I know this topic has been discussed a lot before, but in my opinion there is no simple answer to this question.

Lately, I have been a bit disappointed with my Nikon DSLR kit (D3200) and thus I’ve been considering an upgrade. I got it many years ago, and it is undoubtedly a great, affordable camera that produces great images. I’ve had lots of fun with it and I can’t complain about its performance when shooting – given ideal conditions. When I am shooting more challenging subjects, however, I feel a bit hindered by my camera body/system. The points that bother me the most are:

  1. Size. The D3200 is a very nice, compact, and lightweight DSLR, but it is still relatively big compared to modern cameras. It won’t fit in a jacket pocket even without an attached lens. More current cameras with a higher image quality can be smaller than it is (but heavier). The situation is even worse for higher-end DSLRs.
  2. Autofocus. Again, the D3200 is a fantastic camera if you are just using the center focus spot using the optical viewfinder and nothing else. Live view (contrast) focus is straight up unusable, and there are only 11 (phase) focus points or so if using the viewfinder. At least that’s the case with “ordinary” Nikon lenses. I don’t know how it performs with higher-end lenses, like the Sigma Art line.
  3. “Low light” performance. I can’t bump the ISO significantly before image degradation becomes obvious. Low light in quotes because that’s the case even in fairly well-lit situations. Occasionally, I like to print on medium-sized paper (A3+), and if I need anything above ISO 400 to properly expose the image, it won’t look that good printed. Of course, I can always stick to printing bright images large and save the “low light” scenes to smaller prints, so this isn’t really my main concern.
  4. Custom controls. I wish I could customize the camera settings a bit more. For example, on my camera, the back button AF/AE can be set to lock the AF/AE or as a back button focus. But in image preview mode, the same button “locks” the image so it can’t be deleted. Thus, you need to quit image preview before using that button to trigger autofocus again. I would like to have a dedicated AF button so I can shoot straight from image preview if the opportunity arises. Another example of customization I can’t do: settings like auto-ISO and shutter speed can’t be capped/limited to a certain range. Let’s say I want to use auto-ISO but prevent it from going above 400 to avoid too much noise (and decrease shutter speed but risk shaky images). Or the opposite: prevent the shutter speed in aperture priority mode from going below 1/100 to avoid shaky images and then change ISO instead. Well, I can’t do either at the moment. Again, a nice feature to have, but totally something I can live with.

From what I have seen, cameras nowadays have gotten pretty good and they do look like a significant upgrade from 10-15 year old bodies. I guess all popular, entry-level, modern cameras (2019-) solve at least 3 of the 4 problems I listed above, so I don’t think I can go wrong with any big brand. However, I’m having a hard time deciding with so many options and sensor size/formats available. My options so far are:

  1. Nikon Z. Since I am already familiar with Nikon F lenses, I have read a lot about them and I know the strengths and weaknesses of many of those. That means I likely won’t be disappointed if I switch to another system, and I want a certain lens that doesn’t exist, or the optical performance is poor, or it is prohibitively expensive. The Z50, Z5, and Z6 all look amazing, and I can pick or switch between a full frame or cropped sensor easier than I would if I was stuck with a micro four thirds. They are more affordable than Sony.
  2. Sony. They seem to be fantastic cameras, with great image quality and features. Sigma and Tamron options for Nikon are likely available for Sony as well. I’m just slightly afraid that lenses might be too expensive for what they offer. Their cameras look super compact and pocketable, which is a huge plus to me. Full frame (A7iii) or cropped (A6400) are also both available for a seamless transition.
  3. Olympus. I think it is impossible to beat micro four thirds in size and affordability. It is perhaps the only system where you can get a wide angle, portrait, fast prime, macro, and telephoto that you can take everywhere in a small bag while not costing you a fortune. They also have pretty nice features, such as the “live mode”/“smartphone photography”, where you can get a frame that was captured slightly before the shutter button was pressed. This must be so cool for wildlife. Olympus stabilization is also highly regarded, with people claiming it to be “gimbal-like”. The E-M5 iii looks very appealing. My main concern is that I’ve never used a micro four thirds before and thus I don’t know how much I’m letting go in image quality. I already feel that the dynamic range I get with the D3200 rocking a larger, cropped sensor could be better.

I am not considering:

  1. Canon. I completely disagree with their “no third party lenses” policy. To me, that is unacceptable.
  2. Fujifilm. There are barely any telephoto options and they are one of my favorite lens types to use.
  3. Panasonic. I like what I read about the Lumix cameras, but they seem to be behind Olympus regarding micro four third still-focused cameras (apart from the G9). And I don’t know much about the L-mount.
  4. Hasselblad, Leica, etc. Too expensive. I want something that I can take with me everywhere and not worry too much if it gets damaged.

I would appreciate if you all could help me figure this out! Especially people who have used more than one modern mirrorless system or have recently transitioned from DSLR to mirrorless. Many thanks in advance!

