No one has said they have a working WMD, but that they are very close to one and that they cannot be allowed to have one because it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
It’s sound logic my guy. Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
Because I don’t want the woman hating, gay oppressing, non democratic regime with thousands of working WMDs that I live in to start another fucking war
Progressive change from domestic conservatism can only happen from internal civil resistance, not bombing the fuck out the country to force a regime change
The US has plenty of domestic conservative policies, do you think the US should be bombed until they become progressive? No, obviously because that’s completely insane and simply an after-the-fact justification for chauvinism.
Israel, a fascist regime, does target civilians and civilian infrastructure. The Dahiya Doctrine as already been threatened to be used on Iran as their goal regime change to work at the behest of the US/Israels interests in the region.
If you want no nukes in the region, then you should be advocating for the removal of the numerous nukes Israel has.
Iran on the other hand, is a government born out of revolutionary resistance against a brutal dictatorship put in place by western forces (the US), so those western forces killing hundreds of civilians via bombing campaigns won’t do anything other than reinforce the populace’s support for the government despite their opposition to certain domestic policies.
In addition, Iran’s response is both retaliatory and focused on militarytargets which is the correct way to cripple a fascist regime. Meanwhile, western governments are still not only trading with a fascist regime committing genocide, but actively funding them with military aid
And how is that better than the actively genocidal regime of religious fanatics actively making the world an even worse place the West is supporting? Iran makes the world a better place by opposing Israel, irrespective of their other actions, and I don’t want that one holdout of resistance to be crushed by the West and their rabid dog. If nukes are what it takes for that, so be it.
Iran, Hamas, and Ansarallah are basically the only checks on Israeli aggression, and the same libs who opposed any attempt to exert electoral pressure to cut their arms shipments are now salivating over the thought of clearing out Israel’s enemies such that they would have no obstacles to rolling out the gas chambers.
No. I don’t know that. You should Google antisemitism in 2025, and give me one reason to take you in good faith. Ffs you’re supporting the Islamic Republic. Are you that asphyxiated from smelling your own farts? Its the fucking Islamic Republic. These are not good people. If you cared about fucking people, you want to see the people of Iran out from under their tyranny. You’re disingenuous and full of shit.
Look it has to be the US, the US is the only nation who has shown themselves to be untrustable with nuclear wepons, not only being the only nation to drop them and have them detonate in a war, but also during the cold war accidentaly dropping them all over and by some stroke of luck while merphy was sleeping none of them went off even when the safties where not engaged.
We’re getting there we’re getting there. The president doesn’t need to believe in anything but filling his pockets to be a prime religious leader. I don’t think most cult leaders believe what they tell their followers, do you?
Trump enacts or supports a great lot of whatever the US fundies want. Women’s rights in the US don’t mean a lot now and will mean a whole lot less going forward, and a lot of that is carried by religion. I told my American friend in Januari not to panic, she still had time to get out, they would not turn the US into Iran in a month or two.
Things are going down that road faster than I believed and I am relieved to know she has been able to get out of the US today.
What I’m saying is that Trump doesn’t even pretend to be religious. The Christians that vote for him don’t think he is either. It’s purely transactional, he gets their vote, he puts policies in place that they like.
You must not have seen much of the world if you think US women rights are bad in the US. Outside of the abortion issue, I don’t see how the current administration has made any moves to curtail women rights. The states might be doing some shit, but if their constitution allows it, and the people living in the state voted and keep voting for the people these laws then what can I tell you? That’s democracy baby.
As far as I can tell women in the US are really second class citizens, who can -for the moment - still vote and own property , but those things are being dicussed as stuff to remove by the conservatives in power. The anti -trans measures taken are a direct attack on women who now face the threat of having to prove they’re “real” women whenever some creep feels like getting them to strip or doesn’t like them competing in sports or going to the toilet. After abortion, contraception is now on the table to be removed.
You must not be living in the real world to think that women in the US are ok under the current regime. Sure you can compare with Iran or Afghanistan, but those seem to be the great examples to follow for the conservative evangelicals.
I suspect Iran will change soonish, Afghanistan… is taking things further down the road to oblivion every day.
You can’t make claims like these without proof. So please show me proof that there is serious discussions in legislative circles to pass laws to that effect. But even then unless those laws are passed, my statement still stands.
On to the transgender, and more specifically transwomen issue.
