E-bikes are perhaps the most important evolution cycling has made since the invention of the mountain bike because e-bikes get more people on bikes. And more people on bikes is an amazing thing.
I have to assume that mountain bikes make the list for the same reason, in which case I disagree - more people on mountain bikes made biking as a whole seem more like exercise than the great form of active transportation it always was. Then again, I’m open to hear what’s supposed to be so great about them, I never rode one.
Don’t get me wrong, mountain biking as a sport is great. Just going out and enjoying cycling as leisure is great as well. But I wouldn’t call the invention of the mountain bike a great leap forward for cycling.
every time i see e-bike discourse it’s some of the most inane nonsense i’ve ever read, without fail the people who complain about e-bikes are doing the exact same thing drivers do to cyclists as a whole and somehow they are incapable of self-reflection to realize this.
small electric vehicles are good, being a dick to others on the streets is bad, it’s not fucking rocket science. I don’t give a singular fuck what you’re riding in the bike path so long as it’s small enough, quiet enough, and you go a reasonable speed.
Here in sweden it’s become quite normal to have small electric moped cars (yes that’s how we define them) use the wider bike paths when convenient and like… it’s a slight annoyance at worst, because they’re work vehicles and the drivers know they’re being a bit cheeky by using the bike path and thus they try very hard to be considerate.
Ebikes are so insanely good for hauling groceries and city activities, even with a radius in the dozens of miles.
If you told me to bike up an 18% grade hill loaded down with 1-2 bags of heavy groceries, including stuff like milk, I would have told you I had to drive before I got my ebike, haha. I’ve put over 1,500 miles on my ebikes in under a year of ownership!
It is stupidly good at carrying stuff around. And it makes finding parking super easy, even at very popular areas such as beaches or pools.
I have a city ebike for errands, friends, and exploring, and a traditional mountain bike for downhill and singletrack. Both are so fun and really explore the breadth of what bikes can do.
Can’t argue with the base premise. But here in Toronto it’s the ebike wild West. Where no law is enforced.
Folks are ripping by in the bike lanes on 100lb electric mopeds with throttles and fold away pedals. I’ve seen bikes where the chain is rusted off but the “bike” happily zips past a grandma on dutch bike at 35kph.
Recently the transit commission finally banned ebikes on the subway because they were lighting trains on fire.
All I ask is that ebikes are limited to pedal assist and have a weight limit. But I think the genie is out of the bottle.
Anyway. I’ve got opinions.
Where are all these ebikes setting the trains in fire. Should be lots of stories about it if it’s always happening.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10199944/e-bike-fire-ttc-subway-safety-concerns/
🤷
Listen it’s not endemic.
But it has happens.
These motorcycle sized bikes on the subway are pretty obnoxious. They take up a ton of room
Pedal assist and max speed that pedal assist works until (I want to say 18kph, but I might be wrong) is how it works in Japan and it seems to work fairly well. Anything bigger or with a throttle must have a plate and be registered as a moped.
That is roughly the rule in the UK but few people follow it and enforcement is minimal. Plus a lot of people just don’t understand the laws on them in the first place.
It got to be such a problem in the big cities, especially with those rental scooter (as in kickboards or whatever, not actual motorbike-style vehicles), that they cracked down hard. A Chinese tourist even got arrested for using one of those powered suitcase things that exist for running afoul of the law (particularly because it was on a sidewalk).
I think we should just ban non-assist from the bike lanes and paths. I’m fine with them existing, just not fine with irresponsible people endangering others by cruising at car speeds in pedestrian zones.
In the UK they already are, but the problem is mainly with lacking enforcement and a large number of people driving them illegally.
wouldn’t it make more sense to just put a proper enforced speed limit on bike paths and pedestrian areas?
Maybe? It depends on what the speed limit is and what enforcement looks like.
I can get up to 20mph (30+ kmh) on my non-assist bite, faster when going downhill, yet most people cruise at 10-15 mph. If we set it too low, it’ll discourage use for regular transportation, like commuting, and if we set it too high, it doesn’t solve the problem.
And for enforcement, there’s no way police will be stationed there, and camera surveillance is difficult, so it’s unlikely to happen.
I just see the whole thing as problematic, so either don’t enforce anything or enforce vehicle types.
Yes, I’m sure they will hire hundreds of bike cops to enforce this, instead of just banning all ebikes.