Edited to add:

I forgot to describe how exactly I use my camera. I mostly shoot:

  1. “Lifestyle” photos, like something cool I’ve seen while biking to work, walking in the park, visiting museums, etc.
  2. Hiking, biking, backpacking photos, like landscape, close ups, macro, wildlife, etc.
  3. Birds of all sizes.
  4. Occasionally, street photography if there’s some cool event going on.
  5. I do like to shoot video, so something that would be 4K capable would be great.
    • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
      1·
      5 months ago

      That’s actually a great tip! I was wondering if a trip to the store would be useful or not, because I’ll likely be buying an used and discontinued body. But I guess I can at least see how the different brands look and feel in person.

        • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
          1·
          5 months ago

          Thank you again for the tip! Yeah, specs can be read online and they are just numbers I can look up if needed. If they aren’t really that physically different, I would be interested to see how those cameras actually feel, since I’ve personally only tried out Nikon, Canon, and Sony.

  • Durandal
    5·
    5 months ago

    Just a couple minor points to add to your consideration. IDK what your budget is but buying a used flagship camera is often better than a new midrange camera. The main difference you’re going to not be able to easily compete with is newer sensor tech but there are some really stellar older cameras.

    You don’t mention what kind of photography you’re trying to do and that would make difference.

    I picked up a used canon 7D mark 2 for about $350 used it basically perfect condition. Because this was a prosumer flagship at the time it has all the bells and whistles of that era. It’s my primary wildlife camera. I picked up an Olympus OM-D E-M5 2 recently for about $450. Their prices have bumped up a lot I think because everyone is getting into street photography. I’ve been having lots of fun with it. Got a 7.5mm Rokinon fisheye and a 14-42mm zoom. Been fun doing closeups on insects and landscape stuff so far. It’s very compact and feature rich. M43 lenses are much cheaper entry point than APS-C and FF are so for just having fun it’s way cheaper to experiment. Having IBIS is really nice too.

    Both cameras have tons of customizaility. They aren’t the low light champs a full frame would be but getting some faster primes has helped with that. I picked one up from UsedPhotoPro and the other from MPB. They do a good job going over the cameras and showing you the exact one you’re purchasing and they offer 6-12 month guarantees on all the stuff they sell which is nice.

    It sounds like you really want something lighter weight so M43 might be a good way to go. There are some really nice cameras in M43. The prices even new are less. Flagship Sony, canon, Nikon are all in that 5-7000 range and flagship Olympus and Panasonic are like 2000-2500 new. Something I decided was to get a used M43 knowing that because it’s an open standard any lenses I got would mostly work between Olympus and Panasonic if I upgraded to a new body. It’s also a good way to get a “pro” style more DSLR like body if you want and a super small pocket camera style at the same time and have a collection of lenses to choose from as the whim suits.

    –edit–

    Okay either you edited while I was typing or I didn’t see before what you said your types of photography were.

    As happy as I have been with my canon DSLR… I agree with you ( and many others ). Canon’s policy about 3rd party lenses is utter bullshit… and their first party glass is way overpriced. Only their L glass can really outshine anyone and it’s stupidly overpriced… their regular stuff you’re better with sigma and since their new R system stuff doesn’t play nice with that it’s a non-starter really. (Now if you wanted to go with DSLR, it’s a different story but those are chunky and heavy… my wildlife rig weighs 8-10lbs depending on what I bring for just the camera itself)

    With you starting your post about camera size and mentioning the nikon d3200… which isn’t a large DSLR… I really think the M43 format might be worth looking into. Another big advantage of M43 is even if the body is the same size, the lenses will be considerably smaller and lighter than comparable APS-C or FF lenses. So size and weight will be greatly reduced. The crop factor on M43 is 2x (as opposed to 1.5x nikon APS-C and 1.6x canon APS-C) so getting more “reach” with a lens for things like birds is easier with smaller focal length glass as well. Since most of them will have good IBIS since it’s easier to stabilize physically smaller sensor as well. Not that new APS-C and FF cameras can’t have good IBIS… but for example my OM-D E-M5 2 has several stops of 5 axis IBIS on a camera from 2015. I can handhold shots at 1/2 second shutter speeds. Newer cameras will be even better. For hiking et al, the smaller size and weight will be a bonus. For street photography it’s one of the go to systems because of the small size. Etc.

    The 4K video is going to be a stickier subject and looking into hybrid cameras is much trickier. I recommend checking out petapixel’s youtube. That’s where the DPReview guys ended up and their stuff is great. It focuses on both still and video so a review of anything will be well rounded. https://www.youtube.com/@PetaPixel for their older stuff DPReview is still around for now as well https://www.youtube.com/@dpreview I also really like MicroFourNerds stuff if you wanted to look at a ton of different reviews focused on M43 system. https://www.youtube.com/@MicroFourNerds

    • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
      2·
      5 months ago

      Thank you for such a great reply! I will try to address your points individually.

