“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.” — Jesus (Matt. 7:1-2)
Rev. Cremer: goes on Twitter and judges a bunch of people he’s never met for things they didn’t do to him
I don’t know who “you people” are, but personally, I’ve come to agree with Richard Feynman, “I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.”
“Who is a sinner in the eyes of God” is such a question. Nobody is perfect, try though as we might. It’s only when we stop trying that the answer becomes conclusive, then you definitely ARE a sinner and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Spiritual death, that is, not necessarily physical death right away.
Perhaps that is why the Bible is written in such a way that no one is ever able to come to a final conclusion about who is a sinner (other that we all are at some point or other), but provides plenty of encouragement to help each other to sin less. Maybe the ultimate conclusion is that reaching ANY conclusion about the nature of God is a sin and the only way to find Him is to throw away your answers and only keep the questions.
Blah blah blah. You tried treating ‘that’s hypocrisy’ as hypocrisy. You don’t get to quote Richard fucking Feynman as though someone’s persecuting you for calling out that failed call-out.
But again, you people can’t help bouncing between ‘it’s just food for thought’ and hellfire-and-certainty mythos. This dude is quoting Jesus, in context, to condemn the sort of thing he was pretty fucking clear on. But you can’t handle that. You have to snip at him, like if you nuh-uh hard enough it’ll uno-reverse how your own dogma damns these bigoted politicians.
Or at the very least you feel the need to score points by counter-tutting at someone for pointing out problems… because that’s also a problem! Somehow! In fact I bet it’s just as bad as letting refugees drown! Which will not cause any self-reflection as to whether a judgement system which equates those actions could ever be justifiable.
Oh look, and your comment before this was pretending The Idiot declaring himself dictator for any length of time is excused by specifying a length of time. You fuckin’ people, I swear. You’re just shuffling cards. You have a conclusion, and you need an excuse. Any excuse will do.
Not at all. He didn’t even quote the entire verse (Matthew 25:40), much less in context (Matthew 25:31-46). This section is about the final judgment which is supposed to occur when Jesus returns as king. Is this guy Jesus? No, he’s just a pastor.
My point is, the issue of salvation is a personal one, it’s between each of us and God, not between each other (Phil. 2:12-13). And I am by no means condemning him, I’m just pointing out how we tend to make fools of ourselves whenever we step on pedestal and grandstand about the sins of others instead of our own. I’ve already been down that path and I can tell you that there is nothing but misery and trouble ahead.
But you go ahead, pick and choose what you want to believe based on what you find convenient. You probably don’t even aspire to be a Christian, because it’s much easier to just hate and abuse those who do for failing to live up to their own declared values, and it gives you a convenient target to vent your hatred on because most of them won’t fight back.
That’s how much of a chad you are, that you’re preying on the weak to defend the strong (politically speaking, that is). You don’t really care about what’s wrong or right, do you. You just want to bash some heads in.
The fact you think that matters underlines how hard you do not get this.
Is this guy Jesus?
Case in point. Hi, J-Dawg! Welcome back! You must be him, right? Because if a mere pastor criticizing public figures based on the text that is his job deserves naysaying scolding, then some rando would have to be a complete butthead to try reversing that. I mean you’re three guys in one, somehow, but even you’d know that’s a self-defeating position regardless of whether it lands.
we tend to make fools of ourselves whenever we step on pedestal and grandstand about the sins of others instead of our own.
Wow.
I’ve already been down that path and I can tell you that there is nothing but misery and trouble ahead.
Wow.
But you go ahead, pick and choose what you want to believe based on what you find convenient.
Yeah what kind of asshole would call someone a hypocrite based on their own stated beliefs.
… may I reiterate: wooow.
it gives you a convenient target to vent your hatred on because most of them won’t fight back.
Poor wilting 70% of the population, only rolling back sexual equality and queer rights! They’d never physically threaten people like me for flying the wrong colorful flag, or demand children be shielded from acknowledging my existence. They’d never shove their beliefs into the pledge I said in school every single morning for twelve fucking years.
We’re condemning fascists.
Like you.
You’re not fighting back - we’re fighting back. You’ve been attacking us since before we could read. You’ve been doing damn near all of the head-bashing, and quite a lot of it has been our heads. And you, personally, to-day, have brushed off when the current figurehead of all that violent bigotry openly declared he wanted absolute power.
The fact you think that matters underlines how hard you do not get this.
No, I get it. You agree with HIM because he’s giving you ammunition against the people you hate while ostensibly being on their side. So because they won’t listen to YOU, since you don’t even try to live the values you’re criticizing them for not embodying perfectly, you want to be able to point at someone who DOES, and who also happens to hold the same point of view as you. It helps of course that he is also a pastor, that way you can add the weight of authority behind your attack.