People need to understand that the emoped crowd is actively harming this micro mobility movement by hiding behind the “ebikes” label. Anyone who gets real value out of responsible pedelec operation should be very upset about this.
I think no one disputes that we need a clear separation of electric bicycles and electric motorcycles and the presence of pedals ain’t enough.
Presumably once that’s sorted out, e-bikes can and should become the norm. They’re the “all ages and abilities” equalizer.
Not sure if that’s even possible here.
It feels like every Uber Eats delivery person is on one of these things.
They are everywhere.
I imagine we could grandfather in existing vehicles somehow, maybe by distributing stickers for existing owners. I dunno.
But it would kill the gig economy here, I feel like the electric motorcycle problem might be here to stay.
Or announce the law before it comes into effect, you have a certain amount of time to make your bike compliant, replace it or stop using it. Assuming you don’t already have laws for it. UK already does and just doesn’t really enforce them much.
I don’t think so. Sure first step is regularizing sales and not going after existing owners, and the ones already on the streets are a long term problem, but these things will eventually break down, they don’t last generations.
All I ask is that ebikes are limited to pedal assist and have a weight limit.
Does the weight limit include the rider? If not, then it doesn’t really help/change anything. There’s no difference between a 30lb bike ridden by a 300lb person and an 80lb bike ridden by a a 250lb person. It’s still 330lbs total in a collision.
I’m personally pro-throttle, even though I rarely use it. Had to stop hard and went halfway over the bars injuring my leg; it was nice to be able to get home when I wasn’t really able to pedal.
Why are your example humans a heavyweight boxer and a sumo wrestler? Wikipedia says the average North American human adult weighs 180lbs.
Now consider half the population are women.
Worst case scenario. Those are common Max weight ratings for bikes.
My point being, should there be a maximum gross weight restriction? Does it apply to just the bike, or to the rider too, and what about the weight of cargo strapped to the bike? How about a bicycle built for two, does the weight limit double or is it still one bike?
I don’t mean to argue against your point (I wouldn’t know); I was just very tickled by the image of a huge beefy man on a tiny little bike.
Are bicycles built for two safe in the first place?
Like every other time I ride the major trail near me, I see an old couple in their 60s+ riding a bicycle built for two, and they don’t seem to have any problems aside from getting started from a dead stop.
I would think they’re fine as long as there aren’t any shoddy welds. And there has to be good communication between the riders since front rider steers and rear rider has the brakes.
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Tern and aventon max at 440lbs and iirc even Walmart tier mongoose makes a cargo bike that goes to like 400lbs
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Yeah, might just be the client I’m using that let’s me see deleted posts and reply to them.
Only semi-related but: The only people I’ve heard say e-bikes aren’t real bikes are people who don’t own bikes of either kind.
My primary mode of transportation is a bike and IMO not all e-bikes are real bikes.
Pedal-assist sure but if there is a throttle (and pedaling is optional) then I consider it a moped.
Not that I’m opposed to mopeds…
That’s true. We don’t have throttle-controlled bikes here because they are legally considered mofas, but mofas with pedals basically don’t exist here so there’s no overlap.
What’s a mofa ?
In Denmark, a mofa is a 25 kmh limited moped-style vehicle and a license can be acquired extremely easily and at a younger age than other licenses. It is treated almost like a bicycle in traffic in that it shares most laws and goes on the bicycle paths. A moped is 45 kmh limited and requires a far more expensive license. They are explicitly not allowed on bicycle paths and follow rules more akin to a motorcycle.
Historically, mofas used to not require a license and were smaller with pedals connected to the rear axle. Now mofas have no pedals and are just mopeds with a much lower speed limit.
Basically a moped but slightly different such that I wasn’t able to find a 1:1 translation. It’s a German abbreviation for motor bicycle and they are limited to 25 km/h.
Most of them that say that to me are superhuman athletes.
There’s no ebike with a hundred mile range, and these guys are doing 24 hour races and cross country tours. So after a short while it just becomes a lead weight in the frame.
There are quite a few ebikes with 100+ mile range, you only need maybe 1500-2000Wh to do 100 miles.
Could get longer ranges like that with a battery pack that can be disconnected and swapped, or connect multiple on the bike and switch the cable over when one is low.
