- cross-posted to:
- comicstrips@lemmy.world
- fuckcars@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- comicstrips@lemmy.world
- fuckcars@lemmy.ca
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if anyone else didn’t know who https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorstein_Veblen was
I’mma give this one to the lady on the bottom right. Not for the reason she states, but if you got 7 kids you gotta pile in, a Corolla ain’t gonna cut it.
A minivan will hold as many kids, is safer than an SUV, and they are on the smaller end of the SUV sizes.
I do think minivans should be more common as being more practical, but I don’t see how they’re safer. They also tend to be less fuel efficient due to aerodynamics. They tend to have a lower floor with more or less the same ceiling height. That gives them a larger frontal cross section compared to an equivalent sized SUV.
This applies to vans and trucks, as well. Trucks based on the same platform tend to have better mileage than the van.
They are safer to pedestrians because they tend to have lower and more curved hoods (making impact at low speeds less dangerous) and they also give better visibility to the driver.
Plus a minivan is 100x easier to get kids in and out of compared to an SUV. Honestly minivans might be peak transport vehicle form factor…
They are for peak for transporting 4-6 people and some cargo. Or a couple people and a lot of cargo. They are more fuel efficient than SUVs and use all the available space for their footprint up to the roofline.
Minivans are basically the mid sized truck version of vans.
That used to be literally true: back in the early '90s, the Ford Ranger pickup truck and the Ford Aerostar minivan shared a lot of parts (along with the Ford Explorer SUV).
Still true. For many larger platforms that have frame on body construction, the van and truck are almost identical except for the shell put on top. But you’ll see a lot of shared parts even in unibody stuff.
…minivans and hatchbacks: purposefully-designed suburban utility vehicles, all the respect in the world for both…
I have a “midsize” SUV and went on vacation with seven people, and it could hardly hold all of us even with a luggage rack on the hitch. We rented a minivan at our destination, and it EASILY fit all seven people and luggage with room to spare and was more comfortable. It also was a hybrid and got > 30mpg. Definitely wanting to rethink that SUV purchase now.
I have a little Mitsubishi Outlander that seats 7 and I’d cut off a toe for a minivan.
My teenager has to crawl through the hatch to get in her seat lol.
That last panel is why the entire “fuck cars” movement is a joke. You can’t have real solutions if you don’t have real empathy.
If that’s why the movement is a joke, then why are there several upvoted posts here saying that one is a legit reason?
I think the bottom right one is supposed to be sympathetic and more making fun of the catch 22 of the car arms race caused by all the other panels.
I don’t think you’ve spent much time here if you think that “fuck cars” is being said without empathy. None of us think that nobody should be allowed to own a car and that there aren’t legitimate use cases. Just that the vast majority of cases are Not That and for how dangerous and inefficient they are, along with infrastructure that only considers the experience of people in cars, the extent that cars have taken over and define our lives (again, as non-single-mothers-of-seven) is ridiculous.
Also, station wagons used to exist. Mini vans still exist. You could transport this many kids and not have to drive a massive truck that’s likely to mow one of them down in the driveway before you even notice they’re unaccounted for. There are other “real solutions” for this person. In fact, that single mother would have a far more peaceful time transporting her family if the cars around her were both smaller in size and fewer in number. Our interests are aligned, you see.
Have you tried having some empathy for those that are strained by the financial burden of owning a car? Society should consider people that don’t want and shouldn’t need to own a car just as much as it considers people who do need to own a car. Go project your lack of “real empathy” somewhere else cause it’s definitely misplaced here.
I mean here is a comparison between a minivan and a 3 row EV SUV:
https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/honda-odyssey-2017-minivan-us-vs-kia-ev9-2023-suv/
Not every SUV is a Suburban or Escalade.
Also, a wagon is not a replacement for a Minivan, the station wagon jump seats that I grew up with were firmly in the crumple zone, and would prevent any cargo from being loaded.
The person who wrote this comic never shopped for a family hauler, or has shopped for a family hauler and ignored their lived experience to make a quip.
