More! I need more of this!
Carry on AOC, just do not forget about the American people, even the asswipes supporting Krasnov.
She’s always been such an action hero. Even now as the conservatives are emboldened. Tell me who’s gonna lead the god damn revolution.
By the looks of it, her being imprisoned is what might America stand up, or not. Most of Republicans are racist pieces of shit with no moral compass or compassion to the extent that it is guaranteed they all go tell hell if they are Christians for eternity, all to suck an orange mans cock for a few years. Talk about people hurt by being closeted.
Only thing they we’ll make Americans stand up is if they turned off the internet. But then they’d probably just go to tv again.
Bernie and AOC are the only two representatives that have ever gotten me so fired up that I’m signing up for phone banking & door knocking even though that’s like the last fucking thing I wanna do in my free time.
I am even hate calling my state representatives and telling them to just do what AOC says because clearly she’s got the biggest balls in the room and actually understands what her job is-- fighting for the people she represents, not corporate interests.
I called my representative a few years back and his office said you should call your representative because they weren’t it. That was Florida. The day Rubio and Voldemort get to meet the working class, will be a day their family says, oh shit, that’s what I thought
Arresting AOC would be the biggest mistake the MAGA Nazis could make. It would virtually guarantee that she will be the leader in post-MAGA America.
Post-MAGA America is what they’re trying to prevent through their fascist attacks on the rule of law and the judiciary.
Every day I’m more convinced that those of us on the left needs to stock up before they start adding registered Democrats to the NICS database to keep us from buying weapons.
But it is absolutely the kind of mistake they would make.
Please stay safe, AOC
Homan, when asked about Evers’ guidance outside the White House on Thursday, answered, “Wait ’til you see what’s coming.”
These absolute fucking ghouls. Homan needs to be put against the fucking wall.
Mod here: We’ve received several reports from this comment thread. If I had the power to lock just this thread, I would because I can see how this conversation has some seeds for productive discourse, but that doesn’t seem to be the direction that things are headed toward right now.
I would encourage people to reread what each other has said, and rather than immediately thinking of a rebuttal, read it a second or third time until you can interpret what the other person said a different way than you initially read it.
Mod here: We’ve received several reports from this comment thread. If I had the power to lock just this thread, I would because I can see how this conversation has some seeds for productive discourse, but that doesn’t seem to be the direction that things are headed toward right now.
I would encourage people to reread what each other has said, and rather than immediately thinking of a rebuttal, read it a second or third time until you can interpret what the other person said a different way than you initially read it.
this conversation has some seeds for productive discourse, but that doesn’t seem to be the direction that things are headed toward right now.
Why is some unproductive discourse a problem? Why is it so severe that a (hypothetical) thread lock is needed?
What’s more, Pam Bondi is probably the one orchestrating and advising on political prosecutions that are almost certainly implied by “what’s coming.”
But I really hope my other intuition is correct and they have not yet fully staffed the DOJ with fascist sycophants. I am hoping there are enough decent people that they have been and will derail the worst of it, at least in the short term.
I feel like the recession and threat of joblessness will sway a lot of those decent people to “just doing my job” their way into being okay with it.
Please stay safe, AOC
No, don’t. The opposition playing it safe is how the fascists are winning.
bro doesn’t know the difference between “stay safe” and “play safe”
You know what I meant.
Yes, I know what you meant. But the reality is, defeating fascism is not a safe thing to do. If we all stick with the mentality of being safe, we will lose our rights forever.
Edit: I guess the downvotes I’m getting just go to show how many of us are fascists and/or cowards.
Edit 2: keep downvoting without replying to refute my point, fascist cowards. You’re only proving me right with every click. You have no fucking rebuttal and you know it.
You’re getting downvoted for being a dick. Stop being a dick and maybe people will listen to you. You can be correct and have a counterproductive attitude. Especially knowing that Lemmy is largely filled with people who align with you.
Nope, I was getting downvoted before that. Try again.
The real reason is that people don’t want to hear what a dire situation we’re actually in. They want to delude themselves into thinking that “safe” politics as usual is capable of solving the problems we’re faced with to day, but it isn’t. So they shoot the messenger.