      First, agreed that used flagship always beats brand-new midrange. I will likely buy a higher-end (not flagship) camera used, because that’s what I do for basically everything (lenses, laptops, bikes, etc). I was a bit hesitant to state a budget because I am slightly flexible with it. However, I do not want to own a setup that costs more than $2k including everything. I was thinking about spending ~$500-750 on the body, and ~$1k-1.5k on lenses (long-term). I would like to have a compact, flexible kit lens, a long telephoto (I’m talking ~600mm equivalent), and a dedicated macro. Fast primes and pancake primes might be interesting depending on how I feel about the camera body. I know this is feasible with Nikon (given the FTZ adapter) and Olympus (as you know from experience). I am unsure about Sony.

      I will likely do the same thing as you did, and buy from MPB, KEH, Adorama, UsedPhotoPro, etc. The local shops in my area pay too little for cameras and usually charge too much unless you are patient and find a gem. Also, the no-questions-asked return policy I can get online is much better than what local shops can afford to provide.

      Second, I agree that the D3200 is a small DSLR. I’ve noticed that its size doesn’t bother me most of the time, but it isn’t a camera I can easily take with me everywhere. For example, it still can’t fit in a pocket or small bag, so I need to carry a relatively large bag to bring the camera and one extra lens with me. That is definitely not the case with feature-packed, smaller mirrorless cameras, like the Lumix GX or the Sony A6x00 series. On the other hand, I would also like to have more dynamic range and “low light” performance than the D3200 when camera size isn’t a problem. For that reason, I was considering avoiding mirrorless altogether and getting a Nikon F full-frame for situations where size isn’t a problem (D610, D750, D810), and a compact point-and-shoot to carry around at all times (Z-V1, RX100). However, two things made me think that this might not be a good idea. One reason is that “good” compact cameras nowadays are the same price as arguably better mirrorless without much compromise in size, so why even bother with a point-and-shoot? The other reason is that I wouldn’t be able to mix-and-match lenses, which would also be nice.

      Lastly, I will be sure to check out PetaPixel’s videos. I’ve seen a lot of MicroFourNerds’ content and I agree that she is great.

      I’m glad to hear you’re enjoying the E-M5ii. I was thinking about getting the E-M5iii because of the 4K video. I skipped the E-M10 line due to the lack of weather sealing and “downgraded” processor (as MicroFourNerds recommended). The E-M1 is much heavier given that it is “for pros”, so it kind of defeats the purpose of portability in my case.

      • Durandal
        2·
        5 months ago

        I agree that point and shoot or bridge cameras are a a little silly these days. I have been looking into the M43 stuff because I can add a few different sized and featured bodies while sticking with interchangeable lenses that are part of the same system. Some of the M43 bodies are absolutely tiny, especially if you’re willing to give up the viewfinder and only use the back screen.

        I saw you mention in another reply about how the newer M43 seem to be not doing compact cameras anymore. It’s hard to say if that trend will continue or not… panasonic seems to be doing more of that sort of thing still and offering things across the spectrum of use cases. I feel like the popularity of street photography right now will likely make some new compact things show up eventually. I would point out, also, that the sony a7iii you’re mentioning is basically the same physical size as the OM-1 series… but the lenses will be half the size. https://camerasize.com/compare/#777,918 so your total kit size and weight will be much smaller.

        I watched countless videos looking at little M43 cameras before I picked up the E-M5 II. The weather sealing was definitely a big bonus for a little camera. I don’t care about video at all, so I was happy to go with the slightly older version. The better hand held “high rez” on the E-M5 III is nice, though I’ve heard the build quality is a little more plasticy. Personal preference really… .it does reduce weight a bit. As for image quality… I have been very happy with my results. This is one of the first cameras where I’ve been mostly happy with the JPEGs that come directly out of camera. I still shoot RAW+JPEG but I find myself only editing occasionally when sharing which is nice.

        Don’t get me wrong, the stuff that comes out of sony SLR style cameras is really good. They definitely do some good stuff in their sensors. And if you get their G series lenses, they are very nice… but expensive. You’ve just mentioned the size and carry weight a bit and I’ve fixated on that. When I’m out birding, I always run into other people as well… and the rigs that people are carrying for sony, nikon, and canon are all the same size. A lot of people carrying 150-600 or 100-400 lenses… and they’re huge. That was one of the motivations for wanting a second camera and adding some M43 into my lineup.

        One of the things that I have done with camera and lens purchases is go to flickr. You can search hashtags by item name. So when I was looking for M43 I was comparing the omd em5 ii vs the lumix gx8… so I just searched for those and you’ll get a bunch of real world photos that people have taken to see what things looked like. Same thing for lenses… searching for a lens make and model… and you’ll see that lens how it looks on multiple different bodies. A good quick way to compare a lot of real world stuff and not the clinical shots that reviewers use. Both are useful.

        The advice I’ve always received, and it makes sense to me, is pick a lens system. Lenses hold value and last longer than camera bodies, especially with digital. So if there is a system that has a lot of lenses you like and options (seriously fck canon and their no 3rd party rules) it makes sense to get those and get a body to match.