Transwomen have pretty much the same rights as anyone else. I’m not gonna engage in the mental gymnastics of that particular topic so I won’t respond to replies but I’ll lay out my opinion on the matter even though I know that I’m wasting my time and I’ll get labeled transphobic: transwomen enjoy all the rights afforded to them by our laws as they are afforded to everyone else. What they do not have right now is widespread absolute social acceptance. I’ll posit that it is simply not desirable to force that through the state. To put it simply, whether transwomen are allowed to play in women’s sports or not should not be up to the government but rather the people participating in the sport, and in the same way, whether transwomen are allowed in women’s bathrooms or not should be up to the women that use the bathroom. Now that second one has its fair share of issues so I understand why it’s not really a solution. I think the real best solution is to not have gendered bathrooms at all, and the realistic solution is to be self aware and use the bathroom of the gender you most resemble.
I also think that no amount of rhetoric will convince the broad population that transwomen are the same as women, especially since it requires the aforementioned mental gymnastics to reach that conclusion.
We already have the fanatical religious regime with nukes, Iran having nukes (which, by the way, is not in any way confirmed) would simply counterbalance that. And either way, if Iran is so close to making nukes, then there’s already no time to prevent them from making one using military force. The only way to prevent this (again, very hypothetical) possibility was always diplomacy, which would require the West to not shit all over Iran like they’ve been doing for decades.
True on your first point, but their religion aligns better with liberal values so they get a pass. But excellent point.
There is a way to stop them, Israel is doing it. You kill all their scientists, generals and leadership and the facilities where this is being developed.
I don’t defend Israel actions in Gaza, but I think their actions towards Iran are very much justified in the grand scheme of things. Do I wish we could solve this without death and destruction? yes, but I also don’t trust that Iran will act in good faith and will stop developing the weapons even if they pretend to reach a diplomatic solution. The only way to stop them is to defeat them in such a way that they cannot recover.
“Liberal values” like having an explicitly religious/ethnic state, not having due process, having second class citizens, not respecting international law, etc. Yup. Sounds liberal to me. Maybe I don’t remember hewbrew school too well but I don’t think this was covered.
I did say “aligns better” not perfectly. I’m not defending them anyways, im just saying if I have to choose between one or the other, I know which one I prefer.
The whole WMD situation is so shit. Iran cant have a stalemate to prevent attacks on them if they dont have nuclear weapons, so they would be attacked all the time to prevent them from having one. Yet their regime is also the one which is not a friendly to neighbors and has barely any friendly allies therefore it is in the best interests of the rest of the world that they won’t get nuclear weapons. And again, preventing them from having it would allow Israel to bomb them freely.
Dunno how others see it, but no matter what side I try to look at this issue at, this is all looks bad and worse than the previous angle. Sad to acknowledge that Iranians have to go through this. Even if regime fails, I bet it’ll take many decades for Iranians to become a free of regime state.
Odd that your solution to criticism of place they (might) live is move to another place. I mean that kind of head in the sand thinking and blind naitonalism has never gone wrong ever
People who don’t like Murica should move to Iran like you’re going to join the army today to personally fight the war that you support right? You’re not just being an armchair general, right? You’re gonna actually get on that ship and invade Iran, right?
I’m applying your own logic to yourself and apparently the implied answer is “if others won’t do it then why should I”. Which circles back to you. Since you’re not going to invade Iran personally you don’t get to challenge others to do things you don’t intend to do. Not that I see anyone here challenging you to invade or move to Russia anyway.
Good point. That being said I’m very consistent in my stance if you look at other comments I never said America should get more involved in this but rather the opposite. Let both countries solve it on their own. Meaning also not fund Israel. But if I have to choose between one or the other, I will choose Israel ever day.
It’s the perspective of “I prefer Israel over Iran while white American” but switch that to being Palestinian and I doubt they’d remain pro-Israel. Not that white Americans are loved exactly because Israelis are genocidal racists and supremacists to a disgustingly high percentage, they just don’t commit (many) crimes against US citizens. Just occasionally kill pro-Palestinian US activists and attack US ships like SS Liberty to do a false flag against Egypt.
I agree and fucking hate the regime. Can’t wait for them to live free.
But, Jon Stewart got through to me the other day with video clips of Netanyahu claiming the nukes were almost built over and over for 15 years. I’m anti war and and don’t want another Iraq under false pretense. I would love for the people to get their democracy back without casualty.
I believe it’s the reason the West is in Israel. And that it’s probably only under control bc of that. But questioning the legitimacy of there being any urgency.
Absolutely NOBODY involved in this escalation gives one single fuck AT ALL about liberating the Iranian people. None. Nobody. Zilch. Zero.