It’s all perfectly transparent and very, very obvious. You want to pick and choose the parts you like when it suits you, and discard everything else that doesn’t. But it doesn’t work that way, kiddo. You can fool some people some of the time, but you can’t fool everyone all the time. You’re welcome to try, though. It just won’t work on me.
Look, I’m sorry to hear you’re having so much trouble in life and I get that you’re angry, but have you considered that perhaps it’s the result of your own actions? I used to be a rebel like you when I was younger, and I hated God’s law because it seemed so arduous and difficult to keep. Like you I thought I knew everything better, and thought that if I only pushed on hard enough, I would eventually get things the way I wanted them. But unfortunately, that’s an illusion. Nothing ever gets better until you submit to God’s will, and do things the way He wants them done. And no amount of rage has ever or will ever change that.
I’m only telling you this in order to save yourself unnecessary pain and trouble. If you keep going on your way, you’ll only meet with destruction. I can guarantee you that.
‘You’re just picking sides and making up why,’ how depressingly predictable. You fucking people.
I’m an atheist. Your religion is nonsense. This guy’s religion too. When I tell you your nitpicking is self-contradictory, that’s not “picking and choosing,” it’s highlighting how you embody the hypocrisy you think you’re attacking. I can condemn you by your own words alone. If you bothered to read your own sentences, in the order you have written them, you would experience cognitive dissonance, if you’re capable of cognitive dissonance.
Instead, you make up why I’m really saying this… and pretend your cocksure projection is transparent proof I’m making up why I’m really saying this. Because you’re not really listening. You’re not even reading this. You’re going to pretend I’ve made and discarded some claim to religious belief, because you cannot imagine argument from a position except as devious subterfuge, so criticizing someone on their own terms is some kind of betrayal.
Look, I’m sorry to hear you’re having so much trouble in life and I get that you’re angry, but have you considered that perhaps it’s the result of your own actions?
“Have you tried not being who Nazis hate?”
You don’t know how Nazis work.
Par for the course.
I’m only telling you this in order to save yourself unnecessary pain and trouble.
You endorsed fascism, asshole. You defend the bastards who want people like me to die. Fuck your self-congratulatory lies. Even your smug apologetics end with the threat of destruction.
I’m an atheist. Your religion is nonsense. This guy’s religion too.
So you admit, then, that you don’t really care about WHAT he is saying, all you care about is that he is a Christian criticizing other Christians, and that’s just what you need in order to dress up your hatred in a robe of legitimacy. You don’t really care about him or his message, he’s just a tool for you to use and discard after you’ve accomplished your purpose on inflicting pain on those you hate. And then you consider yourself the righteous one, because you feel oppressed.
Because you’re not really listening. You’re not even reading this.
Not true. I am listening. You said two comments ago that you are queer, and you have felt as though you have been persecuted by Christians for most of your life simply for the crime of existing, because some of them have made physical threats or won’t let you near their kids and school made you say the Pledge of Allegiance, which has the word “God” in it.
Since you complained that I’m not criticizing you on your own terms, let’s pick that apart, shall we? The physical threats aren’t cool, obviously, but I do have some questions about them:
Where they direct threats of violence, or were they more of the kind that’s found in the Bible (i.e. God saying he will destroy sinners like you?)
Has anyone ever followed through on them? And if so, what do you think the church would have to say about that, would they condone this? Or are you simply
holding every single Christian responsible for the acts of (a) single individual(s) acting out of their own volition rather than according to their values as a whole?
As far as access to other people’s children goes, you realize that as an adult, you do indeed not have a right to that, no matter what your sexual orientation is, right? People will keep their children away from anyone they fear might be dangerous to their children, such as criminals, registered sex offenders, “strange men”, or anyone else they simply have a gut feeling about. That’s not an indictment of or a crime against you personally, that’s just parenting.
Have you considered that you’re not really upset because they are protecting their children from you, but rather because your parents failed to protect you from others when you were a child?
As far as the pledge of allegiance goes, sure, I suppose you can blame Christians for inserting “under God” into that (the original version didn’t have it). However, I would submit that if you are a strong atheist (i.e. you are convinced that God doesn’t exist), then you actually DO believe in a God, because the belief in God’s non-existence IS your God, in the sense that your entire world view is constructed around it.
You don’t know how Nazis work. Par for the course.
So I’m a Nazi but I also don’t know how Nazis work, is that it? Very interesting. Am I behaving like a Nazi right now, by engaging with what you’re saying and trying to understand where you are coming from? I’m pretty sure an actual Nazi would have probably shot you in the head by now.
You endorsed fascism, asshole. You defend the bastards who want people like me to die.
