your positions from the start instead of acting like a dick for no reason. It also makes your, “everybody already knows why you’re wrong” statement even more ridiculous, considering that we’re having this conversation on .world.
My point is not to argue that these lines of argument are inherently valid or invalid, but to point out the contradiction of people who support US intervention in both Ukraine and Iran categorically accepting these lines in one case and categorically rejecting them in the other. You’ll note that I said:
It’s very silly how all these arguments are accepted as “obvious” and reasonable when it’s our side, but flip the picture and it suddenly it becomes just as “obvious” that those lines of reasoning are not valid. At no point is either Iran or Russia’s perspective seriously considered
Ideally, both perspectives should be considered and the lines of argument should be examined for validity on a case by case basis. However, if someone blindly accepts/rejects them in one case, refusing to even consider the other side’s perspective, then they’re being hypocritical if they don’t do the same in the other.
Again, you completely misinterpreted me and, because you decided to be a dick about it, only now do I have a chance to explain myself.
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The claim is (as always), Iran is on the verge of having nuclear weapons.
The whole idea is that if Iran did get nuclear weapons, it would be too risky to attack them, and that they could use their immunity from being attacked to make the world a much worse place.
I don’t know if we should believe the assessments of their capabilities. Israel has been saying they’re days, weeks or months away from having a nuclear weapon for going on 30 years now. But, AFAIK, nobody has actually said that they currently do have WMD.
Claiming that BS for 30 years:
https://tankie.tube/w/sh7jHCDiBgK74cjdV9wxVbAm I seeing things right? Tabkie.tube being used as a source, in Lemmy.world, and with positive reception, and no negative comments?
How have they been unable to make a nuclear weapon in that time, are they stupid?
According to the UN’s IAEA, as well as the American intelligence community, they haven’t tried building nukes since 2003.
Well, if they had been trying, they probably would have done it. So, the fact they haven’t done it suggests…
They’re not trying.
They are definitely not stupid and their population is far better educated than the US for instance.
Who can’t even produce a hypersonic missile with all the billions they piss away on ‘defense’ LOL
Iran does have them, Russia has 4th gen, even China and India.
Who’s stupid?Does Iran have hypersonic missiles? I thought they were using ballistic missiles which is something else.
They have, haven’t had time to follow the war but I think they said they were going to use a higher class of missile (after another wave of attacks from the entity).
I know they haven’t used their top stuff yet. (what I know until 2 days ago).Iran has said lots of things, what have they actually shown.
I bet you didn’t see videos of the entity getting trashed.
They arrest people making videos and western media doesn’t want to show the results of the Iron Sieve and crappy US AD.And what Iran have shown is restraint despite many unprovoked attacks.
IDC if you believe it. Better for them if the genociders and US are delusional and have their mispaced superiority complex while both sucking ass at fighting.
Even the Houthi hit them from 1000’s km and gets the US ships to fuck off.I have seen clips of Israel being hit. As you are refusing to be specific and blaming this vague “western media” I will assume you are just a propaganda bot.
Israel - what’s with the face?
Can someone fill me in, is there any actually grounds for Israel to attack Iran and why is the United States involved, y’know other than the usual simping for Israel.
No, you’ve pretty much got it.
I know people don’t like to hear this but Iran has been funding terrorism forever now. Hezbolah, Houtis, Hamas - are all funded by Iran. They also been clearly working on nuclear weapons so you don’t need to do complex math to see why Iran is a threat to Israel. If Iran ever gets nukes 100% they’d be aiming them at Israel or cover conventional attacks behind nuclear weapons.
As for US, Israel literally exists because it gives US an in to middle east. It’s only real US ally that aligns with west’s freedoms in the region and is capable of executing military and security operations in the region so obviously is a very important subject.
So in this example Israel is acting as a vassal state to the United States essentially?
Sure if you have very limited understanding of geopolitics. Otherwise its much more complex than that but clearly it’s too difficult to understand for some people here cause nuance is scary.
Not entirely. Their leaders certainly don’t want to continue under the threat of eventual annihilation by Iran. They’re not exactly doing this under duress.
US foreign policy is terrorism, we don’t give a shit about freedom and never did
Because war helps economy. Even tho it makes everyone suffer on both sides and last few wars didnt help economy at all unless you sell weapons.