Here’s the thing: “Family-hauler” is so dumb. In a sane society, that wouldn’t even be a thing. Those kids should have the freedom to get around on their own, but they can’t because of all the super-sized “family-haulers” that would kill them.
The grains of salt I take when going to a fuckcars sub:
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Most, not all, but most people online and in reality live in congested cities full of cars, and 90% of the sub will be their POV.
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Carbon emissions are bad, full stop
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Living even in a suburban area makes you an outlier
They could change their names to fuckallthesecarsinparticular but I get how offputting that is.
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Even if we outright banned cars with no nuance or forethought whatsoever, that would still save billions from climate change.
If that’s your take, you have no idea what you’re talking about
The bottom right is really the only valid reason. I’d love to get a small car but between them not really being sold in the US anymore and the crash incompatibility, I gotta pass.although there is increasingly little to live for so maybe I’ll just get a donorcycle and say fuck it
No, it’s a terrible reason. It’s complicit with the system for a level of danger reduction that is really not enough, and intentionally endangering other kids for your own children’s benefits. You merely continue the cycle. It’s short sighted at best.
Get a small enough car and you can just pass under them.
I settled on a mid sized suv as the compromise. Seating for four, and I have a family of four. Big enough to go with traffic but small enough to be reasonably efficient. Big enough to carry a lot but small enough to fit in narrow lanes and parking spots
A question for big car drivers
How the fuck do you drive?
I have a slightly longer and wider than usual SEDAN and I struggle in the city. I can’t imagine steering a massive hunk of shit
You just cant see whats in your way up close, so it’s less anxiety inducing to drive than a full size sedan. “What you don’t know can’t hurt you” 🤪
But more seriously, its probably the trick of perspective: the higher the seating position makes the vehicle footprint feel smaller and feel like you’re moving slower and also makes it easier to see over the smaller cars in traffic 😅
(I don’t actually own one but have driven my sisters one on occasion)
Drive an electric F150. It’s legitimately a skill to drive the thing. I went from a “Prius C/Aqua” to the truck because I have a horse to haul. I legitimately think there should be a special license endorsement to be allowed to drive it. I would vote to require such extra testing if given the chance.
Oh man I would be all over tiered licensing. For size and performance, the basic license probably shouldn’t cover that can accelerate like a Tesla.
The fact that there’s no special licensing needed for RVs despite being the same size as buses and larger than most commercial trucks makes no sense.
1000% yes, it’s absolute madness. Should need a CDL for those.
I’d reckon all the electric cars accelerate in the same tier unless it’s the bz4x/Soltera which are literally the worst vehicles on the market right now.
Nissan Leaf 0-60 in 7 or 8 seconds depending on model. That’s about the same as a standard Mazda 3. The Tesla Model 3 can do it in half the time. Not even close to the same tier.
I stand corrected lol. Nissan leaf is basically just stuck in 2014 in all honesty. They still even use the Japanese connector that no other car uses. It’s basically a glorified golf kart. I completely even forgot they sell them new still.
Everything else > bz4x/Soltera >> Leaf lol
If you buy a 2025 Leaf for over 20K, you got robbed lmao.
I don’t think “Leaf bad” undermines the actual point that a 3 second 0-60 time is wildly unnecessary and dangerous for the average driver, it was just illustrating that not every EV is performance-spec. I’d personally gate anything faster than 6, maybe 5 seconds under a “sport” license and traffic violation penalties should be more severe in that class of vehicles to more accurately reflect the relative risk to others.
Gating licensing based on acceleration speed doesn’t really make much sense. It should be based on vehicle mass, stopping distance or driver visibility. Being able to quickly accelerate makes it safer for highway driving and it’s the driver’s responsibility not to treat the suburbs as their personal drag strip.
Oh absolutely. However, the Leaf is bad for every other reason besides its acceleration speed though.
Lol you think the leaf is bad, my cmax plug in take 12 seconds to get to 60mph on electric only
To be fair, that car was last sold new in 2017 according to my search. I was arguing for 2025 models.