This is PURELY a capitalist venture to enrich assholes and fuel the power of radical fascists. There is ZERO benefit to ANYONE else. None. Zilch. Zero.
I don’t disagree with you. And I hate war. And I know this will kill civilians, many more than a civic upheaval.
But the citizens do not want the IR. Hopefully silver lining is western colonial investment in rebuilding infrastructure (obvi for a price and a vig) with more democratic elections, that get them on a path back to the West. Is oil + oligarchy a problem? No shit. Resources should be nationalized and socialized across the globe, different problem.
Will there be pain during transition to democracy, yes. Will there be democracy without any regime change, unfortunately not.
I’m not saying anything happening is good. But I would be lying to say I wouldn’t enjoy watching their leadership burned to the ground. I know my Persian friends feel the same.
claiming the nukes were almost built over and over for 15 years
I don’t understand this argument tho. Why can’t it be true? it takes time to enrich uranium like that and it’s actually possible that it took Iran 15 years to get here especially with so much opposition, no? Do you remember Stuxnet - with this amount of sabotage it’s totally possible it would take 15 or many more years to get to proper enrichment.
It was totally possible that Iraq had WMDs, but we had fuck all for proof then and it turned out to be a lie. We’ve got fuck all for proof now and the same motives as before, there’s absolutely no reason to give the US and our allies the benefit of the doubt.
The US is democratic. Not that I think current US policy hates women or gays, but if it did and the policy was enacted by a democratically elected government that campaigned on it then what you are seeing is simply the people’s will at work.
The US has literally never been a democracy, it’s never even been a particularly good representative republic. We went from only allowing white landowning men to vote, to only allowing men to vote, to ostensibly allowing everyone to vote but actually suppressing voting access and manipulating representation via gerrymandering to deliberately minimize the impact of minority representation. Just like we did with slavery, we didn’t actually fix the problem we just got better at hiding it.
The people who invented democracy and gave it a name and systemized for the first time also did not allow everyone to vote. All that matters for a democracy is that whatever it defines as citizens are involved in the decisions. Even today very few believe in actual universal suffrage because that would necessarily mean that non citizens get to vote. You won’t find popular support for that so therefore we are democratically oppressing some people. And if you argue that this means that we aren’t a democracy then there isn’t a single democracy in the world and there has never been one, and that my friend I call intellectual dishonesty.
Because nowhere in the definition of democracy is universal suffrage included. This is, once more, a modern moral judgement of what a democracy ought to be. Democracy is a system, not an ideology.
Real no true communism vibes. Anarchist or ML? How about you spend more time explaining exactly how a stateless society looks like instead, maybe one day you’ll figure it out. I mean chimps beat you to the punch already but hey who knows right?!
“No true communism” in the sense that a stateless post-capitalist organizational structure has never been allowed to exist on a large scale, sure. Communist regimes have existed and have done a lot of good. You however have accomplished nothing and are well on your way to continuing your unbroken streak for life.
Nice unnecessary personal attack there at the end, it really drives the point across. Are you any closer to explaining what a stateless society looks like though? Keep at it! Don’t let those pesky primates dissuade you!
Democracy is rule of the majority. The majority can vote to oppress a minority; it’s how democracy has always worked.
The US had almost 200 years of being a democracy with blacks being oppressed democratically by the majority, just to give you an example.
I don’t know where the notion that democracy is inclusive came from, but everyone who holds that view needs to read a history book. You can make the moral judgement that democracy ought to be inclusive, but that does not mean that democracy is so by design, practice or even inception. That’s more of a modern moral judgement than a feature of democracy.
Majority rule however is a fundamental part of democracy. It’s why so many claim the electoral college is undemocratic (which it is with good cause). I gave a perfectly valid example of popularly backed oppression of a minority by a majority in a democratic country so instead of saying “no-no you’re wrong” debate the issue with actual arguments. Attacking me is not an argument.
Democratic, when the leader did not get the majority of elegable votes. DEMOCRACY when studies show the government action has 0 corilation to the popular will … wow much democracy
Whatever you think of the Iranian government, (they’re not good, but also blame the US for helping put them there in the first place) there is only one country in history that has ever used nuclear weapons and they used it on civilian populations, twice. That same country has been invading one country or another for most of it’s history, devastating civilians in the process all for the sake of greed. THAT is the country that is policing the world, deciding who’s too “dangerous” to have what is apparently the only deterrent to it’s routine aggression.