Also WW2 ended great depression right after unions were legalized and first minimum wage law was signed into law. But yeah it was totally the war that singlehandedly fixed everything.
/sarcasm
Call your rep - demand Israel pay reparations for attacks.
hahaha.
and they are building a “golden dome” with the best possible outcome -> matching Israel’s not working net. lmao
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/169440?singleNo one has said they have a working WMD, but that they are very close to one and that they cannot be allowed to have one because it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
It’s sound logic my guy. Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
HOW LONG have everyone who just happens to be anti-Iran been saying that they ALMOST have a nuke?
How many nukes does Israel have and QUITE illegally?
Iran SHOULD have a nuke as a deterrent against the most violent terrorist nation in the ME.
Because I don’t want the woman hating, gay oppressing, non democratic regime with thousands of working WMDs that I live in to start another fucking war
The whole WMD situation is so shit. Iran cant have a stalemate to prevent attacks on them if they dont have nuclear weapons, so they would be attacked all the time to prevent them from having one. Yet their regime is also the one which is not a friendly to neighbors and has barely any friendly allies therefore it is in the best interests of the rest of the world that they won’t get nuclear weapons. And again, preventing them from having it would allow Israel to bomb them freely.
Dunno how others see it, but no matter what side I try to look at this issue at, this is all looks bad and worse than the previous angle. Sad to acknowledge that Iranians have to go through this. Even if regime fails, I bet it’ll take many decades for Iranians to become a free of regime state.
that they cannot be allowed to have one because it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
Because the West is such a force of good in the Middle East that someone being able to stand up to them is a bad thing?
If that someone is a misogynist, homophobic, murderous regime of religious fanatics hellbent on making the world an even worse place, yes.
Progressive change from domestic conservatism can only happen from internal civil resistance, not bombing the fuck out the country to force a regime change
The US has plenty of domestic conservative policies, do you think the US should be bombed until they become progressive? No, obviously because that’s completely insane and simply an after-the-fact justification for chauvinism.
Bombing worked all fine against Nazis, no? What about Imperial Japan?
You get Israel is the fascist power here that represents the Nazis or imperial Japan here, right?
And no, Iran is not a fascist regime doing lebensraum via violent military expansions, unlike Israel.
If anything, you’re arguing to bomb Israel like what was done to Nazi Germany or Japan, which I still disagree with.
The Bombing of Dresden did not ‘work’ for regime change anyway. Nor were the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the surrender of the Japanese Empire.
Israel, a fascist regime, does target civilians and civilian infrastructure. The Dahiya Doctrine as already been threatened to be used on Iran as their goal regime change to work at the behest of the US/Israels interests in the region.
If you want no nukes in the region, then you should be advocating for the removal of the numerous nukes Israel has.
Iran on the other hand, is a government born out of revolutionary resistance against a brutal dictatorship put in place by western forces (the US), so those western forces killing hundreds of civilians via bombing campaigns won’t do anything other than reinforce the populace’s support for the government despite their opposition to certain domestic policies.
In addition, Iran’s response is both retaliatory and focused on military targets which is the correct way to cripple a fascist regime. Meanwhile, western governments are still not only trading with a fascist regime committing genocide, but actively funding them with military aid
What - bombings absolutely worked despite being you know evil and brutal. Ask any historian.
Didn’t realize the US is planning to invade Florida.
America?
And how is that better than the actively genocidal regime of religious fanatics actively making the world an even worse place the West is supporting? Iran makes the world a better place by opposing Israel, irrespective of their other actions, and I don’t want that one holdout of resistance to be crushed by the West and their rabid dog. If nukes are what it takes for that, so be it.
Iran, Hamas, and Ansarallah are basically the only checks on Israeli aggression, and the same libs who opposed any attempt to exert electoral pressure to cut their arms shipments are now salivating over the thought of clearing out Israel’s enemies such that they would have no obstacles to rolling out the gas chambers.
Anyone but the Jews, amirite? Go Iran! No human rights for citizens!
Get out of here with your hasbara shit. This isn’t about Jews and you know it.
No. I don’t know that. You should Google antisemitism in 2025, and give me one reason to take you in good faith. Ffs you’re supporting the Islamic Republic. Are you that asphyxiated from smelling your own farts? Its the fucking Islamic Republic. These are not good people. If you cared about fucking people, you want to see the people of Iran out from under their tyranny. You’re disingenuous and full of shit.