I would like to see fines for reckless driving have a “large/lethal/unsafe modification” upgrade.
You wanna get drunk and meatcrayon yourself? Be my guest. Get blitzed and take your dually Dodge Ram with 4" wheel spacers down residential roads at highway speeds? Hope your ass is ready for a lifetime prison sentence.
I have a legitimate work reasons to own a pickup and I don’t drive in the city. When I do, it’s a box trunk for deliveries and I hate it. I fucking hate staring at shiny Escalades with only one person in it.
Very carefully.
Went from a subcompact coupe to a “midsize” crossover, and it’s terrifying. Can’t see shit near me because of how high I sit. Can’t see shit next to me because of the big-ass B pillars, and the short window puts the pillar right next to my head.
The main 2 reasons I switched?
1: My hybrid coupe was a horrible gas guzzler at 36MPG, the SUV gets 90+ MPGe.
2: People in big-ass SUVs kept trying to kill me. Hasn’t happened nearly as much since I got a car that would do consequential damage to them if they run into me.
Get those stick on mirrorlets, that let you see around the B column and right into your blind spot.
Any mirror from any brand would work, here’s the first link off DuckDuckGo: https://www.autozone.com/safety-and-security/blind-spot-mirror
They’re a game changer if you have a hard time seeing there. Takes some fiddling to angle them just right, but worth it.
The hurr-durr narrative is a bit disingenuous. It’s not just the loony MAGA/Conservatives buying these cars as depicted in the comic, it’s centrists and progressives who arguably have more money who are buying these cars.
I thought the main reason was price, EVs needing massive batteries, and automakers unwilling to pay small car taxes and opting more for light trucks to save costs.
it’s centrists and progressives who arguably have more money who are buying these cars
What are they to buy alternatively? The basically non-existent sanely sized cars?
Exactly, which is why I reject the premise of the comic. People are just buying what’s available/affordable, not out of some ideological creed
This is a bit dramatic. There are plenty of sanely sized cars available, and its not like everyone yearns for them but is forced into a suburban. Last time I checked you could still buy a corolla, an H-RV, a leaf, crosstrek, civic, Prius, several minis, a Mazda 3, BMW 1, etc. If people literally just bought rav4s instead of giant SUVs the average vehicle size would be significantly smaller, even though the rest of world thinks those are huge too.
…the mazda 3 is BIG, unfortunately they don’t offer the 2 stateside anymore, not even in puerto rico…
The hurr-durr narrative is a bit disingenuous. It’s not just the loony MAGA/Conservatives buying these cars as depicted in the comic, it’s centrists and progressives who arguably have more money who are buying these cars.
to anyone who has to travel across the US for work you quickly start to realize that is hard to tell the Democrat and Republican drivers apart and this comic got both sides included
definitely two sides of the same coin
another common theme in the United States is the belief road signs are not really there especially speed limits
only a few drivers follow the road signs to the detriment of safety even in work zones
big vehicles with people that see no need to follow road rules are very common and the few drivers following the rules either get bumper humped or pulled over
very toxic driving environment in the US and at this point it would be safer without speed limits
also sedans do suck and are definitely too small but do drive all day so nether region room is important as much as cargo room is
…keep right except to pass and most of your concerns will melt away; that’s how i drive rented trucks with speed limiters, slowest vehicle on the road with no worries…
also sedans do suck
Nah. I had a 2005 Camry for almost two decades and it was pretty roomy, had a massive trunk, and was not very large at all.
You’re right, and I shouldn’t have painted all the progressives out of the picture like that. I guess I just meant to say that most people buy what they can rich or poor, rather than out of some belief
A big part of it is the lack of sanely sized options, which is driven by a combination of confirmation bias (“the best sellers are all giant SUVs” when the only real options are giant SUVs), low gas prices, and incentives to manufacturers by classifying vehicles as trucks to get around emissions rules. We could undo a lot of it if we taxed and regulated giant SUVs and trucks the same way we do smaller cars, but that hits the profits of big auto and would be politically disadvantageous for anyone to try so they don’t.
^^This.
