Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) let loose on Trump at a rally, calling him a "criminal," a liar, a "rapist," and a stock market cheat — for starters.
At this point, I assume anyone still harping on this is a conservative provocative looking to stir up division.
The truth is it’s possible for more than one group to be at fault. Those who stayed home have a ton of blame, the centrist dipshits at the DNC have a ton of blame, and the Republicans themselves have the most blame of all.
Quit trying to sew division. We need unity now, not to rehash old grievances.
The voters weren’t given a good enough choice to hold their nose for the 4th time in a row…
You’re acting like people just chose this election to sit out and havent been disenfranchised for (for the majority of Dem voters) their entire lives.
Because for you personally, things haven’t been that bad yet, so you refused to help anyone else because “what are they gonna do, vote Republican?”
Completely ignorant of how voting works and that the result would just be checking out of politics and not voting. Which when enough Americans do, Republicans win elections
You didn’t want to help anyone, and now you’re mad the people you weren’t going to help no matter who won the election didn’t help you
As I told someone else, the solution is helping everyone so people will be motivated to vote because they have something to lose.
Like, how the fuck does someone make it to 2025 and realize that people with nothing to lose act like they have nothing to lose?
The “moderate” wing followed the same playbook that got Hitler elected by fighting the left harder than they fight the right…
And are now acting shocked when the same result happened.
So you’re mad at everyone that warned you like people in the 1500s burning a woman for being a witch because she said a storm was coming.
Fucking ridiculous mate. But at least you feel self important, that’s what matters to some people I guess.
In 2012 I did, most of my friends at the time did.
Was glad to vote for him in 08 tho, even tho I was in the military and we literally got lined up to have a senior officer tell us voting D was voting against giving all of us a pay raise.
But by 2012…
I voted for the least evil option and have in every general election ever since.
Maybe you had no issues with him, but how is it surprising that some people felt let down by 2010, let alone 2012?
You didn’t have any friends back then who were already disillusioned?
I guess you might have just still been in school back then and weren’t paying attention. I know when I was a kid I thought Bill Clinton was great, it wasn’t till I grew up that I saw more than his MTV appearances or when he had “sexual relations” with an intern.
I did learn that the coverup is worse than the crime though from all that.
People are dumb emotional animal, and propaganda works. Bitching about this fact won’t change it. We live in a system where everyone gets to vote, even the stupid. If you as a politician fail to appeal to everyone, regardless of intelligence, then you are the one to blame.
I think you might have me confused with someone else. I do have 4-5 accounts on different instances, but only because I abandon my current one every few months and use my email provider to generate a new alias for a new instance and use the alias as my username.
This is for anonymity purposes because I’ve been vocally critical of the current US administration, but I guess my writing style is unique enough that you could follow me. Thanks for letting me know I need to step up my game.
It does follow the pattern you noticed, but I’m sure I’m not the only user who does this. And I never re-login to an account once I make a new one.
I think it’s ent wine, but I just use the email alias that my provider generates for me when I change accounts and instances every few months for a layer of anonymity.
I guess I piss off ByteData enough that he’s noticed the pattern my provider uses, but didn’t notice that once I switch accounts I never use the old one again.
Plus, I’m probably not the only one who does this.
When trump was president the first time, we all agreed it was bad and things needed fixed.
A large amount of Dem voters held their nose and voted Biden because he was the only option and even Biden was better than trump…
But instead of fixing anything, Biden just tried to gaslight America that things were fine, and didn’t actually fix anything despite having the House and Senate like trump does.
Then Biden held on to the last possible moment so there wouldn’t be a primary, tried to hand the nomination to an even more historically unpopular VP who couldn’t win, and she said she wouldn’t do anything different, except putting a Republican in her cabinet.
So you can blame voters not voting.
But it just sounds like a shady car salesman bitching no one will buy his lemons.
It’s the literal and only job for a candidate and their campaign team to win an election. We can’t blame primary voters for picking a bad option, they had no say in who the candidate was.
This is bigger than your ego being wrong about what voters will put up with
We can’t afford to deny reality so you feel better about your unpopular opinions about what Dem voters want.
If Kamala would have won the neoliberals would have maintained control of the DNC another four years, would have squashed the primary again, and we’d have been stuck voting for someone we don’t want who won’t fix anything for 8 years…
Shit is too bad to keep not fixing it.