Ok chicken little
Yeah, because you were being a dick on your first comment.
Just say “my bad” and be more thoughtful going forward, that’s all it takes.
TIL not wanting to discourage standing up to fascism makes me a “dick.”
🙄
You can tell yourself what you want, but I agree with your view, and still had to downvote just to reduce the toxicity hogging space from up top. I use the votes as signal boosters / signal dampeners. Lower voted, for most people, end up in the bottom, where most don’t reach them.
Some people don’t want to hear it, because they know it by heart already. Some because it’s not productive and only serves to lower morale. Some, because that’s just defeatist and/or escalatory. Whatever the reason, I’m certain most people do not need to hear that shit. What purpose would it even serve? Things are not as dire as that and you know it too, you are just being sensational for whatever reason you’ve conjured yourself. I even agree that things have to hurt before meaningful action starts to happen at a meaningful level, but hoping specifically someone to get hurt and/or not stay safe is just you being a prick. Nobody needs to be exposed to that.
hoping specifically someone to get hurt
What the fuck is wrong with you?! That is not even slightly what I said and you fucking know it. Telling hateful lies like that is 10000% more “prick” behavior than anything I did!
There’s a big fucking difference between hoping that somebody will not listen to cowardly advice, and hoping they get hurt. I shouldn’t have to explain that to the entire fucking thread, but I’m apparently surrounded by idiots.
Yes, I know what you meant. But the reality is, defeating fascism is not a safe thing to do. If we all stick with the mentality of being safe, we will lose our rights forever.
Edit: I guess the downvotes I’m getting just go to show how many of us are fascists and/or cowards.
Edit 2: keep downvoting without replying to refute my point, fascist cowards. You’re only proving me right with every click. You have no fucking rebuttal and you know it.
Yeah, no. That’s not a choice you get to make for AOC.
It’s not even a choice you get to make for anyone but yourself.
I’ll put it another way, perhaps more clearly:
If you volunteer your own safety and even your life in the cause of defending others from evil, you’re a hero. I mean that sincerely.
But when you freely volunteer someone else’s safety and even their own life for a cause that you have determined they should suffer and die for, no matter how noble or ethical, you are just another arrogant prick who has strayed SO far from your own lane that you’ve become blind to your own anti-fascist cause, even the moral lines you 100% believe you’re defending.
Add to this the fact that AOC is female, and how many men believe women are disposable and even interchangeable, and that just adds a whole 'nother level of self-engaged fuckery to your outburst.
In case all this isn’t clear enough for you, FASCISTS are the ones who gleefully sacrifice others to their cause and blithely determine them all to be sacrifices they’re willing to make on the behalf of the majority. Maybe go back and think about what you’re really advocating before you adopt the exact same tactics you decry in others to make it happen.
In the meantime you richly deserve every downvote you get.
EDITED TO ADD ORIGINAL QUOTE:
Please stay safe, AOC
No, don’t. The opposition playing it safe is how the fascists are winning.
Yeah, no. That’s not a choice you get to make for AOC.
And I’m not!
But @prole over there thinks it’s somehow a good thing to encourage her to stop. Since when is he entitled to tell her to second-guess the decision she already made?
It’s ironic that he’s the one who committed the offense you think was so heinous – trying to tell AOC what to do – but you’re piling on me instead for pushing back on it.
But when you freely volunteer someone else’s safety
Fuck off and quit lying about what I said.
Add to this the fact that AOC is female, and how many men believe women are disposable and even interchangeable, and that just adds a whole 'nother level of self-engaged fuckery to your outburst.
Now you reveal your own dishonesty and bad faith, pulling implications of sexism out of thin fucking air. You should be ashamed of yourself. Apologize. Now.
Yeah, that’s why I quoted you in full.
I don’t have a problem with remembering what you wrote. You do.
pulling implications of sexism out of thin fucking air.
Read it again carefully . . . but thank you for confirming the accuracy. Not everyone who genuinely supports the rights of women is a woman, lol.
You should be ashamed of yourself. Apologize. Now.