The only way to not recognize this for what it is is to have never stopped to think about the American exceptionalism propaganda you’ve been fed your entire life. We’re not the good guys. Even if we want to see a better government in these countries, the US is more likely to impede that and install a different dictator than they are to usher in a proper democracy. See: Vietnam, Korea, most of Latin America, various post-soviet countries, various countries in the middle east, others that I’m probably not thinking of and… oh right: IRAN!
Lets not forget, the USA has been at war for BY FAR the majority of its life, I think but dont quote me on this the US has only been at peace for 2 years
Yeah it’s kind of hard to figure out because there are so many things that aren’t major wars we learn all about. When I thought about this before, even if you just count the big ones, the US hasn’t been at peace for more than 20 years at a time. We’ve been at war for over 80% of my life. It’s crazy how normal it feels despite that. We are super sheltered from the consequences of all of this.
I have repeatedly stated that I don’t think there are any good guys here. But there are friends and there are enemies and they are clearly enemies so I don’t want them with nukes, simple as.
Don’t bother. This site seems to be about 50% propaganda accounts and 50% teenagers who have no understanding of geopolitics and are convinced that anyone against Israel are the good guys. Absolutely no understanding as to why it’s desirable to prevent a North Korea situation in the middle east.
Wrong. Iran arent good guys; Israel is a psychotically violent terrorist nation bent on annihilation of all neighboring countries.
How many countries has Israel attacked? Have many have Iran attacked? Who attacked first? Why is trump INISISTENT upon wae with Iran even though his own spies confirmed there was no nuke program in Iran? Why did he destroy the treaty we had with them the first term?
Perhaps you should consider that YOU are the simp.
Anyone against shitrahell is a good guy.
And you have no business preventing or say in what’s desirable.
Attacking Iranian civilians -again- and you’re trying to justify that.
Who’s the propaganda account?
Hamas are the resistance in occupied Gaza. Resistance will always be labelled “terrorism” by the occupying force.
Or would you disagree that the résistance in France under Nazi Germany occupation was preceived drastically different depending on which side you were on?
And as for Iran, I think that if you’d be interested in helping them get over their regime, it has to come from within. Because if we look at Afghanistan, beside years of suffering, what has improved thanks to the western intervention?
Political tribalism has destroyed their minds and turned them into reactionaries. Their takes are whatever is opposite to the other teams take, and they’ll die on that hill if they have to, even if it’s not logical, even if the opposite team is right.
It’s a new era of underdog propaganda and it’s so effective.
I never thought I’d actually see people cheer for Hamas ever. I’ve been rooting for Palestine since before most of these commenters were even born and Hamas has always been incredibly evil organization that somehow managed to get support through the biggest terror act of this decade. Insanity.
No one has said they have a working WMD, but that they are very close to one and that they cannot be allowed to have one because it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
It’s sound logic my guy. Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
HOW LONG have everyone who just happens to be anti-Iran been saying that they ALMOST have a nuke?
How many nukes does Israel have and QUITE illegally?
Iran SHOULD have a nuke as a deterrent against the most violent terrorist nation in the ME.
Because I don’t want the woman hating, gay oppressing, non democratic regime with thousands of working WMDs that I live in to start another fucking war
Because the West is such a force of good in the Middle East that someone being able to stand up to them is a bad thing?
If that someone is a misogynist, homophobic, murderous regime of religious fanatics hellbent on making the world an even worse place, yes.
Progressive change from domestic conservatism can only happen from internal civil resistance, not bombing the fuck out the country to force a regime change
The US has plenty of domestic conservative policies, do you think the US should be bombed until they become progressive? No, obviously because that’s completely insane and simply an after-the-fact justification for chauvinism.
Bombing worked all fine against Nazis, no? What about Imperial Japan?
You get Israel is the fascist power here that represents the Nazis or imperial Japan here, right?
And no, Iran is not a fascist regime doing lebensraum via violent military expansions, unlike Israel.
If anything, you’re arguing to bomb Israel like what was done to Nazi Germany or Japan, which I still disagree with.
The Bombing of Dresden did not ‘work’ for regime change anyway. Nor were the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the surrender of the Japanese Empire.
Israel, a fascist regime, does target civilians and civilian infrastructure. The Dahiya Doctrine as already been threatened to be used on Iran as their goal regime change to work at the behest of the US/Israels interests in the region.
If you want no nukes in the region, then you should be advocating for the removal of the numerous nukes Israel has.
Iran on the other hand, is a government born out of revolutionary resistance against a brutal dictatorship put in place by western forces (the US), so those western forces killing hundreds of civilians via bombing campaigns won’t do anything other than reinforce the populace’s support for the government despite their opposition to certain domestic policies.