        Good luck on the search. Try not to let the spec overload get to you… at the end of the day most cameras are pretty good these days. Once you’ve narrowed to some of the better ones, anything you choose will likely make you happy. :)

        –edit– Added a full rez image from the first day I had the EM5II taken with the 14-42mm kit lens. Unedited JPEG out of camera just so you can see the detail, as that was a concern you voiced.

        • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
          1·
          5 months ago

          Yes, I can totally see someone owning a GX8/85 and an E-M1X and pushing both to their full potential with interchangeable lenses, taking advantage of individual strengths. Should be really fun to just grab whatever fits in your bag and bring it with you.

          I also understand that the size difference between Sony full frame and Olympus M43 is ridiculous, despite bodies being the same size, if you consider the whole setup. I do own one of those huge full frame DSLR super telephoto lenses, and it isn’t exactly easy to shoot handheld. Doable, but less forgiving than a lighter setup. Moreover, I restrict its usage to birding almost exclusively, since it is a pain to carry that lens around. I’m sure image quality would be amazing if I had a nice full frame (or higher-end cropped) body to take full advantage of the lens for birding in challenging light, but I can’t help but wonder if I would bring the smaller (M43) telephoto lens with me more often if I had one. Especially so if I take into account those situations where I am not “just birding”, but walking around or hiking and I happen to spot cool birds that I’d love to photograph.

          I like the flickr advice. I will check it out for sure. It should be especially helpful when comparing similar cameras. From what I’ve seen online from other sources, Sony in particular crushes M43 for low light video, but I haven’t noticed much of a difference in stills. I guess nowadays it all boils down to personal preference. Camera Conspiracies has talked about full frame vs M43 in good light and in low light. Even though he is sometimes hard to follow due to his sarcastic style, I found those videos to be a great resource.

          Also, thank you for sharing that picture! Honestly, the high resolution mode looks great to me, I would have nothing to complain about it. I might actually consider a lower-end camera to start experimenting with another system, as another fellow commenter suggested I should do for Sony (to get an A6000).

          • Durandal
            2·
            5 months ago

            Heh yeah… my supertelephoto is a commitment. I only carry it when I know that wildlife photos are what I’m doing. Ended up getting a monopod and a peak designs slide strap to help mitigate some of the weight. So I can sling it over my shoulder and carry it on my back now which helps. Highly recommend their strap system stuff if you haven’t tried it… definitely lived up to the hype for me. I kept wanting another interchangeable lens camera for other days so M43 seemed like a good choice for my use case.

            You’re talking about wanting to do low light and particularly low light video… the newer sony stuff will just about blow anyone else away. I’ve heard good stuff about the panasonic’s newer stuff… but sony is known for that. From what I’ve seen the quality of their sensor noise when it does start showing is more pleasant… more impulse noise than color… so you’ll get salt and pepper noise which looks more like old film grain which can make things look more cinematic even.

            If you want to compare dynamic range and usable ISO, DXOmark has lots and lots of charts for that sort of thing. I wouldn’t take their stuff as the end all be all… read it more like a spec sheet so you can compare two different things. https://www.dxomark.com/sony-a6000-sensor-review-little-wonder/

            The a6xxx series definitely sits at a reasonable price point for the bodies. IDK that much about their lenses or prices for that… but it does look like you could get a body for $300-600 on mpb in excellent condition. I have heard good things about the a6xxx series as well, so it could very well be a good jumping in point if you wanted to get into their ecosystem. Looks like DPReview did a few videos about that series of cameras… I’d check those out for sure. They like to split their videos into several sections… and have equal time for stills and video which will give a really good rundown of things usually.

            • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
              1·
              5 months ago

              My next purchase if I were to keep the super telephoto would definitely be a big tripod/monopod combo. But I just sent it to KEH to fund the new body and lenses I’m getting. Let’s see how it goes. Thanks for the Peak Design strap recommendation. I have the clip and quick release anchor links, and I must say I love both accessories. I’ll make sure to check out the strap on my next trip to REI.

              Regarding shooting video, there are basically two situations where I use the video mode:

              1. Recording birds when it’s early or late in the day. For that, I would need low light performance. But even if the image is noisy, who cares. It bothers me more when my mic captures noise from other people around.

              2. B-roll for my outdoor trips (biking, hiking, snow sports, etc) to complement my action camera stuff. My gopro sucks in low light anyway, so I don’t care if my B-roll video camera is going to suck as well. I shoot in 4K on it, so I feel like action videos with some cinematic depth of field from a mirrorless camera in 4K would look very nice as B-roll.

              Actually, I just got back from my trip to the camera store to check out what they had available. I got to test Nikon, Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic. Basically all the camera models I had in mind.