I would have much rather purchased an EV coupe. It’s useless for me to haul around 5 seats. I rarely have more than one ass in the car at a time.
Also driven primarily by the C.A.F.E. act of 1992-1993. That’s why the cars in the 90s started getting bigger, and continued to get bigger. So now, like you said, small options aren’t available, or are outright outlawed like kei cars and trucks.
Non-american here, can you give a rundown of what that CAFE act was about?
Corporate Average Fuel Economy, sets emissions limits based on vehicle size. Bigger car = lower standards. So rather than make more efficient engines we just make bigger cars and market the hell out of them until Americans think they need a Canyonero.
lack of sanely sized options
I don’t get this, like they still make sedans. Go to a toyota or honda dealership and there are still plenty of small affordable efficient cars.
I agree we should definitely tax them but that’ll only go so far. Even if we tax them people have shown there willing to spend a lot more money for an suv . People view them as a status symbol and cultural signifier and will pay a lot since a part of there identity is based off it.
Strict regulation making it so a majority of people just can’t buy one would be the only way, but thats unpopular and fox News would have a field day about “the liberals are coming for your truck”
@Not_mikey @Wxfisch Go to a Toyota or Honda dealership and you’ll find that longstanding models like the Civic and Corolla are much larger and less affordable than they were at the peak of their popularity. Ford no longer makes sedans and GM makes few. All the car companies aggressively market trucks and SUVs to the exclusion of sedans and hatchbacks. That’s not because consumers decided they wanted “status symbols,” it’s because SUVs & trucks have higher profit margins.
@Not_mikey @Wxfisch I know unfortunately many people who own mid-sized SUVs. No one I choose to associate with has one a status symbol. They’re motivated by lack of smaller options (particularly for parents who need to fit multiple car seats in a vehicle) and fear of them or their kids being injured by other drivers in comically oversized vehicles.
@Not_mikey @Wxfisch Yes, the average consumer is quite susceptible to marketing and follows trends in everything from clothes to food & drink to toothbrushes. Many will look around at their peers and try to “keep up with the Joneses”. Rather than evidence that car companies are simply responding to consumer demand, that shows they’re creating the demand that most benefits their bottom line and looser regulation on vehicles classified as light trucks is a big part of why they market what they do.
Many sedans in the US are quite a bit larger than their global counterparts. That also assumes that all sedans are somewhat fungible which also isn’t true. It’s common for foreign manufacturers to only introduce longer wheelbase versions of vehicles in the US but offer shorter wheelbases in Europe and Asia, thus includes sedans and coupes, but also minivans and trucks. I’d be somewhat interested in a VW id.Buzz, but aside from software issues they only offer the larger variant in the States which won’t even fit in my garage. Even the somewhat normal sized Ioniq 6 we got is way wider and longer than we’d ideally like, but there are no other options to get something in a saner size on Hyundai/Kias eGMP platform which has tons of benefits (higher voltage packs for faster charging, solid and relatively affordable technology options, and full V2L capabilities).
It’s safer for drunk driving if the other cars are the ones turned to smithereens.
This ignores the role of advertising in making people want things.
They wouldn’t do it if it didn’t work.
Also the companies either not selling smaller models at all or selling under powered econobox trash.
YSK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_car
Some jurisdictions require that auto makers offer low or no emission vehicles, a vehicle is considered a “compliance car” if it is clear that the company producing it is only doing so in order to comply with these regulations, rather than viewing them as a source of profit. This is generally identified by low production volume, sales limited to only regions where the law requires it, and low effort design.
They don’t sell them because they make a bigger profit on giant trucks even if they have to pay for ads to convince people to buy them.
They would be advertising anyway, but yes people do have a tendency to see more value in volume even if the value isn’t actually there. It goes along with the US fascination with buying in bulk.
Yes, but what they would be advertising would be different. They want people to buy more of the thing that makes them the most money.
If small efficient cars were more profitable they would advertise them instead of giant luxury trucks.
Dey stupid and it makes their penis seem bigger.
Does anyone really need 7 children?