So Christianity is fascism, that’s why Christians continually exhort each other to mercy, is that it? And if they wanted you dead, how come you’re still alive? They must not be very good at this fascism thing.
Fuck your self-congratulatory lies. Even your smug apologetics end with the threat of destruction.
Yes but it’s not me threatening to destroy you personally, just to be clear. What I meant by that is that if you continue on the path of anger and wrath, it’s you who will cause your own destruction. As the saying goes, “Before you pursue revenge, be sure to dig two graves.”
I am not trying to destroy you. I’m trying to help you identify where your anger comes from, so that you may have a chance to stop it before it’s too late and it ends up destroying you.
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.” — Jesus (Matt. 7:1-2)
Rev. Cremer: goes on Twitter and judges a bunch of people he’s never met for things they didn’t do to him
We’re all sinners, aren’t we, Ben?
Oh fuck off. You people think reaching a conclusion is a contradiction.
I don’t know who “you people” are, but personally, I’ve come to agree with Richard Feynman, “I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.”
“Who is a sinner in the eyes of God” is such a question. Nobody is perfect, try though as we might. It’s only when we stop trying that the answer becomes conclusive, then you definitely ARE a sinner and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Spiritual death, that is, not necessarily physical death right away.
Perhaps that is why the Bible is written in such a way that no one is ever able to come to a final conclusion about who is a sinner (other that we all are at some point or other), but provides plenty of encouragement to help each other to sin less. Maybe the ultimate conclusion is that reaching ANY conclusion about the nature of God is a sin and the only way to find Him is to throw away your answers and only keep the questions.
But you do you. This is just food for thought.
Blah blah blah. You tried treating ‘that’s hypocrisy’ as hypocrisy. You don’t get to quote Richard fucking Feynman as though someone’s persecuting you for calling out that failed call-out.
But again, you people can’t help bouncing between ‘it’s just food for thought’ and hellfire-and-certainty mythos. This dude is quoting Jesus, in context, to condemn the sort of thing he was pretty fucking clear on. But you can’t handle that. You have to snip at him, like if you nuh-uh hard enough it’ll uno-reverse how your own dogma damns these bigoted politicians.
Or at the very least you feel the need to score points by counter-tutting at someone for pointing out problems… because that’s also a problem! Somehow! In fact I bet it’s just as bad as letting refugees drown! Which will not cause any self-reflection as to whether a judgement system which equates those actions could ever be justifiable.
Oh look, and your comment before this was pretending The Idiot declaring himself dictator for any length of time is excused by specifying a length of time. You fuckin’ people, I swear. You’re just shuffling cards. You have a conclusion, and you need an excuse. Any excuse will do.
So was I.
Not at all. He didn’t even quote the entire verse (Matthew 25:40), much less in context (Matthew 25:31-46). This section is about the final judgment which is supposed to occur when Jesus returns as king. Is this guy Jesus? No, he’s just a pastor.
My point is, the issue of salvation is a personal one, it’s between each of us and God, not between each other (Phil. 2:12-13). And I am by no means condemning him, I’m just pointing out how we tend to make fools of ourselves whenever we step on pedestal and grandstand about the sins of others instead of our own. I’ve already been down that path and I can tell you that there is nothing but misery and trouble ahead.
But you go ahead, pick and choose what you want to believe based on what you find convenient. You probably don’t even aspire to be a Christian, because it’s much easier to just hate and abuse those who do for failing to live up to their own declared values, and it gives you a convenient target to vent your hatred on because most of them won’t fight back.
That’s how much of a chad you are, that you’re preying on the weak to defend the strong (politically speaking, that is). You don’t really care about what’s wrong or right, do you. You just want to bash some heads in.
The fact you think that matters underlines how hard you do not get this.
Case in point. Hi, J-Dawg! Welcome back! You must be him, right? Because if a mere pastor criticizing public figures based on the text that is his job deserves naysaying scolding, then some rando would have to be a complete butthead to try reversing that. I mean you’re three guys in one, somehow, but even you’d know that’s a self-defeating position regardless of whether it lands.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah what kind of asshole would call someone a hypocrite based on their own stated beliefs.
… may I reiterate: wooow.
Poor wilting 70% of the population, only rolling back sexual equality and queer rights! They’d never physically threaten people like me for flying the wrong colorful flag, or demand children be shielded from acknowledging my existence. They’d never shove their beliefs into the pledge I said in school every single morning for twelve fucking years.
We’re condemning fascists.
Like you.
You’re not fighting back - we’re fighting back. You’ve been attacking us since before we could read. You’ve been doing damn near all of the head-bashing, and quite a lot of it has been our heads. And you, personally, to-day, have brushed off when the current figurehead of all that violent bigotry openly declared he wanted absolute power.
