How does that help anyone? That would just be performative
The Democratic party is right there, and it stands for nothing. It has all the infrastructure set up already. So let’s take it.
Let’s tea party the Democratic party and force them left, kicking and screaming. Let’s build a large enough faction of actual progressives and leftists that Democrats are forced to come to the table. We flip red seats and take vacant ones. Then we primary incumbent Democrats who don’t get with the game plan
That’s what the whole fighting oligarchy tour is about
The Democratic party is right there, and it stands for nothing.
That’d be nice, but no. The Democratic Party stands for keeping leftists out of power and, if possible, keeping neoliberals in power. It’s a shit platform, but it’s there and it means they’ll fight you tooth and nail (or simply kick you out, as they’re trying to do to David Hogg) if you try to bring even center-left politics to the party.
I’m talking about a hostile takeover, we make a big enough faction and we can take the party, along with the infrastructure and less involved voters
That’d be nice, but my point is that the party will fight you tooth and nail if you try to do that, and if you choose to work within the party they’ll have a lot more leverage over you via party bylaws, appeals to party unity, etc, and they’ll use that leverage to, for example, dilute your political program and drive a rift between your base and leadership and between more and less dedicated members of the movement. These aren’t trivial concerns; handled improperly (or maybe even if handled properly) they could very well spell the end of your attempted takeover.
Why do you think they’re trying to kick out Higgs? It’s not because they think he’s more dangerous as an independent
Because he has a high-ranking office within the party and doesn’t have wide national appeal. Also note that Hoggs isn’t a leftist; he’s a liberal who simply wants Democrat gerontocrats gone. He’s running a completely different path from the one we’re talking about here, and still there’s a good chance he gets kicked out and proves my point that the DNC won’t tolerate change from within.
And what is the other option? Start up a third party? We don’t have time for that.
If the stars aligned, best case, it would take a bare minimum of 2 election cycles to get a party established. One to get enough seats to form a voting block and gain legitimacy to the average voter, then another to gain enough seats to be more than a side note
And meanwhile, Democrats will still exist, and since they hate the left more than fascism they’ll still fight tooth and nail.
Why? What’s the deadline? If you mean to stop fascism then either way fascism isn’t going to be stopped at the ballot box; parties and elections are day after stuff.
It kinda can… This brand of incompetent fascism at least
Who are key holders of power right now? Trump and his backers haven’t solidified their control, the military leadership is balking at the incompetence, the judiciary is realizing if they cave to Trump they’ll give up all power, and the oligarchs running the media and economy are getting cold feet
They still need Congress. And with Musk proving himself incapable of primarying anyone, the. Cracks are forming in the solid front they had initially… The tea party turned maga was able to take over the party for exactly that reason, and now Trump’s endorsement is becoming a liability. Hell, even MTG is making moves to break with Trump
We don’t have to wait for elections to make a difference. The fighting oligarchy tour is making everyone pay very careful attention to election projections - in special elections we’ve already shown the game has changed
We don’t have time, because this is our chance. Both parties are in turmoil, and the people are louder than ever. And most of what Trump has done hasn’t actually hit people yet… This summer is going to be rough
This is the greatest chance the left has had in a century. If we can lock into what we do next and unite, Trump could be stopped and the midterms could be a true tuning point. We could get the momentum to fix things
Or, we can let the democrats come back in and grandstand about civility and reaching across the isle to the monsters.
The Democratic party is going to win in a landslide the next two elections, whether in their current form or under new management
It kinda can… This brand of incompetent fascism at least
Fascism is always incompetent, and it always (when it gets to the state America is in now) succeeds despite its incompetence.
They still need Congress.
They won’t by the midterms. I’d like to remind you that Trump was inaugurated only three and a half months ago. He still has almost 7 times as much time as has passed between Jan 20th and today before the midterms to pass his agenda, and project 2025 is 42% done. They’re trying to pass the SAVE act, striking a deal with Rwanda to ramp up deportations and now intimidating the judiciary. This is a lot farther along than you seem to be thinking. By the midterms, Trump will have the infrastructure in place to claim the election is stolen and declare martial law if he doesn’t get his way.
So… Have you given up on all bloodless paths? In that case, why worry about the Democratic party at all?
We’re too late to avoid mass suffering. We’re to late to go back to normal. We’re not too late to ride the wave to somewhere better.
There’s no giving up. That’s just letting the fascists win. Things look bad, things are going to get worse… But it’s far from over
We have to pursue all paths, all the time. We have to look for the cracks. The midterms are way too late to save us… But the pressure of the upcoming midterms are felt today, they can force resistance today
How does that help anyone? That would just be performative
The Democratic party is right there, and it stands for nothing. It has all the infrastructure set up already. So let’s take it.