Fittingly, seven of Charles Darwin’s children survived to adulthood.
That is eleven reasons!
We have pretty small cars but we often are transporting six people. So we end up driving two cars pretty regularly. It’s not so bad when we’re just going across town, but we’re traveling to Toronto and Florida for two trips this summer. We have rented a big SUV for trips like that before, but it costs more overall and sometimes it’s nice to have two vehicles while we’re there because we don’t all six want to go the same place every moment of our week.
Most big SUVs I see have one person in them though.
Ever tried a minivan?
This. The solution is a people-carrier. The ground clearance of an SUV or the cargo bed of a pickup truck won’t help with anything.
The ID. Buzz looks pretty sick atm, but it’s a tad expensive.
Plus it only has two cup holders.
Wow. My old broke down Kia minivan has thirteen cupholders.
My old Odyssey had 18!
That’s honestly crazy. I used to joke that the van has 13 cupholders and 7 seats because in Korea it’s a 13 seater. But in what world are you using 18?
That is really cool, I wish it was more practical for me, and that is more than just the expensive price tag. I’ve purchased quite a few new vehicles, but none of them were ever over $22k. I do like a lot about it, but I also regularly drive long distances on remote dirt/unimproved roads and sometimes drive cross country for 20 hours nonstop. So for now a smaller vehicle with more ground clearance and range makes more sense.
Yes, technically I own one but it has major issues and we use it only as our version of a truck to go the two miles to the local Home Depot. It loses all power and will stop if you try to drive it up a hill. But I can fit a full sheet of plywood in the back with the middle seats out. We’ve tried renting minivans, but we’ve had two problems.
One is that they’re never available - they’ll take your reservation but when you show up to get it there are none available so they substitute a large SUV like a Chevy Tahoe. A Tahoe has way more space and would cost more to rent, which are benefits, but they’re also far less fuel efficient which isn’t great.
The other problem is space. A minivan can move six people but modern minivans don’t really have space for luggage for six people for nine days in the back. I even own a nice hard sided roof luggage carrier I use with my Subaru Crosstrek, but rentals never have the roof bars you need to mount it up there.
For now, our little cars are decently fuel efficient. I would consider buying another minivan but our youngest is 15 so I think at some point soon we’ll need less people-carrying capacity.
A Tahoe has way more space
A Tahoe has way more bulk in terms of exterior dimensions than a minivan, but I dispute the idea that it has way more interior passenger+cargo space. Even if the width and length are the same (e.g. big enough for a sheet of plywood), the minivan’s interior should be taller (because the floor isn’t so high above the ground) and the seats should be better at getting out of the way.
A minivan can move six people but modern minivans don’t really have space for luggage for six people for nine days in the back.
I’ve owned a long wheelbase Ford Aerostar and, more recently, a Kia Sedona, and I’ve gotta admit I miss the Aerostar. Still, the Sedona definitely isn’t small.
I currently own a Kia Sedona but as I explained in another comment I only use it to drive two miles or less on flat ground. It came in two wheelbase lengths, and we have the longer wheelbase so there’s a decent amount of space for luggage, but I can’t drive it anywhere I would bring luggage.
Most modern minivans are smaller than that Sedona and have significantly less cargo space. If you’ve never driven or ridden in a Tahoe, they are bigger on the inside, no question. Yeah they’re higher off the ground, but they’re taller, wider and longer. So if everyone has a small suitcase and a backpack, even if only the suitcases fit in the back, the backpacks can fit in the seating space much more comfortably than in a van.
Also, I’ve never intentionally rented a Tahoe. I try to rent a minivan, I get a Tahoe. But they are more comfortable for a group of six, and that matters if you’re driving 17 hours straight or something like that.
It came in two wheelbase lengths, and we have the longer wheelbase
TIL! Mine is apparently the long wheelbase version, so that’s nice.
Most modern minivans are smaller than that Sedona and have significantly less cargo space. If you’ve never driven or ridden in a Tahoe, they are bigger on the inside, no question.