No, I get it. You agree with HIM because he’s giving you ammunition against the people you hate while ostensibly being on their side. So because they won’t listen to YOU, since you don’t even try to live the values you’re criticizing them for not embodying perfectly, you want to be able to point at someone who DOES, and who also happens to hold the same point of view as you. It helps of course that he is also a pastor, that way you can add the weight of authority behind your attack.
It’s all perfectly transparent and very, very obvious. You want to pick and choose the parts you like when it suits you, and discard everything else that doesn’t. But it doesn’t work that way, kiddo. You can fool some people some of the time, but you can’t fool everyone all the time. You’re welcome to try, though. It just won’t work on me.
Look, I’m sorry to hear you’re having so much trouble in life and I get that you’re angry, but have you considered that perhaps it’s the result of your own actions? I used to be a rebel like you when I was younger, and I hated God’s law because it seemed so arduous and difficult to keep. Like you I thought I knew everything better, and thought that if I only pushed on hard enough, I would eventually get things the way I wanted them. But unfortunately, that’s an illusion. Nothing ever gets better until you submit to God’s will, and do things the way He wants them done. And no amount of rage has ever or will ever change that.
I’m only telling you this in order to save yourself unnecessary pain and trouble. If you keep going on your way, you’ll only meet with destruction. I can guarantee you that.
‘You’re just picking sides and making up why,’ how depressingly predictable. You fucking people.
I’m an atheist. Your religion is nonsense. This guy’s religion too. When I tell you your nitpicking is self-contradictory, that’s not “picking and choosing,” it’s highlighting how you embody the hypocrisy you think you’re attacking. I can condemn you by your own words alone. If you bothered to read your own sentences, in the order you have written them, you would experience cognitive dissonance, if you’re capable of cognitive dissonance.
Instead, you make up why I’m really saying this… and pretend your cocksure projection is transparent proof I’m making up why I’m really saying this. Because you’re not really listening. You’re not even reading this. You’re going to pretend I’ve made and discarded some claim to religious belief, because you cannot imagine argument from a position except as devious subterfuge, so criticizing someone on their own terms is some kind of betrayal.
“Have you tried not being who Nazis hate?”
You don’t know how Nazis work.
Par for the course.
You endorsed fascism, asshole. You defend the bastards who want people like me to die. Fuck your self-congratulatory lies. Even your smug apologetics end with the threat of destruction.
So you admit, then, that you don’t really care about WHAT he is saying, all you care about is that he is a Christian criticizing other Christians, and that’s just what you need in order to dress up your hatred in a robe of legitimacy. You don’t really care about him or his message, he’s just a tool for you to use and discard after you’ve accomplished your purpose on inflicting pain on those you hate. And then you consider yourself the righteous one, because you feel oppressed.
Not true. I am listening. You said two comments ago that you are queer, and you have felt as though you have been persecuted by Christians for most of your life simply for the crime of existing, because some of them have made physical threats or won’t let you near their kids and school made you say the Pledge of Allegiance, which has the word “God” in it.
Since you complained that I’m not criticizing you on your own terms, let’s pick that apart, shall we? The physical threats aren’t cool, obviously, but I do have some questions about them:
As far as access to other people’s children goes, you realize that as an adult, you do indeed not have a right to that, no matter what your sexual orientation is, right? People will keep their children away from anyone they fear might be dangerous to their children, such as criminals, registered sex offenders, “strange men”, or anyone else they simply have a gut feeling about. That’s not an indictment of or a crime against you personally, that’s just parenting.
Have you considered that you’re not really upset because they are protecting their children from you, but rather because your parents failed to protect you from others when you were a child?
As far as the pledge of allegiance goes, sure, I suppose you can blame Christians for inserting “under God” into that (the original version didn’t have it). However, I would submit that if you are a strong atheist (i.e. you are convinced that God doesn’t exist), then you actually DO believe in a God, because the belief in God’s non-existence IS your God, in the sense that your entire world view is constructed around it.
So I’m a Nazi but I also don’t know how Nazis work, is that it? Very interesting. Am I behaving like a Nazi right now, by engaging with what you’re saying and trying to understand where you are coming from? I’m pretty sure an actual Nazi would have probably shot you in the head by now.
So Christianity is fascism, that’s why Christians continually exhort each other to mercy, is that it? And if they wanted you dead, how come you’re still alive? They must not be very good at this fascism thing.
Yes but it’s not me threatening to destroy you personally, just to be clear. What I meant by that is that if you continue on the path of anger and wrath, it’s you who will cause your own destruction. As the saying goes, “Before you pursue revenge, be sure to dig two graves.”
I am not trying to destroy you. I’m trying to help you identify where your anger comes from, so that you may have a chance to stop it before it’s too late and it ends up destroying you.