In addition, Iran’s response is both retaliatory and focused on military targets which is the correct way to cripple a fascist regime. Meanwhile, western governments are still not only trading with a fascist regime committing genocide, but actively funding them with military aid
What - bombings absolutely worked despite being you know evil and brutal. Ask any historian.
Didn’t realize the US is planning to invade Florida.
America?
And how is that better than the actively genocidal regime of religious fanatics actively making the world an even worse place the West is supporting? Iran makes the world a better place by opposing Israel, irrespective of their other actions, and I don’t want that one holdout of resistance to be crushed by the West and their rabid dog. If nukes are what it takes for that, so be it.
Iran, Hamas, and Ansarallah are basically the only checks on Israeli aggression, and the same libs who opposed any attempt to exert electoral pressure to cut their arms shipments are now salivating over the thought of clearing out Israel’s enemies such that they would have no obstacles to rolling out the gas chambers.
Anyone but the Jews, amirite? Go Iran! No human rights for citizens!
Get out of here with your hasbara shit. This isn’t about Jews and you know it.
No. I don’t know that. You should Google antisemitism in 2025, and give me one reason to take you in good faith. Ffs you’re supporting the Islamic Republic. Are you that asphyxiated from smelling your own farts? Its the fucking Islamic Republic. These are not good people. If you cared about fucking people, you want to see the people of Iran out from under their tyranny. You’re disingenuous and full of shit.
I don’t think anyone is the good guy. But I certainly don’t want a fanatical religious regimes with nukes.
Funny that I can’t tell if you’re talking about the US or not
Look it has to be the US, the US is the only nation who has shown themselves to be untrustable with nuclear wepons, not only being the only nation to drop them and have them detonate in a war, but also during the cold war accidentaly dropping them all over and by some stroke of luck while merphy was sleeping none of them went off even when the safties where not engaged.
If you think the US is anywhere near Iran, you need to go outside and touch grass. The President is not even religious himself.
We’re getting there we’re getting there. The president doesn’t need to believe in anything but filling his pockets to be a prime religious leader. I don’t think most cult leaders believe what they tell their followers, do you?
Trump enacts or supports a great lot of whatever the US fundies want. Women’s rights in the US don’t mean a lot now and will mean a whole lot less going forward, and a lot of that is carried by religion. I told my American friend in Januari not to panic, she still had time to get out, they would not turn the US into Iran in a month or two.
Things are going down that road faster than I believed and I am relieved to know she has been able to get out of the US today.
What I’m saying is that Trump doesn’t even pretend to be religious. The Christians that vote for him don’t think he is either. It’s purely transactional, he gets their vote, he puts policies in place that they like.
You must not have seen much of the world if you think US women rights are bad in the US. Outside of the abortion issue, I don’t see how the current administration has made any moves to curtail women rights. The states might be doing some shit, but if their constitution allows it, and the people living in the state voted and keep voting for the people these laws then what can I tell you? That’s democracy baby.
As far as I can tell women in the US are really second class citizens, who can -for the moment - still vote and own property , but those things are being dicussed as stuff to remove by the conservatives in power. The anti -trans measures taken are a direct attack on women who now face the threat of having to prove they’re “real” women whenever some creep feels like getting them to strip or doesn’t like them competing in sports or going to the toilet. After abortion, contraception is now on the table to be removed.
You must not be living in the real world to think that women in the US are ok under the current regime. Sure you can compare with Iran or Afghanistan, but those seem to be the great examples to follow for the conservative evangelicals.
I suspect Iran will change soonish, Afghanistan… is taking things further down the road to oblivion every day.
You can’t make claims like these without proof. So please show me proof that there is serious discussions in legislative circles to pass laws to that effect. But even then unless those laws are passed, my statement still stands.
On to the transgender, and more specifically transwomen issue.
Transwomen have pretty much the same rights as anyone else. I’m not gonna engage in the mental gymnastics of that particular topic so I won’t respond to replies but I’ll lay out my opinion on the matter even though I know that I’m wasting my time and I’ll get labeled transphobic: transwomen enjoy all the rights afforded to them by our laws as they are afforded to everyone else. What they do not have right now is widespread absolute social acceptance. I’ll posit that it is simply not desirable to force that through the state. To put it simply, whether transwomen are allowed to play in women’s sports or not should not be up to the government but rather the people participating in the sport, and in the same way, whether transwomen are allowed in women’s bathrooms or not should be up to the women that use the bathroom. Now that second one has its fair share of issues so I understand why it’s not really a solution. I think the real best solution is to not have gendered bathrooms at all, and the realistic solution is to be self aware and use the bathroom of the gender you most resemble.