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Yeah, that’s why I quoted you in full.
I don’t have a problem with remembering what you wrote. You do.
First of all, no you fucking didn’t. You quoted my second comment, but not the first (let alone the context I was replying to). Quit lying.
Second, exactly where the fuck in…
Yes, I know what you meant. But the reality is, defeating fascism is not a safe thing to do. If we all stick with the mentality of being safe, we will lose our rights forever.
…did I demand or “volunteer” anything from AOC? Point it out!
Oh that’s right, you can’t because I said no such thing and you fucking know it.
Read it again carefully . . . but thank you for confirming the accuracy.
You should read it again, because you didn’t confirm a goddamn thing.
Not everyone who genuinely supports the rights of women is a woman, lol.
No shit, Sherlock – literally nobody here but you ever implied otherwise. Maybe you’re the sexist who just made that major discovery for yourself, LOL!
Bottom line is, you have some real “lack of reading comprehension” and “making bad-faith baseless accusation” problems.
You’re getting downvoted because you’re uneducated.
Okay then, educate me. Tell me exactly which part of what I wrote wasn’t correct. Be specific, please – after all, “I’m uneducated.”
Homan is a Pakled.
Finally, a brave Amarican standing up
I love her gumption, but I really fear she’s underestimating her opposition. They’ve already shown they care nothing about the rule of law, so counting on that to “protect” you is a losing bet in the long term.
It’s terrible, but what we need is the final layer of the mask to come of ASAP. Right now the US population is a slowly-boiling frog, and to get regular people to act we may need the heat to get turned up to 11.
I think she’s doing what’s right and good, and there’s not a lot of that going around right now. I stand for and with her. Bring it if they want to mess with her.
Well, she can either cower in fear and comply in advance, or fight to the limits of what she can do. They are coming for her either way.
I think she is what the Democrats should be. She is doing her job. TBH electing her president would restore a lot of the public image Trump lost the US.
They are coming for her either way.
This is the most important lesson for everyone. There is no safety in complacency. There is no peace after appeasement.
You fight today, or you die tomorrow. They might not come for you first, but they will come for you. By the time they do, who will be left to speak out?
This is absolutely the lesson we all need to learn. It is always true, in history, life, and art with such ghouls:
That doesn’t mean we can’t delay him. And his name is Voldemort, Filius. You might as well use it, he’s going to try and kill you either way. -Prof McGonagall
electing her president would restore a lot of the public image Trump lost the US.
i think this is not true… a large portion of what the US has in reputation was stability: trump as proved that the systems in place on the US can be bent and abused in ways nobody thought possible… the only way to fix that is systemic change
4 years of AOC won’t change that the same thing can happen again at the end of her term
I’m not saying it would restore all of it, or even most of it, but being a country that can also elect an AOC would restore hope that the US is not beyond redemption.
We need politicians to push back on the fascists. If they go after AOC too aggressively it will make her a martyr to the cause and give the rest of us someone to aspire to.
If the limp Democratic opposition continues to do nothing, and we will all feel abandoned to the Red-hats, it only gives trump more power.
If the limp Democratic opposition continues to do nothing, and we will all feel abandoned to the Red-hats, it only gives trump more power.
Don’t threaten them with a good time.
No.
She understands the risks, and she’s willing to die and be a martyr if that’s what’s necessary.
We shouldn’t be talking like this regardless. Don’t normalize any ideas they might have. If you make what’s next expected, they’re more likely to do it and more likely to get away with it.
You didn’t read the article. Paraphrasing but:
“Use it or lose it. We’re gonna use it”
I think the point is to expect blood to be spilled, and to prepare for when that happens. That means giving AOC bodyguards, access to a friendly National Guard, food testers, ect. Trump will try to kill her, we should use all measures to safeguard AOC’s life. Acknowledging the reality of her possible death is the first step to preventing that.
Acknowledging the reality
Doesn’t need to be done on public social media.
Why not exactly?
Look at social media today. It’s ok for nazi salutin’ Musk? But not for fighting back?
Grow the fuck up, yo.
I like AOC, but I feel you may be overestimating her political will.