              1. Nikon was the most ergonomic by far. Holding their cameras feels so comfortable and natural, it’s amazing. However, the moment I held the Z50, I noticed how it actually isn’t that much smaller compared to the D3200. I mean, yes, it is slightly smaller, but not “oh, now we pocketable”. So I checked out the Z5, which is roughly the same size as the Z50 anyway. “Go big or go home”, I guess. The full frame kit lens, however, is much bulkier than cropped. I figured the whole full frame setup wasn’t going to be small, but still it felt better than the Z50 in every other aspect. Buttons, for instance, are definitely a step up from cropped. Made more sense to me.
              2. Sony struck me as more interesting than Nikon. That’s because they have actually pocketable camera bodies for cropped (rangefinder style) and large bodies if we’re talking full frame (SLR style). The A7iv was roughly the same size as the Z5, but the A6400 is so compact (unlike the Z50) that it is actually pocketable with a pancake-ish lens. True, most of their lenses are not small, but I could see a smaller lens working well as a nifty setup with an A6x00 body.
              3. Olympus is actually rather impressive. Their bodies are so small and well-built, everything is smooth and easy to use. And yeah, those lenses are tiny. I was amazed by how compact they are. A full setup easily fits in a medium camera bag/insert. Sadly, it was the least ergonomic brand of all, but apart from that, I liked what I saw.
              4. Panasonic was exactly how I thought it would be. Those modern bodies are inexplicably bulky. I’m assuming that’s probably because of all the juice needed to handle heavy video loads. They are definitely catering to a different audience recently; the hybrid shooters who want cinematic video. If I were to get a Panasonic body, it would be an older, more compact model. Their build quality feels great, but the cameras are very big.

              In summary, I have ruled out all bigger camera bodies for now. So, I’ll have to pick between Sony A6x00 series, Panasonic GX or Olympus E-M5. I’ll follow your advice and think about it further after checking out what sources like DPReview have to say.

              • Durandal
                2·
                5 months ago

                Included a picture of my 7D2 with 50mm next to my EM52 with 42mm to see the size difference “IRL”. Thought it might be a fun comparison.

                I wish I had some more useful information about the video side of things but it’s really not my thing. The a7 (starting with the 3 or 4 idr) have been touting the dual native ISO thing which would be applicable to your low light video… but you’re talking about the more expensive and slightly larger bodies.

                Nikon was the most ergonomic by far. Holding their cameras feels so comfortable and natural, it’s amazing.

                A little of that is probably because it’s what you’re used to… but a big thing about those larger bodies is that they are made to be comfortable in the hand. One of the reasons I wanted to upgrade from a mid DSLR to a full DSLR was to that it felt better in my hand to hold especially with larger lenses on it. It’s always a trade off between ergonomics and size / weight. Something to consider is that many cameras have things you can add or change to adjust the ergonomics to a degree. The EM5 was just a tad too small for my hand but I got a little, inexpensive handle that adds like a centimeter to the bottom and a bit of a grip and now it’s great to hold one handed. I wouldn’t buy something that you hated but there’s definitely things you can do to adjust them.

                Sony struck me as more interesting than Nikon. That’s because they have actually pocketable camera bodies for cropped (rangefinder style)

                Yeah… rangefinder style bodies are definitely going to feel more “portable”. You sacrifice some of the in hand ergonomics, but if you aren’t holding it for an hour or two straight staring at a bird waiting for it to do something… it’s less of an issue lol. One of the points between the olympus em5ii and the lumix gx8 I was tossing around was the body style. The rangefinder style does feel different and slim for an EDC sorta camera for sure.

                Olympus is actually rather impressive. Their bodies are so small and well-built, everything is smooth and easy to use. And yeah, those lenses are tiny.

                The conversation about olympus vs panasonic circles around the lens stabilization a lot because they choose different methods and have evolved from that. On the older style cameras like my EM5II they chose to go with IBIS (full 5axis which has been really nice coming from a DSLR) so they don’t include any stabilization in their brand lenses. That means their lenses can be half the size and weight which is really cool. It also means I get some stabilization on manual 3rd party lenses which is nice. The newer panasonic like the G9II, IIRC, handle IBIS on non-first party lenses better than olympus in their current flagships… but it’s one of those things where you have to look at each one. The cool thing is that M43 is M43… while you might have a lenses and camera combo here and there that isn’t great… mostly they’re interchangeable so you could get a small, cheap Olympus and later get a brand new panasonic and the lenses would still fit (which was my plan heh).

                I have ruled out all bigger camera bodies for now. So, I’ll have to pick between Sony A6x00 series, Panasonic GX or Olympus E-M5.

                It might be worth considering having more than one camera as the end goal. I realized I wouldn’t get everything I wanted from one camera because having a large ergonomic dslr with nearly infinite battery life… and a tiny light mirrorless were mutually exclusive. With used sites it has gotten a lot more reasonable to have a couple systems. It sounds like the sony is really appealing to you and if you were going to buy into two systems Sony and M43 would be a solid choice, IMHO. You’re going to have a good selection of bodies and lenses on the sony side so you can get some nice lenses and then update bodies if you want to later on. Also with how popular their stuff is I would imaging you wouldn’t have a hard time selling your system if you changed your mind in a couple years either. M43 being an open standard has multiple manufacturers on board so it has a lot of good lens choices. There are some fun “artistic” lens makers like 7artisans and laowa making some interesting stuff and they usually make for sony and M43 so if you got into any of those your bases are covered.