Let’s tea party the Democratic party and force them left, kicking and screaming. Let’s build a large enough faction of actual progressives and leftists that Democrats are forced to come to the table. We flip red seats and take vacant ones. Then we primary incumbent Democrats who don’t get with the game plan
That’s what the whole fighting oligarchy tour is about
That’d be nice, but no. The Democratic Party stands for keeping leftists out of power and, if possible, keeping neoliberals in power. It’s a shit platform, but it’s there and it means they’ll fight you tooth and nail (or simply kick you out, as they’re trying to do to David Hogg) if you try to bring even center-left politics to the party.
Oh, I’m certain they’ll fight, but I’m not talking about changing the party. I’m talking about taking their base to take their seats
I’m talking about a hostile takeover, we make a big enough faction and we can take the party, along with the infrastructure and less involved voters
Why do you think they’re trying to kick out Higgs? It’s not because they think he’s more dangerous as an independent
That’d be nice, but my point is that the party will fight you tooth and nail if you try to do that, and if you choose to work within the party they’ll have a lot more leverage over you via party bylaws, appeals to party unity, etc, and they’ll use that leverage to, for example, dilute your political program and drive a rift between your base and leadership and between more and less dedicated members of the movement. These aren’t trivial concerns; handled improperly (or maybe even if handled properly) they could very well spell the end of your attempted takeover.
Because he has a high-ranking office within the party and doesn’t have wide national appeal. Also note that Hoggs isn’t a leftist; he’s a liberal who simply wants Democrat gerontocrats gone. He’s running a completely different path from the one we’re talking about here, and still there’s a good chance he gets kicked out and proves my point that the DNC won’t tolerate change from within.
And what is the other option? Start up a third party? We don’t have time for that.
If the stars aligned, best case, it would take a bare minimum of 2 election cycles to get a party established. One to get enough seats to form a voting block and gain legitimacy to the average voter, then another to gain enough seats to be more than a side note
And meanwhile, Democrats will still exist, and since they hate the left more than fascism they’ll still fight tooth and nail.
We don’t have time or other options.
Why? What’s the deadline? If you mean to stop fascism then either way fascism isn’t going to be stopped at the ballot box; parties and elections are day after stuff.
It kinda can… This brand of incompetent fascism at least
Who are key holders of power right now? Trump and his backers haven’t solidified their control, the military leadership is balking at the incompetence, the judiciary is realizing if they cave to Trump they’ll give up all power, and the oligarchs running the media and economy are getting cold feet
They still need Congress. And with Musk proving himself incapable of primarying anyone, the. Cracks are forming in the solid front they had initially… The tea party turned maga was able to take over the party for exactly that reason, and now Trump’s endorsement is becoming a liability. Hell, even MTG is making moves to break with Trump
We don’t have to wait for elections to make a difference. The fighting oligarchy tour is making everyone pay very careful attention to election projections - in special elections we’ve already shown the game has changed
We don’t have time, because this is our chance. Both parties are in turmoil, and the people are louder than ever. And most of what Trump has done hasn’t actually hit people yet… This summer is going to be rough
This is the greatest chance the left has had in a century. If we can lock into what we do next and unite, Trump could be stopped and the midterms could be a true tuning point. We could get the momentum to fix things
Or, we can let the democrats come back in and grandstand about civility and reaching across the isle to the monsters.
The Democratic party is going to win in a landslide the next two elections, whether in their current form or under new management
Fascism is always incompetent, and it always (when it gets to the state America is in now) succeeds despite its incompetence.
They won’t by the midterms. I’d like to remind you that Trump was inaugurated only three and a half months ago. He still has almost 7 times as much time as has passed between Jan 20th and today before the midterms to pass his agenda, and project 2025 is 42% done. They’re trying to pass the SAVE act, striking a deal with Rwanda to ramp up deportations and now intimidating the judiciary. This is a lot farther along than you seem to be thinking. By the midterms, Trump will have the infrastructure in place to claim the election is stolen and declare martial law if he doesn’t get his way.
So… Have you given up on all bloodless paths? In that case, why worry about the Democratic party at all?
We’re too late to avoid mass suffering. We’re to late to go back to normal. We’re not too late to ride the wave to somewhere better.
There’s no giving up. That’s just letting the fascists win. Things look bad, things are going to get worse… But it’s far from over
We have to pursue all paths, all the time. We have to look for the cracks. The midterms are way too late to save us… But the pressure of the upcoming midterms are felt today, they can force resistance today
LOL