Really? Her actions show the opposite of that.
What makes you say that?
I love her gumption, but I really fear she’s underestimating her opposition. They’ve already shown they care nothing about the rule of law, so counting on that to “protect” you is a losing bet in the long term.
I love how difficult it is to determine which party is her opposition.
y’all gonna have to give me a ‘blunt free speech reminder’ after I go non-verbal when I finish smoking that shit.
She should pull her shirt up to cover her head, hold her arms out like a cactus, and say “Are you threatening me?”
Edit: Since there seem to be many of you who are missing the reference.
I think people think you’re trivializing her opposition, but honestly, derisive comedy is one of the only ways to truly undermine fascism. Fearing them may be wise after they are established, but it does only make them stronger.
Also, anyone not watching the new Beavis & Butthead series is missing out, it’s really good.
I am the great Cornholio!
(I got it, even if goobers thought you were insinuating she she flash her chest.)
When I saw all the downvotes, I suddenly realized that Beavis and Butthead are “for old people” now.
I mean, inappropriate comments are ever-present when this politician has the spotlight, from the very beginning of her career. On first read I thought this was just another, and someone’s opinion re: AOC tells you a lot about them as a person. The mass downvotes on comments in this thread are a clue, for example. Some people have a curiously strong urge to put her in “her place.”
Homan, when asked about Evers’ guidance outside the White House on Thursday, answered, “Wait ’til you see what’s coming.”
🧐
I with you OP. This is the right way and the right attitude.
It’s gonna be GreenE, MTG vs AOC in ‘28
(Assuming there will be an election)
Edit: GreenE
Greens are in bed with Putin, same as the GOP. They never attempt any campaign that can have a positive impact. They’re not leftists or worth support from anyone who is remotely left of center.
Sorry, GreenE. Marjorie Taylor Greene
MTG v AOC
Oh my. That makes more sense in an awful way.
She’s a Zionist. US needs a better opposition leader, it’s not her.
Fuck off person who led to trump
Oh? This you? Portuguese twat who’s never been to the US thinks AOC is a Zionist?
MF sit the fuck back down and learn how to operate a power grid.
She’s been seen many times supporting Israel.
You’re lack education and manners.
Lol aoc is too good for americans, shes a smart person who actually worked to get where she is. No wonder those idiots dont like her
Don’t you belong with your god over on truth social? How did you get here?
Wait how is she a Zionist??
well unfortunately @o_arguido@lemmy.world is the sole world authority on who is or is not a zionist so unfortunately if o_arguido said she’s a zionist then well nobody can countermand the zion-lord sorrryyy
I am so sick of people basing their entire political opinion on what happens in the middle east. News Flash: Many people dont understand what is even happenning. Most of us don’t care.
That’s why most of the world despise Americans. Keep it up. Fucking murderers. It’s your bombs you fucking idiot
And here we see a sighting of one nature’s truly disgusting creatures.
The internet troll.
You’re a moron. Lemme needs better users, it’s not you.
Oh, I offended their gf.
What the hell are you on about? Zionist? Use English. Ain’t no one knows what the fuck that means unless you are some neck bearded troll.
I speak 4 languages. That comment is so fucking American.
Here’s another free speech reminder:
https://thegrayzone.com/2021/04/09/anti-war-activist-police-aoc-video/all she needs now to be taken seriously is to leave the sold-out Democrat party
Is congresswoman
Is subject of article
Is one of the best known democrats
A nobody says she should leave the party to be taken seriously
lol okay. And I’m a nobody too, that’s why I have a Lemmy account
How does that help anyone? That would just be performative
The Democratic party is right there, and it stands for nothing. It has all the infrastructure set up already. So let’s take it.
Let’s tea party the Democratic party and force them left, kicking and screaming. Let’s build a large enough faction of actual progressives and leftists that Democrats are forced to come to the table. We flip red seats and take vacant ones. Then we primary incumbent Democrats who don’t get with the game plan
That’s what the whole fighting oligarchy tour is about
LOL
The Democratic party is right there, and it stands for nothing.