Actually seen an electric motorcycle built like that, it can carry 2 batteries if you want a second one but it uses most of your internal storage space.
Nope. I own four real bicycles. Electric motorcycles are not real bicycles.
I hope you’ll make it through whatever you’re going through! ❤️
Park your motorcycle inside
I don’t own any motor vehicles :)
A motor is a device that converts electrical energy to mechanical energy. Do you own an ebike with an electric motor in it?
I chose my wording very carefully to avoid confusing you and yet you manage.
No, I don’t own any vehicles propelled by motor.
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No one was talking about electric motorcycles so that checks out.
Ebikes are electric motorcycles.
[citation needed]
Single track vehicles that use motors or engines to move are motorcycles.
That is not a citation
Honestly, even light electric motorcycles are a huge improvement over cars. My ebike-from-a-kit goes about 30mph and runs off a throttle. I generally ride on the road (city streets) and avoid sidewalks when at all possible. It’s fun to ride, doesn’t need gas, and is super-efficent when it comes to electricity (far more efficient than an electric car). I can park it way more easily than I can park a car, and it’s great for short trips where taking the car is unjustified but it’s too far to easily walk. 10/10 would recommend. Would also do whatever training/registering/licensing is required, but right now I live somewhere where regulations either don’t exist or exist but aren’t enforced.
even light electric cars are a huge improvement, a light electric motorcycle is an improvement so tremendous that it’s difficult to comprehend, and actual e-bikes? transcendent.
In Europe, ebikes just make pedalling slightly easier (or much easier depending on the level of assist you pick). Assist cuts off past a certain speed, normally around 25 km/h. They’re bicycles designed for use in normal clothes so that you aren’t sweaty on arrival even if you’re going on top of a hill.
Apparently in the US, ebikes are anything with an electric motor and two wheels that doesn’t go too fast, whether you pedal or not.
So it’s two very different approaches. The US lumps what the EU separates in several categories into a single one. Here they would be ebikes, “sports ebikes” (fast, can’t be ridden on general roads) and electric mopeds which are treated more or less the same as gas powered ones. Only the first properly qualify as bicycles.
Apparently in the US, ebikes are anything with an electric motor and two wheels that doesn’t go too fast, whether you pedal or not.
Incorrect. Some people might call them that but we have definitions, legal and otherwise.
Apparently in the US, ebikes are anything with an electric motor and two wheels
It’s anything with an electric motor and pedals
I have an ebike with both pedal assist and throttle (that I could theoretically change the speed limiter setting above 35km/h). But in day to day riding, I frequently get passed by people riding thinner wheeled road bikes.
I don’t want to have to shower every time after pedaling to work. I love being able to get two big bags of Costco groceries, strap them to my bike and not have to dread the ride home which is uphill. It’s great and sure I’m not getting tons of exercise each time, it allows me to keep going out with it a lot more than I would a normal bike. This source also corroborates the trend that e-bike riders get more exercise than conventional cyclists due to riding more.
I don’t want to have to shower every time after pedaling to work.
This is a huge advantage that removes one of the major barriers to cycling.
I love being able to get two big bags of Costco groceries, strap them to my bike and not have to dread the ride home which is uphill.
Another huge advantage!
It’s great and sure I’m not getting tons of exercise each time, it allows me to keep going out with it a lot more than I would a normal bike. This source also corroborates the trend that e-bike riders get more exercise than conventional cyclists due to riding more.
Yes, you’re still getting benefits. Anything that gets you out of a car will benefit your health!
I’m not at the point where an e-bike would provide me with overwhelming benefits (over my regular bikes and e-scooter), but I’m sure I’ll get to the point where they’ll make sense for my needs.
This is a huge advantage that removes one of the major barriers to cycling.
Nah man, where I live you will be sweating buckets after standing in place outside for 3 minutes.
But there’s a difference between being the only one who’s sweaty because you took your bike, and everyone is sweaty because it’s hot and humid no matter what you take 😂
Not hot and sweaty if I take my car :)
Yeah, but then you’ll arrive at your destination angry and will still need to find time to get some activities in. 🤭
Nope.
Not on mopeds where all you have to do is pull the throttle. Don’t kid yourself.
you definitely still get more exercise on a moped, because you’re not just sitting reclined in a sofa on wheels. on 2-wheeled vehicles your body is always undergoing some amount of motion even if it’s very minimal, it’s like how just standing still is way better than sitting down.