                So, I’ll have to pick between Sony A6x00 series, Panasonic GX or Olympus E-M5.

                I have heard those 3 choices recommended over and over online. I don’t think you can really go wrong with any of them. The video side is going to be the biggest sticky point with the older bodies. Even getting the EM5II I still kind of want a GX8… there’s a couple features I like and the body style is appealing. I’m beginning to see why all these camera youtubers have a wall of tiny cameras behind them lol. Also… “lens acquisition syndrome” … the struggle is real haha.

                Thanks for the Peak Design strap recommendation. I have the clip and quick release anchor links, and I must say I love both accessories. I’ll make sure to check out the strap on my next trip to REI.

                If you decide you like that system it definitely has a few fun things you can attach to those clips. I’ve got those little red dots hanging off all my stuff now. I got a hand grip (see picture above) on my DSLR. I got the wrist strap for the EM5II. I got the full size “slide” for my DSLR. I am considering getting one of the smaller ones or the adapter clips for the EM5II. I love the ability to add and remove as I go depending on how and what I want to carry. If you go to their site, they sell directly as well… and more importantly they have a “last call” for last years models that are being clearanced out as well as a certified and fully warrantied “pre-owned” section. I have gotten some good deals from them and all the pre-owned stuff has looked brand new but half priced. https://www.peakdesign.com/

                • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
                  1·
                  5 months ago

                  Ha, nice comparison between the huge Canon and the tiny Olympus.

                  The EM5 was just a tad too small for my hand but I got a little, inexpensive handle that adds like a centimeter to the bottom and a bit of a grip and now it’s great to hold one handed

                  I’ve definitely seen people selling bodies with those handles on Craigslist. From what I’ve noticed, they are pretty popular as a modular solution to improve handling. I’ll definitely look into getting one regardless of my ultimate choice, since it will be a small camera.

                  Also, I’m aware of the Olympus vs Panasonic IBIS stuff, it is definitely something I’m taking into consideration because I guess IBIS might be better than OIS in general for the reasons you mentioned. The GX8 has IBIS, but I’m sure it pales in comparison to the E-M5iii (5 axis). I agree that it is great to just be able to add a more powerful body (like the G9ii) to your setup without having to use different lenses. Big plus for M43, since there’s no difference in sensor size.

                  You mentioned

                  It might be worth considering having more than one camera as the end goal.

                  This is what I’m starting to realize. I’m definitely inclined to try out both Sony and M43 because they both shine at their own individual strengths. As you said, a rangefinder-style body is very nice as an EDC, while a bigger SLR style camera would do well for shooting-only days. It’s great that you mention 7artisans and Laowa, those look like a lot of fun to me, definitely one of the reasons I want to switch to mirrorless.

                  At the moment, I’m trying to decide between Sony A6x00 (A6100 or A6400), or M43, either GX8 or E-M5iii. My local shop has a used GX8 available that I will probably check out. If I were to get a Sony or Olympus, it would have to be through MPB or UsedPhotoPro due to availability. I’ll think about it and make a decision. My starting point would be one of the three options below:

                  1. Sony A6100 or A6400 + Sony E PZ 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS
                  2. Olympus E-M5iii + Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 EZ
                  3. Panasonic GX8 + Panasonic Lumix G Vario 12-32mm f/3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S.

                  Plus one budget telephoto for whatever “kit” I end up deciding to get. But I’m definitely inclined to invest in both systems in the long term.

                  About Peak Design,

                  and more importantly they have a “last call” for last years models that are being clearanced out as well as a certified and fully warrantied “pre-owned” section

                  That’s a great tip! I didn’t know that was a thing. I’m browsing their pre-owned section now, that’s actually amazing. Thank you for sharing!

                  Well, now I guess I’ll start considering those three options and I might update the post once I have a more informed opinion. I’m not too worried because I’m sure all those three options are great cameras. I’ll watch some videos and look at the side-by-side specs comparison spreadsheet more carefully.

  • NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world
    2·
    5 months ago

    The E-M5 iii looks very appealing.

    I have this one. It is lots of fun if you like so many creative control settings. You can do these ISO acrobatics that you wish for, and lots of other things too.

    I am not much into video, but I think it does 4k.

    don’t know how much I’m letting go in image quality.

    Being just an amateur, I guess it will be hard to notice any.

    • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
      1·
      5 months ago

      I appreciate you sharing your experience and comments. Yes, the E-M5 iii does 4K.

      I like your comment about image quality being equivalent. I mean it because what one sees online is mostly “micro four thirds is great, I switched and have not looked back!” or “ew, their image quality is hideous, I would stay away from that system”. But I suspect most of the latter comments are made by people who read specs and pixel peep more than anything, or pros who shoot weddings and portraits and need to deliver very large prints for a living. I wonder how much is actually noticeable in the real world for a casual hobbyist.