I also think that no amount of rhetoric will convince the broad population that transwomen are the same as women, especially since it requires the aforementioned mental gymnastics to reach that conclusion.
We already have the fanatical religious regime with nukes, Iran having nukes (which, by the way, is not in any way confirmed) would simply counterbalance that. And either way, if Iran is so close to making nukes, then there’s already no time to prevent them from making one using military force. The only way to prevent this (again, very hypothetical) possibility was always diplomacy, which would require the West to not shit all over Iran like they’ve been doing for decades.
True on your first point, but their religion aligns better with liberal values so they get a pass. But excellent point.
There is a way to stop them, Israel is doing it. You kill all their scientists, generals and leadership and the facilities where this is being developed.
I don’t defend Israel actions in Gaza, but I think their actions towards Iran are very much justified in the grand scheme of things. Do I wish we could solve this without death and destruction? yes, but I also don’t trust that Iran will act in good faith and will stop developing the weapons even if they pretend to reach a diplomatic solution. The only way to stop them is to defeat them in such a way that they cannot recover.
“Liberal values” like having an explicitly religious/ethnic state, not having due process, having second class citizens, not respecting international law, etc. Yup. Sounds liberal to me. Maybe I don’t remember hewbrew school too well but I don’t think this was covered.
I did say “aligns better” not perfectly. I’m not defending them anyways, im just saying if I have to choose between one or the other, I know which one I prefer.
The one committing genocide?
How many nukes do you think Israel, an apartheid ethnosupremacist state committing genocide as we speak, has?
The whole WMD situation is so shit. Iran cant have a stalemate to prevent attacks on them if they dont have nuclear weapons, so they would be attacked all the time to prevent them from having one. Yet their regime is also the one which is not a friendly to neighbors and has barely any friendly allies therefore it is in the best interests of the rest of the world that they won’t get nuclear weapons. And again, preventing them from having it would allow Israel to bomb them freely.
Dunno how others see it, but no matter what side I try to look at this issue at, this is all looks bad and worse than the previous angle. Sad to acknowledge that Iranians have to go through this. Even if regime fails, I bet it’ll take many decades for Iranians to become a free of regime state.
Yeah, fuck the US, why are people defending it?
Very original comment. Move to Iran then.
Real original comment. YOU move to Iran.
More original than, “If you don’t like the US, why don’t you move to [country the US fucked up]?”
Odd that your solution to criticism of place they (might) live is move to another place. I mean that kind of head in the sand thinking and blind naitonalism has never gone wrong ever
It’s because it’s the third person making the same comment that I already addressed twice. I’m not gonna keep repeating myself.
That does not change its nationalism, and reaking of american exceptionalism
You addressed it in a stupid way, and you clearly are gonna keep repeating yourself
Not my fault you left yourself wide open.
People who don’t like Murica should move to Iran like you’re going to join the army today to personally fight the war that you support right? You’re not just being an armchair general, right? You’re gonna actually get on that ship and invade Iran, right?
Do you apply that same logic to Russia?
I’m applying your own logic to yourself and apparently the implied answer is “if others won’t do it then why should I”. Which circles back to you. Since you’re not going to invade Iran personally you don’t get to challenge others to do things you don’t intend to do. Not that I see anyone here challenging you to invade or move to Russia anyway.
Good point. That being said I’m very consistent in my stance if you look at other comments I never said America should get more involved in this but rather the opposite. Let both countries solve it on their own. Meaning also not fund Israel. But if I have to choose between one or the other, I will choose Israel ever day.
WHY? Israel has been a violent terrorist country for its entire existence and guess what? THEY FUCKING HATE GAYS AND WOMEN.
It’s the perspective of “I prefer Israel over Iran while white American” but switch that to being Palestinian and I doubt they’d remain pro-Israel. Not that white Americans are loved exactly because Israelis are genocidal racists and supremacists to a disgustingly high percentage, they just don’t commit (many) crimes against US citizens. Just occasionally kill pro-Palestinian US activists and attack US ships like SS Liberty to do a false flag against Egypt.
I agree and fucking hate the regime. Can’t wait for them to live free.
But, Jon Stewart got through to me the other day with video clips of Netanyahu claiming the nukes were almost built over and over for 15 years. I’m anti war and and don’t want another Iraq under false pretense. I would love for the people to get their democracy back without casualty.