If you cared about fucking people, you want to see the people of Iran out from under their tyranny.
I don’t think anyone is the good guy. But I certainly don’t want a fanatical religious regimes with nukes.
Funny that I can’t tell if you’re talking about the US or not
Look it has to be the US, the US is the only nation who has shown themselves to be untrustable with nuclear wepons, not only being the only nation to drop them and have them detonate in a war, but also during the cold war accidentaly dropping them all over and by some stroke of luck while merphy was sleeping none of them went off even when the safties where not engaged.
If you think the US is anywhere near Iran, you need to go outside and touch grass. The President is not even religious himself.
We’re getting there we’re getting there. The president doesn’t need to believe in anything but filling his pockets to be a prime religious leader. I don’t think most cult leaders believe what they tell their followers, do you?
Trump enacts or supports a great lot of whatever the US fundies want. Women’s rights in the US don’t mean a lot now and will mean a whole lot less going forward, and a lot of that is carried by religion. I told my American friend in Januari not to panic, she still had time to get out, they would not turn the US into Iran in a month or two.
Things are going down that road faster than I believed and I am relieved to know she has been able to get out of the US today.
What I’m saying is that Trump doesn’t even pretend to be religious. The Christians that vote for him don’t think he is either. It’s purely transactional, he gets their vote, he puts policies in place that they like.
You must not have seen much of the world if you think US women rights are bad in the US. Outside of the abortion issue, I don’t see how the current administration has made any moves to curtail women rights. The states might be doing some shit, but if their constitution allows it, and the people living in the state voted and keep voting for the people these laws then what can I tell you? That’s democracy baby.
As far as I can tell women in the US are really second class citizens, who can -for the moment - still vote and own property , but those things are being dicussed as stuff to remove by the conservatives in power. The anti -trans measures taken are a direct attack on women who now face the threat of having to prove they’re “real” women whenever some creep feels like getting them to strip or doesn’t like them competing in sports or going to the toilet. After abortion, contraception is now on the table to be removed.
You must not be living in the real world to think that women in the US are ok under the current regime. Sure you can compare with Iran or Afghanistan, but those seem to be the great examples to follow for the conservative evangelicals.
I suspect Iran will change soonish, Afghanistan… is taking things further down the road to oblivion every day.
We already have the fanatical religious regime with nukes, Iran having nukes (which, by the way, is not in any way confirmed) would simply counterbalance that. And either way, if Iran is so close to making nukes, then there’s already no time to prevent them from making one using military force. The only way to prevent this (again, very hypothetical) possibility was always diplomacy, which would require the West to not shit all over Iran like they’ve been doing for decades.
True on your first point, but their religion aligns better with liberal values so they get a pass. But excellent point.
There is a way to stop them, Israel is doing it. You kill all their scientists, generals and leadership and the facilities where this is being developed.
I don’t defend Israel actions in Gaza, but I think their actions towards Iran are very much justified in the grand scheme of things. Do I wish we could solve this without death and destruction? yes, but I also don’t trust that Iran will act in good faith and will stop developing the weapons even if they pretend to reach a diplomatic solution. The only way to stop them is to defeat them in such a way that they cannot recover.
“Liberal values” like having an explicitly religious/ethnic state, not having due process, having second class citizens, not respecting international law, etc. Yup. Sounds liberal to me. Maybe I don’t remember hewbrew school too well but I don’t think this was covered.
I did say “aligns better” not perfectly. I’m not defending them anyways, im just saying if I have to choose between one or the other, I know which one I prefer.
The one committing genocide?
How many nukes do you think Israel, an apartheid ethnosupremacist state committing genocide as we speak, has?
Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
Yeah, fuck the US, why are people defending it?
Very original comment. Move to Iran then.
Real original comment. YOU move to Iran.
More original than, “If you don’t like the US, why don’t you move to [country the US fucked up]?”
Odd that your solution to criticism of place they (might) live is move to another place. I mean that kind of head in the sand thinking and blind naitonalism has never gone wrong ever
It’s because it’s the third person making the same comment that I already addressed twice. I’m not gonna keep repeating myself.
You addressed it in a stupid way, and you clearly are gonna keep repeating yourself
That does not change its nationalism, and reaking of american exceptionalism
Not my fault you left yourself wide open.