  • somethingp@lemmy.world
    2·
    5 months ago

    I started with a used Nikon d3300 a while ago, and then upgraded to an a7iv when it came out. I was mostly starting to feel the limitations of low light performance and slow autofocus on the d3300. For me the a7iv seemed like the right choice at the time, and I’ve been very happy with it. But I think if I were making the same decision now, I might choose the a6700. It’s smaller, similar specs, cheaper, and most importantly for me, the apsc crop would be better for wildlife as it gives better reach. I recently went to Yellowstone and the number of times cool stuff was happening just a little too far away was a bit frustrating. If I had something like an a7riv or a7rv, it wouldn’t be a problem because of how high resolution they are. But those cameras cost a ton more. But I’m still very happy with my a7iv and will not be changing cameras any time soon.

    I would say that unless you have a lot of nice glass for the d3200 already, don’t worry about switching to Sony. I think it really is the best brand for hobbyists because of how much affordable and excellent 3rd party glass is available for the system in both full frame and aspc. Just cannot be matched with any other system. Also, if you do want the crazy fancy stuff, the Sony G and GM lenses are some of the best in the game, and definitely have the most variety of lenses.

    I would avoid m43. A lot of the newer cameras aren’t particularly light or small. I think the Sony apsc cameras are often more compact and more affordable.

    • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
      1·
      5 months ago

      Thanks for the input! I am considering the A6400 and A7iii, given the amazing reviews they always get.

      I don’t own many expensive Nikon lenses, but I am planning on selling the more expensive stuff that I have to switch systems. That shouldn’t really be a problem, since I got quotes from MPB and KEH that I’m happy with.

      Sadly, you are spot on regarding micro four thirds and the path they are taking. If I’m not mistaken, Panasonic’s last compact micro four thirds camera was the GX-9, released in 2018. Olympus’ bodies are not smaller than other brands, either. Some of them even dwarf high-end, full frame DSLR bodies (e.g. E-M1X vs D750), while most are only slightly smaller than full frame mirrorless (e.g. E-M5iii vs A7iii). But honestly, something that bugs me a lot is exactly the situation that you were describing about your trip to Yellowstone. I live pretty close to the Rocky Mountain NP, so I’m there somewhat frequently. I must say, there were situations where I regret not bringing a long telephoto with me, and I own a nice one. I have a huge Tamron 150-600, but I can’t hike with it on top of all the outdoor gear I’m bringing, so I only use it when I’m not walking that much.

      Olympus, for instance, sells the 75-300 lens which is ridiculously small for the reach you can get. Especially if you compare that to a Nikon F cropped plus 80-400 or full frame plus the 150-600, the difference in size is jarring. At the moment, the only equivalent solution I see for Sony is a cropped body with the new Tamron 70-300, which is comparable in size to the E-M5iii plus the 75-300. Which isn’t bad at all. I suspect this would be an image quality vs reach battle, where I could see either winning.

      I also agree that micro four thirds is sadly becoming pricier and pricier. In contrast, the market for Sony cropped seems to be always hot.

      Actually, I’ll see if my local store will have Sony and Olympus bodies in stock so I can try them out some time this week. I’ve only ever handled a Sony ZV-E10 camera, I’m curious to see how the A6x00 series feels.

      • somethingp@lemmy.world
        2·
        5 months ago

        I actually was using my 200-600 with a 1.4x teleconverter. For photos it was a little easier but particularly for video was harder. But honestly it’s all great. I don’t do crazy hikes with a lot of gear so I’m happy to lug my 200-600 around. And it usually gets me the shot or close to it. I’m not a professional so it’s not like anything depends on me getting the shot. It’s more about the journey anyway haha

        Main thing is my a7iv no longer feels like it’s limiting me like my d3300 did and more often than not, it is my own limitations

        • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
          2·
          5 months ago

          I am not familiar with super long reach photography, but I love telescopes. As a matter of fact, the latest DPReview photography challenge winner got the shot using a M43 camera with a telescope. Maybe you could look into digiscoping for your next trip if you need insane magnifications like 1200mm-3000mm or more. That should be way cheaper than a modern, high quality lens with extra features like stabilization and blazing fast autofocus.

          • somethingp@lemmy.world
            2·
            5 months ago

            That’s a good idea. I think in that situation the fancy stuff matters less than the magnification so the “cheaper” telescopes might make more sense. I’ll have to look into it!

  • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    2·
    5 months ago

    Personally I’ve got a Lumix G9 and I’ve been having a ball with it since I got it (I’ve got a link in my profile to where I share pics if you’re curious)

    I’m by no means an expert but my use case lines up quite a bit with yours so I felt like sharing

    It’s not bad to lug around and being able to have a couple lenses in my bag without worry is nice. But most of the time I just rock the 12-60mm Leica lens that came with it.

    If you wanna pick my brain with questions about it feel free, though my lunch is about over so it’s going to be a few hours before I get back to you.

    • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
      2·
      5 months ago

      I’m checking out your pictures and they do look great and sharp to me. It’s great to know that you don’t think it is a large camera to carry around with extra lenses, because the image quality is indeed amazing.

      I would actually like to ask you a couple of things, if you don’t mind. How often do you use high-res modes, and does it work well? If you shoot video, How do you feel about focus tracking? Are there any other “advanced features” that you feel like have been a game changer, like perhaps focus stacking?

      • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        2·
        5 months ago

        Thank you, it’s always nice hearing that people like the shots.

        Yeah it’s really not bad to carry‡ and I usually will take my 100-300 mm lens★ with me with the kit lens when I go out hiking or just brjng the 100-300 mm with me on a bike ride.

        I use the high res mode sometimes and it works really well, the new G9-2 has a better high res mode from what I hear but I unfortunately haven’t tested it on the new version yet.

        I have shot some video but I don’t shoot much that would require tracking focus. It’s more of a set it and forget it kind of thing. One thing I have used it for quite a bit is streaming video and it works fantastic for that.

        In terms of advanced features, exposure bracketing is something I enjoy quite a bit. It allows me to more focus on framing and focus to nail a shot. But I’ve found myself not using that feature much lately. I’m not sure why I just don’t bother lol.

        I think my favorite advanced feature though is connecting it to my phone over WiFi and controlling it that way. It’s so useful having a view from the camera on my phone and being able to control the camera. I’ve even done it with a tablet and it’s so freakin nice. Literally having a live monitor for the camera for no extra cost that allows full control of the camera.

        ★ Probably my favorite feature of the Micro 4/3 system is the lens sizes, there’s a huge variety of them and even the coolest lenses don’t weigh a whole lot. The 100-300 mm one I mentioned here is barely larger than a standard 12 oz soda can when stowed.

        ‡ The hikes I normally go on are north of 12 miles with thousands of feet of gain, it’s super chill to carry. I’ve got a peak design clip I use to put in on my hiking bag shoulder strap and my other lens is on the other strap. It’s a pretty great setup.

        • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
          2·
          5 months ago

          Of course I like them. They are nice pictures!

          I’ve actually just arrived from my trip to the camera store and I was amazed by how small those lenses are. I was expecting the M43 lenses to be rather small, but not that tiny! I can totally see how a full setup with a couple of lenses would fit in a small camera bag/insert.

          Exposure bracketing is indeed something I wish I had. I assume I would use it all the time, because my snow and skies are blown out fairly often.

          I think the wifi control is cool as well. I can do the same thing with my gopro and I love it. I can place the camera somewhere and just comfortably walk away and shoot from wherever I am!

          The G9 looked appealing online, but after seeing it in-person today, I felt like the body looked to big compared to what I originally had in mind. I kind of want something pocketable when I’m not carrying a backpack with me. I don’t think I would mind hiking with it, though. We do similar distances and elevation gains, and I also use the capture clip and I have nothing to complain about it. But for day-to-day stuff, I might prefer something smaller.

          I will definitely look into Panasonic cameras with the similar features but a smaller form factor, like the GX9. Thank you again for making yourself available and your willingness to help me!

  • JeyNessuno@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    2·
    5 months ago

    Older Sony mirrorless have most of what you’re looking for. I got a Sony a6000 for 350€ and it has auto iso with cap (but not auto shutter speed with cap), pretty good custom controls although I wish for more, great size, great autofocus. It does lack great low light performance, I also struggle with that, but maybe a full frame would be better for that.

    You may want to try it out for cheaper and then buy lenses, and once you’re committed to the ecosystem buy a nicer more recent Sony.

    • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
      1·
      5 months ago

      I almost got a Sony A6000 two months ago for that reason, to “try it out” and “review it” as a day-to-day camera. As you said, it is nice because you can progressively upgrade within the same system without having to switch entirely. I will follow the advice below and go to my local shop to hold one more recent Sony in my hands, given that they all have the same format as older models anyway.

  • Liz@midwest.socialEnglish
    2·
    5 months ago

    I use the Sony A7iii and have essentially zero complaints. Maybe the A7iv would have been nicer to get the fully articulating screen, but it hasn’t been a significant limitation. I got the Sigma 60-600 for birds and wildlife and then I use old SLR lenses when I’m taking fun photos that don’t need autofocus. I will eventually get the Tamron 35-150 for indoor sports. The Sony ecosystem is great with the huge selection of lenses, and while I don’t like that third party lenses are limited to 15 frames per second, it’s not as bad as Cannon’s policy.

    • buffy@lemmy.worldOP
      2·
      5 months ago

      I actually had the opportunity to check it out in-person today! It is a fantastic camera, impressive build quality and ergonomics. Buttons feel great and the image quality delivers. I feel like Sony is a great system because you go from compact, cropped rangefinder-style to amazing image quality, full frame SLR-style seamlessly. For now, I would prefer to stick to something smaller than the A7iii/iv, though. I was pretty pleased with the A6400. I am currently considering a model from the A6x00 (which I can later upgrade to an A7) or a mid-range M43.