I believe it’s the reason the West is in Israel. And that it’s probably only under control bc of that. But questioning the legitimacy of there being any urgency.
Does no one remember STUXNET? We’ve been sabotaging their efforts to create a nuke for a long time.
Absolutely NOBODY involved in this escalation gives one single fuck AT ALL about liberating the Iranian people. None. Nobody. Zilch. Zero. This is PURELY a capitalist venture to enrich assholes and fuel the power of radical fascists. There is ZERO benefit to ANYONE else. None. Zilch. Zero.
I don’t disagree with you. And I hate war. And I know this will kill civilians, many more than a civic upheaval.
But the citizens do not want the IR. Hopefully silver lining is western colonial investment in rebuilding infrastructure (obvi for a price and a vig) with more democratic elections, that get them on a path back to the West. Is oil + oligarchy a problem? No shit. Resources should be nationalized and socialized across the globe, different problem.
Will there be pain during transition to democracy, yes. Will there be democracy without any regime change, unfortunately not.
I’m not saying anything happening is good. But I would be lying to say I wouldn’t enjoy watching their leadership burned to the ground. I know my Persian friends feel the same.
Yeah there’s nothing that Americans love more than obliterating the hell out of foreign countries and then having to pay for rebuilding it all
I don’t understand this argument tho. Why can’t it be true? it takes time to enrich uranium like that and it’s actually possible that it took Iran 15 years to get here especially with so much opposition, no? Do you remember Stuxnet - with this amount of sabotage it’s totally possible it would take 15 or many more years to get to proper enrichment.
Each preso was literally, “they’re weeks away” … Watch the clip
It was totally possible that Iraq had WMDs, but we had fuck all for proof then and it turned out to be a lie. We’ve got fuck all for proof now and the same motives as before, there’s absolutely no reason to give the US and our allies the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t think this meme is defending the US.
The US is democratic. Not that I think current US policy hates women or gays, but if it did and the policy was enacted by a democratically elected government that campaigned on it then what you are seeing is simply the people’s will at work.
The US has literally never been a democracy, it’s never even been a particularly good representative republic. We went from only allowing white landowning men to vote, to only allowing men to vote, to ostensibly allowing everyone to vote but actually suppressing voting access and manipulating representation via gerrymandering to deliberately minimize the impact of minority representation. Just like we did with slavery, we didn’t actually fix the problem we just got better at hiding it.
The people who invented democracy and gave it a name and systemized for the first time also did not allow everyone to vote. All that matters for a democracy is that whatever it defines as citizens are involved in the decisions. Even today very few believe in actual universal suffrage because that would necessarily mean that non citizens get to vote. You won’t find popular support for that so therefore we are democratically oppressing some people. And if you argue that this means that we aren’t a democracy then there isn’t a single democracy in the world and there has never been one, and that my friend I call intellectual dishonesty.
Because nowhere in the definition of democracy is universal suffrage included. This is, once more, a modern moral judgement of what a democracy ought to be. Democracy is a system, not an ideology.
That’s a whole lot of words just to avoid admitting that I’m right lol, try harder patriot
Real no true communism vibes. Anarchist or ML? How about you spend more time explaining exactly how a stateless society looks like instead, maybe one day you’ll figure it out. I mean chimps beat you to the punch already but hey who knows right?!
“No true communism” in the sense that a stateless post-capitalist organizational structure has never been allowed to exist on a large scale, sure. Communist regimes have existed and have done a lot of good. You however have accomplished nothing and are well on your way to continuing your unbroken streak for life.
Nice unnecessary personal attack there at the end, it really drives the point across. Are you any closer to explaining what a stateless society looks like though? Keep at it! Don’t let those pesky primates dissuade you!
That is not how democracy works. You can not democratically oppress people. Was Nazi Germany a democracy then?
Democracy is rule of the majority. The majority can vote to oppress a minority; it’s how democracy has always worked.
The US had almost 200 years of being a democracy with blacks being oppressed democratically by the majority, just to give you an example.
I don’t know where the notion that democracy is inclusive came from, but everyone who holds that view needs to read a history book. You can make the moral judgement that democracy ought to be inclusive, but that does not mean that democracy is so by design, practice or even inception. That’s more of a modern moral judgement than a feature of democracy.
Majority rule is not the same as democracy. I think you are the one in need of some reading.
Majority rule however is a fundamental part of democracy. It’s why so many claim the electoral college is undemocratic (which it is with good cause). I gave a perfectly valid example of popularly backed oppression of a minority by a majority in a democratic country so instead of saying “no-no you’re wrong” debate the issue with actual arguments. Attacking me is not an argument.