And if a vehicle has pedals you’re most likely going to be spinning them even if there’s no actual resistance, which is in itself genuinely proper exercise.
I mean sure but my comment is not about mopeds, it’s about e-bikes. I could in theory use my bike like one, since it has a throttle, but relying only on that would mean I get less than 1/3 of the usual range, so I don’t. I do use the throttle to keep my speed consistent (especially around impatient motorists), get over the first hard pedal cycle at a stop, and on hills as I pedal.
The article is talking about users like you unfortunately, conflating e-bikes and mopeds.
If you need a throttle to start from a stop then you are either in the wrong gear, or your bike is too heavy.
It’s a 50lbs (23kg) foldable bike. It’s only a need to the extent I’m trying not to be sweaty getting to work. Stopping and starting will get me sweaty on a normal pedal assist since it doesn’t immediately kick in.
If it has a throttle, it’s a moped by definition of EU law. I’m just highlighting, that yes, the paper does mention pedal assist, but elektrek is a website with an agenda (selling more electric bikes and cars) and while they highlight pedal assists vs throttle on their article as well somewhere between the lines, the headline is clearly meant to catch people thinking they are good by riding a throttle “ebike” in North America.
What’s the point arguing what’s “real” cycling.
Are people out and about on a bike? Are they having fun? Are they avoiding driving heavy vehicles?
Then who cares.
I used to be a gate keeping manual bike snob, but within a matter of weeks of getting an electric cargo bike I was converted to an eBike evangelist. They are just great sub-type of bike making cycling more accessible and easier to replace a car (at least in Northern Europe). Big fan… but of course I do still love getting silly on an all carbon racer!
Depends on the context. There are scenarios that exist outside of just fun.
Are they failing to yield? Yes. Are they traveling too fast on pedestrian trails? Yes. Are they unable to properly control their electric motorcycles? Yes
And all those apply to regular bikes also. So what’s your point.
They’re real and they’re spectacular
What does “real” even mean in this context? Is the alternative that they’re counterfeits?
Look up “no true Scotsman” and you’ll understand.
Nope. Electric motorcycle riders need to learn and adhere to basic manners and trail etiquette.
Ebikes are mopeds, or basically tiny motorcycles.
I see inexperienced riders get on these things with just light bike helmets (or no helmet) & tear down the street at dangerous speeds.
I think ebikes are good, but they need to be treated as motorized vehicles, because they are.
EDIT: yeah this article is written by an experienced cyclist who just skips right over the danger of n00bs ripping down the road @ 20 mph.
Also the idea ebikes aren’t mopeds because they lack a throttle is semantics horseshit.
Really depends on the ebike. Mine and the bike share ones around me are primarily just pedal assit, meaning that it helps you pedal.
If it has a throttle it’s definitely leaning towards moped territory. However, while mine has a throttle, it really struggles to get going and maxes out at 20mph.
My Tern S20 is an ebike, and is most certainly not a moped. Part of the problem is that we’re lumping all varieties of ebike into a single category, when we should be breaking them out into classes based on capability.
Give me a hill and I can get most regular bikes to over 20mph. My road bike gets to faster than my ebike given enough of a hill (tires are likely the difference here). In live in Iowa - and area with a well earned reputation of being flat, and I can still find the above hills, I suspect most inexperienced cyclists live with more hills and so will have less issues than me getting “high” speeds.
We need to make cycling gear safe for regular bikes, and it will automatically cover ebikes.
Yes, you can go very fast on hills riding traditional bikes, which is why hills are dangerous & most cyclists handle them carefully.
Ebikes can cruise @ relatively high speeds even on flat ground.
I honestly think most folks haven’t had a cycling accident since they were very young & don’t realize how brutal they are as adults.
EDIT: Just as an aside, people that ride those motorized single wheel things are friggin nuts! Imagine crashing on one of those goddamn!
This sounds wrong. Most regular bikes can go faster than E-Bikes even on flat ground but at least here in Germany most E-Bikes I’ve seen are limited to 25kph which is slower than the 20mph you mentioned. Currently i wish i had one because I’m recovering from a sickness and don’t want to get on my regular bike for my work route as to not damage my heart, so now I’m stuck with the train