That’d be nice, but no. The Democratic Party stands for keeping leftists out of power and, if possible, keeping neoliberals in power. It’s a shit platform, but it’s there and it means they’ll fight you tooth and nail (or simply kick you out, as they’re trying to do to David Hogg) if you try to bring even center-left politics to the party.
Oh, I’m certain they’ll fight, but I’m not talking about changing the party. I’m talking about taking their base to take their seats
I’m talking about a hostile takeover, we make a big enough faction and we can take the party, along with the infrastructure and less involved voters
Why do you think they’re trying to kick out Higgs? It’s not because they think he’s more dangerous as an independent
I’m talking about a hostile takeover, we make a big enough faction and we can take the party, along with the infrastructure and less involved voters
That’d be nice, but my point is that the party will fight you tooth and nail if you try to do that, and if you choose to work within the party they’ll have a lot more leverage over you via party bylaws, appeals to party unity, etc, and they’ll use that leverage to, for example, dilute your political program and drive a rift between your base and leadership and between more and less dedicated members of the movement. These aren’t trivial concerns; handled improperly (or maybe even if handled properly) they could very well spell the end of your attempted takeover.
Why do you think they’re trying to kick out Higgs? It’s not because they think he’s more dangerous as an independent
Because he has a high-ranking office within the party and doesn’t have wide national appeal. Also note that Hoggs isn’t a leftist; he’s a liberal who simply wants Democrat gerontocrats gone. He’s running a completely different path from the one we’re talking about here, and still there’s a good chance he gets kicked out and proves my point that the DNC won’t tolerate change from within.
I think I’d rather she stay. We all wish there were an alternative, but historically third parties have not done well. Easier to get her in as the head of the thing and clean it up that way.
If we could pass Ranked Choice voting, those third and more parties could actually do something. In neighboring Idaho, there were signs trying to prevent RCV on the grounds that it was “confusing”. Propaganda gonna propaganda.
If we could pass Ranked Choice voting
Sadly, that’s not going to happen any time soon. In fact, the Republicans are even now working on passing new legislation that will ban RCV in elections for federal office. Who’s going to stop them. There are maybe half a dozen people in all of Congress that would support RCV. This bill is almost certain to be passed.
Unfortunately the Democratic establishment is against ranked choice voting just as much as the Republicans, because it would challenge the two party system.
Yep, hence my statement that there are only about half a dozen in all of Congress that support it.
Alaska and Maine have managed to get it so I think there’s still hope on that front so long as we continue to have free and fair elections…and that law doesn’t pass/is struck down.
Most Dems and independents would support RCV because it increases their chances of continued power.
There has been a lot of disinformation out there about RCV so you can’t even count on support from those who would benefit if they fall for the propaganda. It is definitely an uphill battle.
Remember that half of Americans are dumb enough to vote for Trump. A lot of the other half are also just voting for their favorite letter, without any thought of who’s holding it. Even with RCV, there’s an enormous amount of work to convince people who’ve been voting for their favorite letter for decades, who’ve been told for decades that politicians are all the same, to even pay enough attention to realize there’s another option.
RCV would be a start, but the start of a similarly decades-long process. IMO, it would be easier and faster to reform Dems from within. Recruit properly progressive candidates to primary the tired, old corporate Dems, inspire some of our younger non-voters, and change the party direction. Still take a few election cycles, but you’d keep the people who just vote for their favorite letter.
Never gonna happen though, sadly. If the Dems ever turn anti corporate I’ll happily eat my hat though.
Will never happen though, sadly.
Easier to get her in as the head of the thing and clean it up that way.
Uh… What makes you think that’s ever going to happen?
Still more chance of it happening than a viable third party, that’s the argument.