Democratic, when the leader did not get the majority of elegable votes. DEMOCRACY when studies show the government action has 0 corilation to the popular will … wow much democracy
You’re losing me here…
Whatever you think of the Iranian government, (they’re not good, but also blame the US for helping put them there in the first place) there is only one country in history that has ever used nuclear weapons and they used it on civilian populations, twice. That same country has been invading one country or another for most of it’s history, devastating civilians in the process all for the sake of greed. THAT is the country that is policing the world, deciding who’s too “dangerous” to have what is apparently the only deterrent to it’s routine aggression.
The only way to not recognize this for what it is is to have never stopped to think about the American exceptionalism propaganda you’ve been fed your entire life. We’re not the good guys. Even if we want to see a better government in these countries, the US is more likely to impede that and install a different dictator than they are to usher in a proper democracy. See: Vietnam, Korea, most of Latin America, various post-soviet countries, various countries in the middle east, others that I’m probably not thinking of and… oh right: IRAN!
Lets not forget, the USA has been at war for BY FAR the majority of its life, I think but dont quote me on this the US has only been at peace for 2 years
Yeah it’s kind of hard to figure out because there are so many things that aren’t major wars we learn all about. When I thought about this before, even if you just count the big ones, the US hasn’t been at peace for more than 20 years at a time. We’ve been at war for over 80% of my life. It’s crazy how normal it feels despite that. We are super sheltered from the consequences of all of this.
I have repeatedly stated that I don’t think there are any good guys here. But there are friends and there are enemies and they are clearly enemies so I don’t want them with nukes, simple as.
Strawman me harder daddy
Alright grand dad, let’s take you to bed.
Because the current intelligence says they’re not close to one. Unless a report came out that I missed?
Don’t bother. This site seems to be about 50% propaganda accounts and 50% teenagers who have no understanding of geopolitics and are convinced that anyone against Israel are the good guys. Absolutely no understanding as to why it’s desirable to prevent a North Korea situation in the middle east.
Wrong. Iran arent good guys; Israel is a psychotically violent terrorist nation bent on annihilation of all neighboring countries. How many countries has Israel attacked? Have many have Iran attacked? Who attacked first? Why is trump INISISTENT upon wae with Iran even though his own spies confirmed there was no nuke program in Iran? Why did he destroy the treaty we had with them the first term?
Perhaps you should consider that YOU are the simp.
It’s really hard to believe that so many people defend Hamas and Iran’s government here. I’m convinced all of them are bots or just literal idiots.
Feel free to go back to reddit, much friendlier towards patriot brainrot lol
Anyone against shitrahell is a good guy.
And you have no business preventing or say in what’s desirable.
Attacking Iranian civilians -again- and you’re trying to justify that.
Who’s the propaganda account?
It’s hard to believe there’s so much apologetics for Iran here. But hey, there are entire swaths of people saying Hamas are “freedom fighters”.
I’m tempted of blocking all politic communities on lemmy but I’m not letting these crazies hijack yet another reddit alternative.
Hamas are the resistance in occupied Gaza. Resistance will always be labelled “terrorism” by the occupying force. Or would you disagree that the résistance in France under Nazi Germany occupation was preceived drastically different depending on which side you were on?
And as for Iran, I think that if you’d be interested in helping them get over their regime, it has to come from within. Because if we look at Afghanistan, beside years of suffering, what has improved thanks to the western intervention?
Show me another resistance group that invaded, kidnapped, tortured and murdered hundreds of concert goers. I’ll wait, go on.
Show me another country occupying and oppressing people they see as animals.
Unique circumstances lead to unique actions.
But I think we can all agree that october 7 was not a good thing. Resistance shouls always be directed against the state, not civilians.
Feel free to go back to reddit, much friendlier towards patriot brainrot lol
Political tribalism has destroyed their minds and turned them into reactionaries. Their takes are whatever is opposite to the other teams take, and they’ll die on that hill if they have to, even if it’s not logical, even if the opposite team is right.
It’s a new era of underdog propaganda and it’s so effective.
I never thought I’d actually see people cheer for Hamas ever. I’ve been rooting for Palestine since before most of these commenters were even born and Hamas has always been incredibly evil organization that somehow managed to get support through the biggest terror act of this decade. Insanity.
LOL you have been claiming that for 30 years hasbara boy:
https://tankie.tube/w/sh7jHCDiBgK74cjdV9wxVb