It would have been kicking the can down the road another couple years and we’d be in the same scenario again. Meanwhile the wealthy would continue winning and 99% of us would keep losing.
Maybe it wasn’t bad for you till now, maybe you’d even be fine waiting a decade before we fixed anything…
But most Americans weren’t
Getting upset that they didn’t care about you after decades not caring about them makes you look at best uninformed about the entire last 50 years of American political history.
So…
How about you stop bitching that the people you wouldn’t help didn’t help you and start working with everyone else that needs help.
That’s the way to actually get anyone help, if you’re not in board, don’t be surprised when no one wants to listen to you
Maybe you voted for trump, but I held my nose like I always do.
Crazy you all think everyone explaining why Kamala lost didn’t vote for her.
Like, I guess it makes sense tho, without the empathy to understand why some people couldn’t or wouldn’t hold their nose, you also can’t understand how anyone else can empathize with them.
To someone like that, it would make sense why they’d assume anyone explaining this didn’t vote D.
It’s sad, but thanks to empathy I can understand why you’re saying the things you’re saying, and why you can’t understand anything that’s happening
Biden just tried to gaslight America that things were fine, and didn’t actually fix anything
You spell “things were slowly improving from disaster” and “didn’t allow america to slide into recession as we emerge from global 100-year pandemic” weird.
I love how this ‘gaslight’ lie is itself a gaslight. Sorry Stein lost, but she couldn’t have won, and wasn’t supposed to. She was funded to fool you and others into forgetting it was really a binary choice, and your split votes allowed Republicans to win. Take the win.
I never said the public was smart, just at least a little bit observant. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When the status quo sucks, any chance at improvement—even a dubious one—starts to look good. That’s why it was so fucking essential for the Democrats to pivot left economically, not (just) socially! But they abjectly refused, because in their heart of hearts neoliberals are aligned with the capitalist owner class and thus would rather have a fascist dictatorship than a socialist democracy.
the oniony layers of gaslighting are incredible here: the republicans won because the democrats didn’t vote. there aren’t enough split voters to even cover the gulf of voters that the democrats lost anymore and they lost it because of their support for the genocide.
When I don’t like the deal my car dealer offers, I tell him no, and I leave.
When I don’t like the deal the democrats offer, I tell them no, and I call anyone on Lemmy who supports them a fascist. And I don’t care who calls me a tankie, I stand with Russia!
I also support Bernie, as he’s closest to actual representation for me. But I think you’re slightly mistaken here - progressives did support him and got him on the primary ballot in ‘16 and ‘20 elections, and both times as he was gaining momentum the establishment democrats colluded to steal the nomination from him.
In 2016 it was Hillary and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz with the superdelegate voting scheme in exchange for access to the Clinton Foundation coffers. And in 2020 it was the foolhardy betrayal and backstabbing by other “progressives” in the race in exchange for theoretical cabinet positions promised by Biden, almost none of which materialized. Both times, the corporate media smear campaign against Bernie was in full force, because to them anything which upsets the status quo threatens their profit margin, and the rich capitalists who own these multinational news networks consider that blasphemy.
Vote for what, the people that gave us trump, the people that denied a genocide of brown people was occuring, the people that welcomed war criminals with open arms? 50 years of liberals lesser evil gave us incremental fascism.
Frederick Douglas worked for Lincoln even though Lincoln wasn’t running as an anti-slavery candidate
Douglass was also very involved in national politics, and as the presidential election of 1860 approached, he advocated for candidates with strong antislavery platforms. American voters received a ballot crowded with four candidates: Abraham Lincoln (Republican), John C. Breckenridge (Southern Democrat), Stephen A. Douglas (Democrat), and John Bell (Constitutional Union). Douglas’s belief in “popular sovereignty,” Breckenridge’s pro-slavery platform, and Bell’s aversion to the issue entirely left Frederick Douglass to endorse Lincoln and the Republicans, whom he believed were more antislavery than the divided Democrats.
People voted, but the MAGA Nazis rigged the election, and we ALL know it. Too bad the Democratic leadership decided to help the MAGA Nazis cover it up, and declare that they won “fair & square.” Rich Democrats like Schumer can be bought as easily as any Republican.