Why? It’s longer and less obvious than “establish party now run for president tomorrow,” but with a progressive leftwing third party a clear path to success exists. Now technically one also exists within the Democratic Party, but to take that path you’d need to antagonize the old guard so much that you might as well not be a party member at all, and they’ll still demand ideological or practical compromises to keep you in the party. This will lose you legitimacy with your base in the same way many progressives are souring on AOC, either significantly curtailing the effort or destroying it entirely. The problem with working within the party is simple: You’ll never get anything done by appeasing neoliberals.
to take that path you’d need to antagonize the old guard so much that you might as well not be a party member at all, and they’ll still demand ideological or practical compromises to keep you in the party
You have to do this regardless. You cannot have a viable third party without pulling a majority of Democratic voters away from the existing party. There simply isn’t enough votes to beat the GOP by starting a new progressive only party. And if you think you’re gonna pull conservative voters, hello Kamala Harris’ campaign manager.
We have a greater advantage in the primaries than we do during the general election, but my fellow progressives just refuse to fucking show up. Bernie absolutely could have won ,even with the DNC putting their thumb on the scale. You can say it’s rigged against us, but the numbers don’t lie, progressive voters haven’t shown up to vote and it only benefits the GOP.
You have to do this regardless.
Of course, but my point is that if they’re gonna hate your guts and sabotage you anyway, you might as well make sure you have a free hand to take them on rather than pointlessly try to appease them. This way you give them less leverage over you, or in other words you don’t give them consent to sabotage you to their heart’s content. Of course they can still try, but for example tools like party bylaws and appeals to party unity cease to mean shit. This is crucial because while neoliberals like to play dumb, they’re not dumb; when they come to wreck your movement they’re going to go for the jugular. See for example how AOC lost the Democratic Socialists of America’s endorsement by compromising on Israel and how the DNC is trying to kick David Hoggs out of the party. The way I see it is that while there are a few paths for a progressive group trying to take over/cannibalize the Democratic Party, all of them are mutually exclusive with compromise with neoliberals.
Bernie absolutely could have won ,even with the DNC putting their thumb on the scale. You can say it’s rigged against us, but the numbers don’t lie, progressive voters haven’t shown up to vote and it only benefits the GOP.
Sounds about right but can you provide those numbers?
Establishing a party is very hard, in a country as big as the US it takes decades.
On the other hand, the political establishment will push back against a third party outside the Democratic Party just as much as inside. I honestly don’t know what’s the right path.
America has FPTP—she loses any practical chance of influence if she does that. Unless you vote for one of the main two parties, you create the same outcome as if you voted for the party you like least.
The better bet is to push her up to the top of the party and drag it kicking and screaming leftward. Then frankly, start pushing for voting reform to fix this problem
There is no reforming a right wing party or pushing politicians left. The only influence in DC is money, they don’t give a flying fuck what we think
So do what AOC did and get involved in changing it then? It’s certainly more left with her in it than not—imagine if half the party was made up with people with more left wing views. I do not understand why so many of you guys are so inert on this.
The alternative is revolution, and given that involves personal sacrifice in the most hyper-individualist country on the planet, you’re going to have an uphill struggle with getting enough people together to even make the news.
One option is a practical thing you can actually do, without having to wait for anyone else, to start on a path of improving things to align with your views. The other is basically waiting and hoping things eventually get so bad it short-circuits the capitalist propaganda that’s been shoved down every American’s throat since they could breathe. Then that you can get enough people together for a violent revolution at all, let alone enough for one to be successful.
Frankly, if you’re waiting anyway, you may as well get involved in the thing you can do today. Even if at the very least just to get voting reform done—then you can at least vote for a third party and benefit from that vote, could even be a vanguard party!
So do what AOC did and get involved in changing it then?
The party is still republican-lite, but now it’s your fault for not being involved enough.
I live in the UK, my impact has its limits. I’m involved in my country though
Chumming up to the Cheney’s isn’t Republican lite. That’s just a slip away from Trump.
is this still about being cisgender
They love their chains
agreed, the Dems are beyond redemption. Hard to stomach all the replies here, implication being that after enduring 4 more years of Trump we’re faced with another neoliberal smiley gladhand who will say some of the right things but work only to maintain the status quo and corporate hegemony. But alas, we can’t have meaningful change until people come around to the reality of what the Dems and Repugs have been doing since the 1970s.
Wake up you fucking jackasses, Dems are not going to save you.
It’s just mass delusion at this stage if anyone believes the democrats will embrace leftism.
