Summary
Trump just presided over one of the greatest diplomatic disasters in modern history, with flared tempers, raised voices, and shredded protocol.
Never before has a U.S. president bullied and berated an adversary, never mind an ally, in such a public way.
During a tense Oval Office meeting, Trump and JD Vance attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, demanding he accept a peace deal with Russia or lose U.S. support.
The conversation devolved into shouting, with Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being ungrateful and “gambling with World War III.”
The meeting ended in chaos, with no agreement reached.
I’m ready to protest this shit. Tell me when and where to show up, my local big city or state capital. This is some bullshit. Trump and Vance are egotistical dickheads. Ukraine are our allies! Imagine George Washington doing this with Marquis de Lafayette, or FDR with Churchill!! Unspeakable!
Just show up, invite others, everyone is waiting for someone else to do something (present company included).
Why would any nation that does not have nukes not start making nukes right now?
The USA has shown over and over, it’s the only thing we take seriously. We don’t give a fuck until you have nukes. We don’t care about treaties, alliances, deals. We only care if you can start the nuke wars. Anything else is just “how can we take advantage of you?”
Also … World, I understand you’re not reading this, but for the three of ya that do, boycott us. Tariff the shit out of us. You got this, and thanks for all the fish.
Unfortunately Ukraine was part of the Budapest Memorandum. With this they gave up their nuclear armament in an agreement that "prohibited Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom and France from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, “except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.”
So they gave up their nukes with the agreement that they would be safe from these 4 groups. However that didn’t do shit for them, thus a huge reason why any SeasFire would have to have some big security backing. As Russia has ignored all prior agreements.
Exactly why the lesson any other non-nuclear armed country should learn is to get the nukes
It’s too hard. Yeah, we understand the required specs, but the precision machines and rare ores are internationally monitored. Tom Clancy’s The Sum of All Fears was eye opening as to what the terrorists had to go through to make a single bomb. And it fizzled into a “normal” atom bomb.
And I’m not even talking about the experts involved, a physics degree ain’t gonna get it. The precision machining for the tooling alone is mind blowing, then you gotta fab the actual parts. Again, you’re not getting people like that in a room with a LinkedIn ad, and it would be noticed, very noticed, if you tried.
Now if you want to skip 3-stage hydrogen bombs and just roll an atom bomb, still tough, but much more doable.
tl;dr: The nuclear powers would come down on you like a ton of bricks if a country even tried starting a program. See: Iran.
See Pakistan.
Shit can work out. Russia has plenty of peeps looking for seedy revenue streams
As an American,
What you say feels right, and it is breaking my heart
Prof. John Mearshmeyer have been talking about great power’s expansionism and it’s relation to nuclear armament since at least 2015.
I think “tried to bully Zelensky” would have been a little more accurate. Of course Trump and Vance failed at that too. All they’re good at is manipulating the most stupid people on the planet. If I was morally depraved, I bet I could do it pretty easily too.
As much as this makes me hate Donald Trump more than I already did, which was already more than I hate almost anyone, the really horrific thing is that a decent fraction of Americans will look at this and think Trump made the right decision, or at least a brave, or reasonable, decision.
True, but I don’t think it matters any more what they think. They are a cult, and we cannot salvage this situation by swaying them. We have to act accordingly. They just need to be mowed down if they get in the way.
The straight to not knee this fatfuck retards head in while sitting so close to him must be immense.
“Peace deal” means surrender now, don’t join NATO, and get invaded again in a few years.
TBH idk how Zelenskyy thought things would go any differently.
I doubt he thought it would go differently. But he did an amazing job showing the world how utterly depraved Trump and Vance are. There can be no question now that they are Putin stooges. The United States lost the cold war, Putin won without firing a single bullet. It is out in the open.
He probably fired quite a few bullets, but I get you.
So word is that the more the US mistreats Z, the more the European people like him, and want to support him. So this was probably a great outcome fir them. The deal offered was very one sided. Had Z just not taken it, people would blame him. But now, everyone knows who to blame.
I understand you mean Zelenskyy, but you are using Russian dog whistles, by referring to him as Z. Z = the Russian version of calling people Nazis because they opposed Putin.
Tagged, and watching to see who you are. Especially with that extremely sus UN.
Wrote up a summary months ago (with reputable sources!) about this stuff, and was permabanned from Lemmy news and politics for it.
Idk man, you can tell people stuff, but it’s so hard for them to access what’s real right now. There’s a concerted online effort to suppress factual info.
hey! I remember you! I saved your whole comment.
your comment made me think something worse was on the way and made me start to prepare.
thanks!
Good, that is the point, I want people to be safe, stay alive, have food to eat and homes to live in. Take care!
The trouble is that this was probably intentional, you can see the vp is literally an attack dog in this case, but I still think it’s likely that if zelensky stroked trumps ego it wouldn’t have ended that way. It’s like trump is pro Russia but also narcissistic and they are sometimes at odds.
It’s been a while since I’ve gone through a whole day being proud of my US citizenship. Today was one of the most shameful.
Honestly. I’ve never been more ashamed. I wish I could help end this shit, ya know?
This is disgraceful and would’ve never happen in the old days. On the other hand, I even appreciate the public show of arguing before plainly betraying an ally. Like what we did with Gaddafi or Hussein. That was some cold -blooded bully shit.
Same. What an awful day to be a sane American.
They can’t even look him in the eye. They know he’s telling the truth and they’re full of shit.
Finally a f**king actual headline. That was a disaster and a disgrace for all Americans. I can’t take these meek be “explosive White House meeting, where maybe Trump was possibly speaking angrily, but please Mr. Trump don’t sue us, if you disagree!”
Word
Any links to the moment or moments? Or did they bury this already? I was busy when it happened and then several of my engineering and science friends came into my lab and they were all talking about it.
It is not our place to fund their war and their country any longer. Americans need help and those hundreds of billions could be helping our people. If Ukraine wants to continue fighting then do it without US support.
(Should be obv, but this excludes Zelenskyy)
Edit: wtf why is it so hard to insert gifs
totally not a russian dog
I just can’t understand why Vance would interpret Zelenskyy as being disrespectful for politely, calmly, and carefully articulating his point of view on how diplomacy has failed him and his country. Vance seems like the type of person I would basically laugh at and walk away from if I were in a situation to have to hear him be “alpha and in-charge”.
It was like watching a scene from an episode of a reality TV show from the early 2000s.
It was like watching a scene from an episode of a reality TV show from the early 2000s.
That’s not a coincidence.
Because they went in wanting to find a way to make Zelenskyy seem unreasonable. They have no intention of helping Ukraine at all and now it’s going to be because he didn’t immediately kiss Trumps feet.
He didn’t, he was just saying that it was disrespectful cause he wanted to show what a good little bitch he is.