People who don’t like Murica should move to Iran like you’re going to join the army today to personally fight the war that you support right? You’re not just being an armchair general, right? You’re gonna actually get on that ship and invade Iran, right?
Do you apply that same logic to Russia?
I’m applying your own logic to yourself and apparently the implied answer is “if others won’t do it then why should I”. Which circles back to you. Since you’re not going to invade Iran personally you don’t get to challenge others to do things you don’t intend to do. Not that I see anyone here challenging you to invade or move to Russia anyway.
Good point. That being said I’m very consistent in my stance if you look at other comments I never said America should get more involved in this but rather the opposite. Let both countries solve it on their own. Meaning also not fund Israel. But if I have to choose between one or the other, I will choose Israel ever day.
WHY? Israel has been a violent terrorist country for its entire existence and guess what? THEY FUCKING HATE GAYS AND WOMEN.
I agree and fucking hate the regime. Can’t wait for them to live free.
But, Jon Stewart got through to me the other day with video clips of Netanyahu claiming the nukes were almost built over and over for 15 years. I’m anti war and and don’t want another Iraq under false pretense. I would love for the people to get their democracy back without casualty.
I believe it’s the reason the West is in Israel. And that it’s probably only under control bc of that. But questioning the legitimacy of there being any urgency.
Does no one remember STUXNET? We’ve been sabotaging their efforts to create a nuke for a long time.
Absolutely NOBODY involved in this escalation gives one single fuck AT ALL about liberating the Iranian people. None. Nobody. Zilch. Zero. This is PURELY a capitalist venture to enrich assholes and fuel the power of radical fascists. There is ZERO benefit to ANYONE else. None. Zilch. Zero.
I don’t disagree with you. And I hate war. And I know this will kill civilians, many more than a civic upheaval.
But the citizens do not want the IR. Hopefully silver lining is western colonial investment in rebuilding infrastructure (obvi for a price and a vig) with more democratic elections, that get them on a path back to the West. Is oil + oligarchy a problem? No shit. Resources should be nationalized and socialized across the globe, different problem.
Will there be pain during transition to democracy, yes. Will there be democracy without any regime change, unfortunately not.
I’m not saying anything happening is good. But I would be lying to say I wouldn’t enjoy watching their leadership burned to the ground. I know my Persian friends feel the same.
Yeah there’s nothing that Americans love more than obliterating the hell out of foreign countries and then having to pay for rebuilding it all
claiming the nukes were almost built over and over for 15 years
I don’t understand this argument tho. Why can’t it be true? it takes time to enrich uranium like that and it’s actually possible that it took Iran 15 years to get here especially with so much opposition, no? Do you remember Stuxnet - with this amount of sabotage it’s totally possible it would take 15 or many more years to get to proper enrichment.
Each preso was literally, “they’re weeks away” … Watch the clip
It was totally possible that Iraq had WMDs, but we had fuck all for proof then and it turned out to be a lie. We’ve got fuck all for proof now and the same motives as before, there’s absolutely no reason to give the US and our allies the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t think this meme is defending the US.
The US is democratic. Not that I think current US policy hates women or gays, but if it did and the policy was enacted by a democratically elected government that campaigned on it then what you are seeing is simply the people’s will at work.
The US has literally never been a democracy, it’s never even been a particularly good representative republic. We went from only allowing white landowning men to vote, to only allowing men to vote, to ostensibly allowing everyone to vote but actually suppressing voting access and manipulating representation via gerrymandering to deliberately minimize the impact of minority representation. Just like we did with slavery, we didn’t actually fix the problem we just got better at hiding it.
The people who invented democracy and gave it a name and systemized for the first time also did not allow everyone to vote. All that matters for a democracy is that whatever it defines as citizens are involved in the decisions. Even today very few believe in actual universal suffrage because that would necessarily mean that non citizens get to vote. You won’t find popular support for that so therefore we are democratically oppressing some people. And if you argue that this means that we aren’t a democracy then there isn’t a single democracy in the world and there has never been one, and that my friend I call intellectual dishonesty.
Because nowhere in the definition of democracy is universal suffrage included. This is, once more, a modern moral judgement of what a democracy ought to be. Democracy is a system, not an ideology.