It seems quite likely, but aside from the plain-sight rigging (gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc etc) I haven’t seen anything except that one “computer science” guy whose numbers were contradicted by election officers.
Not exactly a citation but it was pretty weird when someone found one of the DOGE staffers’ participation in a hackathon around vote manipulation that got him real close with Musk as a result. Then he started wiping his connections once it was made public.
Honestly, I suspect they’ve been trying trying their hardest to rig the last several elections, which is why they were so pissed off and in denial about 2020: they were incredulous that they rigged it and still managed to lose anyway.
But yeah, we’ve been having exit poll discrepancies, Republican success strangely correlating with the installation of Diebold voting machines with no paper ballot, outsized performance for certain Republican candidates even though Democrats won down-ballot races, and other weird anomalies for couple of decades now.
That said, I don’t necessarily think that Republican rigging changed the 2024 outcome. I was watching them insert MAGAts into election boards, pack the courts, and gear up to refuse to certify votes and whatnot, so I was fully expecting “stop the steal 2.0” except successful this time. But then Harris gave a big middle finger to the left and subsequently underperformed so badly that she just lost outright, so the foul play wasn’t even necessary.
The truth is that outright stealing elections via vote rigging is an incredibly risky strategy. If you do that, and you get caught? That’s the kind of thing that can legitimately trigger an actual civil war. Rationally, it’s just not worth the risk. It’s especially not worth the risk when there are plenty of other shady but legal options available like gerrymandering, voter roll purges, corrupt judicial rulings, etc.
This dynamic is also why you rarely see companies bribing politicians with giant bags of cash delivered in the night. There’s no need to engage in such overt bribery, as they’ve already constructed a system where legal forms of bribery (campaign contributions) exist.
A rabble or riot might storm a location like on Jan 6, but is that going to topple a government? Maybe in the middle ages where you could depose a king but since then I don’t think so.
Civil Unrest, if maintained over weeks and months might achieve something. If the population is ungovernable I imagine that might motivate republicans to impeach but things would have to get real bad.
Other than that a protest is really just a public statement of duress. It’s an appeal to all the people who usually dont pay any attention to politics et cetera.
If you think trump won’t start deporting it’s political enemy ( starting by the more vocal of them ) and do a big show about it then you are living in a dreamland
She will 100% but maybe that what need to be so a real revolution start because the peaceful protest don’t do shit to stop fascist
Too bad people couldn’t be bothered to vote last year.
But the Democrats didn’t offer them a pony
At this point, I assume anyone still harping on this is a conservative provocative looking to stir up division.
The truth is it’s possible for more than one group to be at fault. Those who stayed home have a ton of blame, the centrist dipshits at the DNC have a ton of blame, and the Republicans themselves have the most blame of all.
Quit trying to sew division. We need unity now, not to rehash old grievances.
Oh FUCKING NOW we need unity?!
Fuck you people forever.
The left:
Fascists:
“Moderates”:
Do you legitimately not understand what’s happening now?
Because it’s literally the same way Nazis came to power the first time; “moderates” fighting the left
Absolutely incredible to acknowledge that voters chose fascism because the alternative wasn’t perfect enough, yet still act like they’re blameless.
Yes
The voters weren’t given a good enough choice to hold their nose for the 4th time in a row…
You’re acting like people just chose this election to sit out and havent been disenfranchised for (for the majority of Dem voters) their entire lives.
Because for you personally, things haven’t been that bad yet, so you refused to help anyone else because “what are they gonna do, vote Republican?”
Completely ignorant of how voting works and that the result would just be checking out of politics and not voting. Which when enough Americans do, Republicans win elections
You didn’t want to help anyone, and now you’re mad the people you weren’t going to help no matter who won the election didn’t help you
As I told someone else, the solution is helping everyone so people will be motivated to vote because they have something to lose.
Like, how the fuck does someone make it to 2025 and realize that people with nothing to lose act like they have nothing to lose?
The “moderate” wing followed the same playbook that got Hitler elected by fighting the left harder than they fight the right…
And are now acting shocked when the same result happened.
So you’re mad at everyone that warned you like people in the 1500s burning a woman for being a witch because she said a storm was coming.