I have been in the inside of a Tahoe, but I admit, it’s been a very long time so I guess the new ones may very well be bigger than I expect.
Also, I thought the Kia Sedona was a “modern minivan.” Mine’s only… uh… 18 years old. Oh.
Well, it’s modern compared to my other cars, at least.
Still, I don’t understand why a 2025 minivan would be smaller, especially when the trend for every other class of vehicle is to get bigger over time.
I’d guess it’s mostly about fuel efficiency which is legitimate. I think the Tahoe falls into a light truck category because it’s on a truck frame. Not sure about the newest models, but it was on a truck frame for most of its existence, and those towing ratings are higher than ever.
“Light trucks” or vehicles like large SUVs don’t have to meet the same efficiency standards as most cars, minivans and smaller SUVs which often use more of unibody frame. It’s bad regulation at work.
And the other reason: To make yourself feel better about your teeny weenie.
I’m 6’3 and abnormally long in the torso, so I sit really tall. I do not fit in a lot of cars without my head touching the ceiling, sometimes crammed into it. I keep trying to save money by renting mid-size cars when I travel and it’s fucking miserable. Literally driving with my seat all the way down and still having to either lean my seat way back and barely reach the wheel or cock my head below the closed visor the entire time just to see straight ahead. Vans, SUVs and trucks are the only vehicles I’ve been able to even sit in comfortably since I was like 15 or 16. I wish I could drive a compact and save money on gas. But there are a LOT of cars that are off the table for me because I simply cannot fit in them.
6ft8 here, with most of my height in my legs. I feel you, even large cars often have absurdly large dashboards and I still won’t fit in them.
I’ve had to ask to swap my rental car several times already.
6’1 and similar. I cannot ride in a Toyota, regardless of the size of it.
My head is out the sunroof in a 2012 sequoia, and those things are bigger than a small truck.
I’m also 6’3" and long in the torso. If I lower the seat in my Golf as low as it can go I have 4 inches of headroom and if I push it all of the way back I can barely reach the pedals. I keep my seat back fully vertical as well; I can’t stand for it to be reclined even a little. Either you have been driving the wrong cars, or you are looking for an excuse.
Huh. I haven’t tried a Volkswagen. I wonder if that is typical of their models.
Either you have been driving the wrong cars
Apparently. I’ve tried many.
or you are looking for an excuse.
No need for the sass. Like I said, I have tried. I also drive a van now becuase we were fostering for a while and needed the seating, but I would love to downsize if only for the mileage improvement.
Sorry for the snark. I work with altogether too many people who say they have the same reason for driving their huge brodozers, and when I tell them about my VW they dismiss it as too small. I shouldn’t take that out in random internet strangers.
Brings my short ass comfort that we are better in one fucking thing over bandit ladders /s
Bandit ladders?
Someone who is very tall can give the others a jump when trying to jump a wall to rob a place lmao
Obscure slang I guess
Ooooooh. I see.
6’4" here. My height is mostly in my torso (38" inseam) and I drive a 2017 Mini Cooper and have been driving Minis since I started driving. I don’t fit in most compacts but do fit comfortably there. So, yeah, still not a great reason to be driving oversized cars.
To be clear, 38" inseam means fully half of your height is in your legs (6’4" is 76"). By comparison, I wear 36" inseam and the bottom of my pants tuck under my heel when I’m not in shoes. So I think my torso has a few inches on yours.
Regardless though, I have not driven an exhaustive list of small cars. I have never tried a Mini Cooper. Maybe I would fit fine, idk. I just said that I have tried to drive a variety of rental cars and have yet to find one that fits me. I fit just fine in my Sienna.
I drive a truck because it’s the vehicle my mother always wanted and she finally got one before she passed.
When we lived in the country we got tired of using a trailer to move everything and was using the bed more often.
Edit: also, there are cars where I have to put my head through the moon roof if I sit in front and lay down if I’m in the back. I know not every car is like that, but I’ve never been as comfortable in a car like I am a truck.
And and, I got the highway version instead of more towards off roading so I get like 30 mpg on the highway.