That’s a whole lot of words just to avoid admitting that I’m right lol, try harder patriot
Real no true communism vibes. Anarchist or ML? How about you spend more time explaining exactly how a stateless society looks like instead, maybe one day you’ll figure it out. I mean chimps beat you to the punch already but hey who knows right?!
“No true communism” in the sense that a stateless post-capitalist organizational structure has never been allowed to exist on a large scale, sure. Communist regimes have existed and have done a lot of good. You however have accomplished nothing and are well on your way to continuing your unbroken streak for life.
That is not how democracy works. You can not democratically oppress people. Was Nazi Germany a democracy then?
Democracy is rule of the majority. The majority can vote to oppress a minority; it’s how democracy has always worked.
The US had almost 200 years of being a democracy with blacks being oppressed democratically by the majority, just to give you an example.
I don’t know where the notion that democracy is inclusive came from, but everyone who holds that view needs to read a history book. You can make the moral judgement that democracy ought to be inclusive, but that does not mean that democracy is so by design, practice or even inception. That’s more of a modern moral judgement than a feature of democracy.
Majority rule is not the same as democracy. I think you are the one in need of some reading.
Majority rule however is a fundamental part of democracy. It’s why so many claim the electoral college is undemocratic (which it is with good cause). I gave a perfectly valid example of popularly backed oppression of a minority by a majority in a democratic country so instead of saying “no-no you’re wrong” debate the issue with actual arguments. Attacking me is not an argument.
Democratic, when the leader did not get the majority of elegable votes. DEMOCRACY when studies show the government action has 0 corilation to the popular will … wow much democracy
You’re losing me here…
Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
Strawman me harder daddy
Whatever you think of the Iranian government, (they’re not good, but also blame the US for helping put them there in the first place) there is only one country in history that has ever used nuclear weapons and they used it on civilian populations, twice. That same country has been invading one country or another for most of it’s history, devastating civilians in the process all for the sake of greed. THAT is the country that is policing the world, deciding who’s too “dangerous” to have what is apparently the only deterrent to it’s routine aggression.
The only way to not recognize this for what it is is to have never stopped to think about the American exceptionalism propaganda you’ve been fed your entire life. We’re not the good guys. Even if we want to see a better government in these countries, the US is more likely to impede that and install a different dictator than they are to usher in a proper democracy. See: Vietnam, Korea, most of Latin America, various post-soviet countries, various countries in the middle east, others that I’m probably not thinking of and… oh right: IRAN!
Lets not forget, the USA has been at war for BY FAR the majority of its life, I think but dont quote me on this the US has only been at peace for 2 years
Yeah it’s kind of hard to figure out because there are so many things that aren’t major wars we learn all about. When I thought about this before, even if you just count the big ones, the US hasn’t been at peace for more than 20 years at a time. We’ve been at war for over 80% of my life. It’s crazy how normal it feels despite that. We are super sheltered from the consequences of all of this.
I have repeatedly stated that I don’t think there are any good guys here. But there are friends and there are enemies and they are clearly enemies so I don’t want them with nukes, simple as.
Alright grand dad, let’s take you to bed.
Because the current intelligence says they’re not close to one. Unless a report came out that I missed?
Don’t bother. This site seems to be about 50% propaganda accounts and 50% teenagers who have no understanding of geopolitics and are convinced that anyone against Israel are the good guys. Absolutely no understanding as to why it’s desirable to prevent a North Korea situation in the middle east.
Wrong. Iran arent good guys; Israel is a psychotically violent terrorist nation bent on annihilation of all neighboring countries. How many countries has Israel attacked? Have many have Iran attacked? Who attacked first? Why is trump INISISTENT upon wae with Iran even though his own spies confirmed there was no nuke program in Iran? Why did he destroy the treaty we had with them the first term?
Perhaps you should consider that YOU are the simp.
It’s really hard to believe that so many people defend Hamas and Iran’s government here. I’m convinced all of them are bots or just literal idiots.
Feel free to go back to reddit, much friendlier towards patriot brainrot lol
Anyone against shitrahell is a good guy.
And you have no business preventing or say in what’s desirable.
Attacking Iranian civilians -again- and you’re trying to justify that.
Who’s the propaganda account?
It’s hard to believe there’s so much apologetics for Iran here. But hey, there are entire swaths of people saying Hamas are “freedom fighters”.