Fucking ridiculous mate. But at least you feel self important, that’s what matters to some people I guess.
Are you fucking suggesting we held our nose to vote for President Obama?
In 2012 I did, most of my friends at the time did.
Was glad to vote for him in 08 tho, even tho I was in the military and we literally got lined up to have a senior officer tell us voting D was voting against giving all of us a pay raise.
But by 2012…
I voted for the least evil option and have in every general election ever since.
Maybe you had no issues with him, but how is it surprising that some people felt let down by 2010, let alone 2012?
You didn’t have any friends back then who were already disillusioned?
I guess you might have just still been in school back then and weren’t paying attention. I know when I was a kid I thought Bill Clinton was great, it wasn’t till I grew up that I saw more than his MTV appearances or when he had “sexual relations” with an intern.
I did learn that the coverup is worse than the crime though from all that.
People are dumb emotional animal, and propaganda works. Bitching about this fact won’t change it. We live in a system where everyone gets to vote, even the stupid. If you as a politician fail to appeal to everyone, regardless of intelligence, then you are the one to blame.
Or eggs.
“Taking a stand against genocide” = pony. Got it.
Well, now we have genocide in the US, so how did taking that stand work out?
You alright?
Do I need to change my name to name-name-3digits to join your trollfarm?
Edit: they got me boys, there goes all my karma. Hahah.
Oh no. Don’t group me with those people please
based on your comment history… its ok, you’re cool. :)
Haha this feels like the poor folks who end their username with their birth year being 88.
Not all is random name 3 letters are trolls.
Hmm
I think you might have me confused with someone else. I do have 4-5 accounts on different instances, but only because I abandon my current one every few months and use my email provider to generate a new alias for a new instance and use the alias as my username.
This is for anonymity purposes because I’ve been vocally critical of the current US administration, but I guess my writing style is unique enough that you could follow me. Thanks for letting me know I need to step up my game.
It does follow the pattern you noticed, but I’m sure I’m not the only user who does this. And I never re-login to an account once I make a new one.
Can confirm. No pony was offered and several people on here loudly proclaimed they would be allowing trump to win because of it.
What?
“Entwine” is one word…
But could you imagine Ent wine? Like, what does a tree get drunk on?
Fermented orc blood. Distilled for a really good time. There was a really good vintage out of the East recently.
I think it’s ent wine, but I just use the email alias that my provider generates for me when I change accounts and instances every few months for a layer of anonymity.
I guess I piss off ByteData enough that he’s noticed the pattern my provider uses, but didn’t notice that once I switch accounts I never use the old one again.
Plus, I’m probably not the only one who does this.
When trump was president the first time, we all agreed it was bad and things needed fixed.
A large amount of Dem voters held their nose and voted Biden because he was the only option and even Biden was better than trump…
But instead of fixing anything, Biden just tried to gaslight America that things were fine, and didn’t actually fix anything despite having the House and Senate like trump does.
Then Biden held on to the last possible moment so there wouldn’t be a primary, tried to hand the nomination to an even more historically unpopular VP who couldn’t win, and she said she wouldn’t do anything different, except putting a Republican in her cabinet.
So you can blame voters not voting.
But it just sounds like a shady car salesman bitching no one will buy his lemons.
It’s the literal and only job for a candidate and their campaign team to win an election. We can’t blame primary voters for picking a bad option, they had no say in who the candidate was.
This is bigger than your ego being wrong about what voters will put up with
We can’t afford to deny reality so you feel better about your unpopular opinions about what Dem voters want.
It can simultaneously be true that the democrats did a god awful job campaigning, and that people are fucking idiots for not voting for them.
If Kamala would have won the neoliberals would have maintained control of the DNC another four years, would have squashed the primary again, and we’d have been stuck voting for someone we don’t want who won’t fix anything for 8 years…
Shit is too bad to keep not fixing it.
It would have been kicking the can down the road another couple years and we’d be in the same scenario again. Meanwhile the wealthy would continue winning and 99% of us would keep losing.
Maybe it wasn’t bad for you till now, maybe you’d even be fine waiting a decade before we fixed anything…
But most Americans weren’t
Getting upset that they didn’t care about you after decades not caring about them makes you look at best uninformed about the entire last 50 years of American political history.