I’m tempted of blocking all politic communities on lemmy but I’m not letting these crazies hijack yet another reddit alternative.
Hamas are the resistance in occupied Gaza. Resistance will always be labelled “terrorism” by the occupying force. Or would you disagree that the résistance in France under Nazi Germany occupation was preceived drastically different depending on which side you were on?
And as for Iran, I think that if you’d be interested in helping them get over their regime, it has to come from within. Because if we look at Afghanistan, beside years of suffering, what has improved thanks to the western intervention?
Show me another resistance group that invaded, kidnapped, tortured and murdered hundreds of concert goers. I’ll wait, go on.
Feel free to go back to reddit, much friendlier towards patriot brainrot lol
Political tribalism has destroyed their minds and turned them into reactionaries. Their takes are whatever is opposite to the other teams take, and they’ll die on that hill if they have to, even if it’s not logical, even if the opposite team is right.
It’s a new era of underdog propaganda and it’s so effective.
I never thought I’d actually see people cheer for Hamas ever. I’ve been rooting for Palestine since before most of these commenters were even born and Hamas has always been incredibly evil organization that somehow managed to get support through the biggest terror act of this decade. Insanity.
LOL you have been claiming that for 30 years hasbara boy:
https://tankie.tube/w/sh7jHCDiBgK74cjdV9wxVb
Iraq, after the Gulf War, was never found by the IAEA to be in possession of or active production of uranium in excess of 20% target enrichment. That’s a level consistent with civilian-only use.
The IAEA has repeatedly confirmed Iran has enriched uranium to 60% in increasingly large quantities. Iran has also admitted it, and provides nebulous excuses when pressed about it. There is zero modern civilian purpose for that level of enrichment, and it doesn’t take much time to refine from 60% to 85% for high yield weapons grade uranium. Days to months, not years.
Assessments have concluded that Iran does not yet have a functional nuclear weapon, but once they do possess one, now your hands are tied. The only winning move is a pre-emptive strike to prevent nuclear proliferation. Talks are meaningless and not in good faith - Iran sees Israel as a mortal enemy that already has nuclear weapons. Like with North Korea, Iran’s nuclear proliferation was used as an indefinite negotiating tool and never intended to be off the table. Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons. If they think the US or Israel would wage war to topple the Iranian state, wouldn’t those countries have done it already over the past 50 years? Iran’s leadership has, over and over, declared their intent to destroy Israel. They provide weapons and support for proxy groups fighting Israel. Who’s to say they wouldn’t deliver a nuclear device to a proxy group that sneaks it into Tel Aviv and detonates it, then denies responsibility?
Should have dunked on North Korea before they completed their bomb too, but I guess unlike Iran, their regional partner China wasn’t already preoccupied losing another war.
Days to months, not years.
If Iran is days to months away from a nuclear bomb, then for all intents and purposes they already have a nuclear bomb. The fact they don’t have a nuclear bomb already despite having 60% enriched uranium for years can only mean that they simply don’t want a nuclear bomb.
The only winning move is a pre-emptive strike to prevent nuclear proliferation.
The only winning move is diplomacy to prevent nuclear proliferation, aka JOCPA. I wonder how that went. Also I find claims that Iran is so close to a nuclear bomb very doubtful given that they’ve been around for literal decades.
they don’t want a bomb
Then why the fuck are they enriching uranium beyond what’s necessary for energy purposes?
To point to if and when America wants to invade? There’s a difference between “yo we can make a nuclear bomb so play nice” and actually making a nuclear bomb. Also because they have literally no reason to not enrich uranium given that they’re already sanctioned to hell and back, so they might as well go the potentially nuclear-powered pariah route.
No, days to months away from weapons grade enriched uranium if they so chose. If you don’t trust what the International Atomic Energy Agency has to say about nuclear proliferation from on-site assessments, I guess there’s no convincing you of anything else.
Sooo they haven’t “so chosen” for years now, why would they suddenly “now so choose”?
I mean, Russia “hadn’t chosen” to invade Ukraine for decades, and then they did. Things can, and in fact do change.
And it’s not like the past year has been super calm in the region. Israel (who they would almost certainly be using the nukes on) has been popping off. So that seems like a pretty good reason to “now so choose” that wasn’t the case a decade ago (to the same degree).
Russia has been consistently invading Ukraine since 2014. In 2022 they escalated. Before that they attacked Georgia, and got a madman into power through orchestrating terrorist attacks.