So…
How about you stop bitching that the people you wouldn’t help didn’t help you and start working with everyone else that needs help.
That’s the way to actually get anyone help, if you’re not in board, don’t be surprised when no one wants to listen to you
So true bestie, glad we voted in a fascist so we don’t have to worry about elections at all anymore. Really stuck it to those pesky libs.
Maybe you voted for trump, but I held my nose like I always do.
Crazy you all think everyone explaining why Kamala lost didn’t vote for her.
Like, I guess it makes sense tho, without the empathy to understand why some people couldn’t or wouldn’t hold their nose, you also can’t understand how anyone else can empathize with them.
To someone like that, it would make sense why they’d assume anyone explaining this didn’t vote D.
It’s sad, but thanks to empathy I can understand why you’re saying the things you’re saying, and why you can’t understand anything that’s happening
Leftist card revoked, you are now a collaborator.
Ooo, someone learned a new vocab word.
I hope your empathy feels great when the fascist boot presses against your neck. I have zero empathy for the confidently incorrect.
Removed by mod
They didn’t do a bad job campaigning, they told us exactly who they are, barely left of trump Republicans
Remind me how many times Biden violated the constitution?
Don’t get me wrong champ, shit needed to change, but you do see how the situation now is a lot fuckin worse? Right?
You spell “things were slowly improving from disaster” and “didn’t allow america to slide into recession as we emerge from global 100-year pandemic” weird.
I love how this ‘gaslight’ lie is itself a gaslight. Sorry Stein lost, but she couldn’t have won, and wasn’t supposed to. She was funded to fool you and others into forgetting it was really a binary choice, and your split votes allowed Republicans to win. Take the win.
Almost all the recovery went to the owner class, and you’re fucking blaming the working class for noticing. Quit your bullshit.
Almost all the recovery went to the owner class under Biden, so let’s elect Trump and transfer EVERYTHING to the owner class.
I never said the public was smart, just at least a little bit observant. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When the status quo sucks, any chance at improvement—even a dubious one—starts to look good. That’s why it was so fucking essential for the Democrats to pivot left economically, not (just) socially! But they abjectly refused, because in their heart of hearts neoliberals are aligned with the capitalist owner class and thus would rather have a fascist dictatorship than a socialist democracy.
Under Biden, economic inequality decreased for the first time in a generation.
But you dumb shits absolutely refused to believe it. Because propaganda fucking works.
the oniony layers of gaslighting are incredible here: the republicans won because the democrats didn’t vote. there aren’t enough split voters to even cover the gulf of voters that the democrats lost anymore and they lost it because of their support for the genocide.
When we showed you literally how he was fixing things, you LITERALLY DENIED REALITY AND CALLED IT FAKE NEWS.
You people are a cult just as bad as MAGA, and serve the same ends.
When I don’t like the deal my car dealer offers, I tell him no, and I leave.
When I don’t like the deal the democrats offer, I tell them no, and I call anyone on Lemmy who supports them a fascist. And I don’t care who calls me a tankie, I stand with Russia!
But it’s okay. I’m sure the people who couldn’t be bothered to pick up a ballot will be happy to pick up a rifle.
Too bad Dems held no primary and foisted a genocidal dementia patient on us as the only alternative.
Too bad the progressives who had four years to get Bernie on the ballot fell asleep.
I donated to Bernie in 2016, 2020, and 2024.
I also support Bernie, as he’s closest to actual representation for me. But I think you’re slightly mistaken here - progressives did support him and got him on the primary ballot in ‘16 and ‘20 elections, and both times as he was gaining momentum the establishment democrats colluded to steal the nomination from him.
In 2016 it was Hillary and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz with the superdelegate voting scheme in exchange for access to the Clinton Foundation coffers. And in 2020 it was the foolhardy betrayal and backstabbing by other “progressives” in the race in exchange for theoretical cabinet positions promised by Biden, almost none of which materialized. Both times, the corporate media smear campaign against Bernie was in full force, because to them anything which upsets the status quo threatens their profit margin, and the rich capitalists who own these multinational news networks consider that blasphemy.
Vote for what, the people that gave us trump, the people that denied a genocide of brown people was occuring, the people that welcomed war criminals with open arms? 50 years of liberals lesser evil gave us incremental fascism.