Iran has been consistently “a year away from nukes” since 92’ according to Israel. Nothing changed, just the fact that as you said Israel has been “popping off” and murdering and destabilizing every country around them.
I was referring to 2014 when I said that, but it’s neither here nor there. Especially since it’s not like Iran hasn’t been actively shooting missiles at Israel for decades.
And I’m not stan-ing for Israel here. I agree that their behavior has been terrible and has been doing terrible things to their neighbors. But that is in fact something that has changed that could push Iran towards a nuclear option. And as bad as Israel is being, it would still be very very bad if Iran nukes them.
Yes, it would be bad. But Iran has been cooperating so far until Trump fucked everything up. That’s the thing that changed - letting Israel run rampant, killing everyone they want without a peep (or just strongly worded letters). There is no difference between Iran cooperating and having nuclear power plants, and Iran not cooperating, trying to make nukes. They were attacked because “Israel could”, not because there was danger of them getting a nuclear bomb.
It is a manufactured casus beli to hit a sovereign state, murder its military brass, politicians and scientists. It is literally the same logic that Russia used against Ukraine - and equally as nonsensical as it was then - the “they were going to attack me and so I attacked them” excuse.
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Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons. If they think the US or Israel would wage war to topple the Iranian state, wouldn’t those countries have done it already over the past 50 years?
Shills straight up denying not just reality but the events they’re spewing propaganda about. Gotta love the gung ho 15 year old attitude by people who have managed to lose every engagement they had in Asia since 1945 with even that mostly because they didn’t have to worry about the other axis countries. Ever thank China and USSR fot taking care of Japan on the mainland while you were busy drowning and flapping about in the Pacific? No, you recruited Unit 731 criminals instead.
Anyway reminder for delulu revisionists like you, you tried to dunk on Korea already back when “their regional partner” was vastly weaker than now and failed miserably. You’d have tried it if failing again wasn’t inevitable. That’s why NK has nukes, not because you supposedly allowed them to have them or were neglectful lmao.
Iran also does not have a plausible defense purpose for nuclear weapons
Hmm, that’s an interesting argument, but I read something recently that challenges that idea, it was some user who said something like, uhh, “once they do possess one, now your hands are tied.”
Warmongering psycho can’t even keep their arguments straight without self-contradicting in the same paragraph.
How anybody can take these insane positions so casually is beyond my comprehension. No one like you should ever have a voice in politics
Oh good, someone made a second one of these inane memes
They’re right, cope
they literally are attacking russia through ukraine though.
i expect them to somehow attack china soon too.
That kind of blatant mischaracterization of the Russian invasion of Ukraine is exactly why people call you guys Tankies.
They’re right, cope
That lack of understanding of politics outside of the western propaganda machine is why people call you guys Libs. You are usually the baddies.
Russia occupying Crimea or attacking Kyiv is not “propaganda” it is material, verifiable fact. If your position is “those are already part of Russia” then fuck you.
my brother in christ, you have been doing worse for decades.
i know you guys arent tought world history, but just give it a little bit of a looking.
Whataboutism isn’t an argument.
whataboutism is a great way to shut down argument though.
i dont need to think about any context that would incriminate my country. whataboutism.
Acting like constantly expanding NATO to Russia’s border and trying to get an upper hand for a possible first strike in a nuclear exchange by stationing Murican nukes there is “west defending from possible eastern aggression” while trying to justify one more “defensive preemptive strike” in the Middle East because Eglin cheeto eaters can’t ever be consistent. Pipe down and stay in your hemisphere you trash heap unless you want to explain how Crimea somehow didn’t have a valid referendum because Murican State Department doesn’t like the results as if they know anything about Crimea (must be magic how Russia doesn’t need to do much policing in an area that supposedly doesn’t really want to belong to Russia, no resistance to “occupation” at all) but Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, Puerto Rico, Guantanamo in Cuba, the Virgin Islands are parts of the USA. Or how the USA is justified invading the entire Caribbean for a whole century without any foreign superpower trying to put nukes there, just because the US is an imperialist entity into constant landgrabs.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
What’s this btw? Is it the US directly interfering in Ukrainian politics to set up their puppets for over 10 years? I bet you shills want everyone to forget about that. Gtfo lol.