Frederick Douglas worked for Lincoln even though Lincoln wasn’t running as an anti-slavery candidate
Douglass was also very involved in national politics, and as the presidential election of 1860 approached, he advocated for candidates with strong antislavery platforms. American voters received a ballot crowded with four candidates: Abraham Lincoln (Republican), John C. Breckenridge (Southern Democrat), Stephen A. Douglas (Democrat), and John Bell (Constitutional Union). Douglas’s belief in “popular sovereignty,” Breckenridge’s pro-slavery platform, and Bell’s aversion to the issue entirely left Frederick Douglass to endorse Lincoln and the Republicans, whom he believed were more antislavery than the divided Democrats.
People voted, but the MAGA Nazis rigged the election, and we ALL know it. Too bad the Democratic leadership decided to help the MAGA Nazis cover it up, and declare that they won “fair & square.” Rich Democrats like Schumer can be bought as easily as any Republican.
I wish to investigate your citations.
It seems quite likely, but aside from the plain-sight rigging (gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc etc) I haven’t seen anything except that one “computer science” guy whose numbers were contradicted by election officers.
Not exactly a citation but it was pretty weird when someone found one of the DOGE staffers’ participation in a hackathon around vote manipulation that got him real close with Musk as a result. Then he started wiping his connections once it was made public.
https://bsky.app/profile/denisedwheeler.bsky.social/post/3lhowh3ijgs2f
So, the MAGAs didn’t rig the election in 2020 and let Biden win, and then when they were out of power decided to steal it? You contradict yourself.
Honestly, I suspect they’ve been trying trying their hardest to rig the last several elections, which is why they were so pissed off and in denial about 2020: they were incredulous that they rigged it and still managed to lose anyway.
But yeah, we’ve been having exit poll discrepancies, Republican success strangely correlating with the installation of Diebold voting machines with no paper ballot, outsized performance for certain Republican candidates even though Democrats won down-ballot races, and other weird anomalies for couple of decades now.
That said, I don’t necessarily think that Republican rigging changed the 2024 outcome. I was watching them insert MAGAts into election boards, pack the courts, and gear up to refuse to certify votes and whatnot, so I was fully expecting “stop the steal 2.0” except successful this time. But then Harris gave a big middle finger to the left and subsequently underperformed so badly that she just lost outright, so the foul play wasn’t even necessary.
The truth is that outright stealing elections via vote rigging is an incredibly risky strategy. If you do that, and you get caught? That’s the kind of thing that can legitimately trigger an actual civil war. Rationally, it’s just not worth the risk. It’s especially not worth the risk when there are plenty of other shady but legal options available like gerrymandering, voter roll purges, corrupt judicial rulings, etc.
This dynamic is also why you rarely see companies bribing politicians with giant bags of cash delivered in the night. There’s no need to engage in such overt bribery, as they’ve already constructed a system where legal forms of bribery (campaign contributions) exist.
We have no idea what a peaceful protest of significant size can do. We’ve never seen one.
We’ve seen peaceful protests, sure. And some not-so-peaceful ones. But non-violence is really difficult to manage and wield.
Are protests really about “doing” things though?
A rabble or riot might storm a location like on Jan 6, but is that going to topple a government? Maybe in the middle ages where you could depose a king but since then I don’t think so.
Civil Unrest, if maintained over weeks and months might achieve something. If the population is ungovernable I imagine that might motivate republicans to impeach but things would have to get real bad.
Other than that a protest is really just a public statement of duress. It’s an appeal to all the people who usually dont pay any attention to politics et cetera.
Why are people up voting random bullshit like this?
There is not a 100% chance, and if there was, we wouldn’t know about it.
Its almost always people who insisted no problems existed when Biden was in office though.
If you think trump won’t start deporting it’s political enemy ( starting by the more vocal of them ) and do a big show about it then you are living in a dreamland
And where did i say Biden had no problem?
Isn’t that the ultimate goal and why we started sending people to El Salvador without due process?
I do think that…
But no one except trump knows that.
Someone said they hoped she wouldn’t be, and you said:
Do you understand the problem with your statement?
I remarked:
I don’t think I’m going to be able to help you here if you legitimately don’t see any differences in what we’re saying
You think walking back on the conditionals is helping?