What happens in November is up to Biden – it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected. The questions remain: does the Democratic party fear Trump as much as we do? And does it value its voters enough to shift away from an approach to the onslaught in Gaza that a majority of Democratic voters are against?

  • @eran_morad@lemmy.world
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    14 days ago

    I’m just tryna vote for the lesser, by far, of two evils. It’s a fucking binary system, you can stomp your feet all you want and still get a genocide and possibly much worse, or you can at least preserve hope for a better future.

    • Same but in the mean time I’m going to continue to donate and help push for progressives and those who keep fighting to get rid of the bullshit first past the post voting system and electoral college bullshit.

    • @Xanis@lemmy.world
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      714 days ago

      It’s reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally simple:

      Voting Biden in gives us time to take all this energy we’re mustering up and using it to promote broader, more significant changes. We don’t stop at the election and instead use the next four years to push toward a better tomorrow.

      Too many people are stopping at Trump v. Biden. Too many more are stopping at Them v “The System”.

      Change takes time. When you vote for Biden, you vote to reset the clock, and then it’s time for all of us to get to work.

      • AutistoMephisto
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        213 days ago

        Exactly. If Trump wins, he will outright BAN the Democratic Party, at worst. We will all either be Republicans, or we will be prisoners. And if that happens, the only group with the means to oppose him and the GOP Fascists is gone. And yes, the DNC absolutely has the means. They have all the tools they need. Now, I will admit that they lack the will to use those tools, but if Trump wins they’ll never get the chance to use them.

      • @Krono
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        -714 days ago

        Can you explain how you expect to push for a better tomorrow after Biden is re-elected?

        The reason I am reluctant to vote for Biden is that he is supporting genocide. If Biden continues to give away large quantities of child-exploding bombs, and he is still rewarded with reelection, then what leverage will the anti-genocide movement have left?

        It seems like if Biden can ignore the anti-genocide movement and still win, then we can expect Biden to keep ignoring for 4 more years.

          • @hark@lemmy.world
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            13 days ago

            Tell me: What do you expect democrats to do when they can just point to the next election and claim that democrats are owed votes for not being the other guy? Do you honestly think democrats will listen to voters? They’re already not listening when the vote matters most.

              • @hark@lemmy.world
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                113 days ago

                I wish the democrats would make the four years matter. Somehow obama made little difference in eight years while trump drove us to the edge of armageddon in only four. So far biden doesn’t inspire much confidence.

                • @Xanis@lemmy.world
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                  113 days ago

                  The Right tends to come together against something. The rest of us banter and point fingers at one another. Bluntly speaking, I’m disappointed with the majority of people who aren’t on the right. We quite literally need to shut up, stop arguing constantly, and work together, while collectively standing in voice and action.

          • @nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            14 days ago

            I expect Trump to continue being a boogeyman so people like you can keep saying this instead of working for any real change that makes people’s lives better. ‘Just push Biden left’ turned into ‘Well you have no other choice’ real quick.

          • @Krono
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            -614 days ago

            I expect Trump to do horrible things. I expect Trump to be worse than Biden.

            What does that have to do with my questions?

            • @Xanis@lemmy.world
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              13 days ago

              It has everything to do with your question. Biden has already proven he is willing to roll over on many issues. Biden has gotten a lot done these last four years, far more than most of us expected. Meanwhile, and I am NOT downplaying the severity of the genocide, people like you are using that in exactly the same way you accuse people like me of using Trump. Thing is your reluctance to help Biden get into office, and acknowledgement of the likely atrocities Trump would attempt, does you no favors. You can’t see past your own anger to the bigger picture, and it’s a damn shame. Because where Biden buys us time to continue coming together and push for change, Trump will attempt to lock us, and the very many minorities, LGPTQ+ communities, and any person not white and certainly anyone who stands against him, possibly and quite literally behind bars. He is so damned bad that the ENTIRE WORLD was pushing back against his Presidency and are terrified of him winning again. Except Russia.

              Either we step the fuck up and stop being bitches and work together for a change over the next few years, or all this shit, every single part of it, will occur again in 2028. Including, as happens nearly every god damn fucking time, a serious situation that splits our attention and our support while the Right looks on and smirks. Every. Time. And we keep falling for it because we care.

              • @Krono
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                213 days ago

                I’m not angry, I was asking an honest question that no one has answered yet: how?

                You say you take the genocide seriously, and you say electing Biden is buying us time to push for change, so answer my question then:

                How will we effectively push the Biden administration to change Gaza policy after he is re-elected?

                • @Xanis@lemmy.world
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                  13 days ago

                  Not just Gaza. You’re stuck. Broader change. Biden is already showing he is willing to make changes and roll over on many issues. So we do what has always worked: We stand as a united voice. We come together to vote in more progressive local and State representatives while also collectively looking Biden in the eye and saying what we want.

                  None of this “If you won’t then I won’t.” bullshit. Literally one issue at a time.

                  The reason I’m angry is because this is actually incredibly simple. We live in an age where we can organize so god. damned. easily. Yet we keep finding ourselves at each other’s throats. Gaza IS a situation that is causing us to split. Yet not reelecting Biden is the wrong way to go right now because we don’t have a reasonable alternative. Not this time. This time it is truly binary.

                  So take that energy and carry it past the election and into further elections and further actions. Elevate our voice. We can still make that difference, though I feel we are slowly running out of time courtesy of the Republican party’s actions, and our own party’s inability to come to consensus. Both inside and outside the Chamber. Say what you will about Republicans: When it comes time to act, they often do so single-mindedly, even if it hurts them too.

            • @abracaDavid
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              -314 days ago

              Because that is literally the entire campaign for the DNC: “but what about Trump!”.

              They love Trump because he’s the ultimate boogeyman to strong-arm voters to fall into line.

    • @TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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      -214 days ago

      Hope for whom? A better future for whom? If personal selfishness outweighs the value of humanity, then we’ve already lost, and the outcome of the election is irrelevant.

    • @juicyOP
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      -2114 days ago

      Lesser of two evils works when we’re talking about blocking universal healthcare or police reform. When you use that bullshit to justify pulling the lever for genocide, you just don’t care that much about genocide.

      • @MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
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        2414 days ago

        And when you use that justification to enable someone who’s going to increase support of that genocide what does that make you? Sure sounds like you’re supporting more genocide than a Biden voter is.

        • It’s like people forgot how many Americans died during the height of the pandemic because T**** is a fucking idiot.

          Anyone who is even remotely near the crosshairs of the Christofascists needs to pull their head out of their ass and vote Democrat this election.

          The Republicunts don’t care if you think “both sides are bad” if you’re LGBTQ+, atheist, non-Christian, think abortion should be freely available, etc.

          Ideals and principles don’t stop bullets or beatings.

        • NoIWontPickAName
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          -814 days ago

          Hey, how about you just work with us this time and then here in four years we will pretend to care about what you wanna do.

          That seems to be the Democrat playbook anymore

          • @Railing5132@lemmy.world
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            914 days ago

            Oh suck rocks. There’s one party that does try to pass legislation that helps people, that is better for the environment, better allocations of spending priorities, and generally aren’t fucking cartoon villains.

            And it ain’t the Republicans.

            Being mad that things weren’t done the way we Think They Should Be™ and dismissing the realization that geopolitics is an extremely complex system is childish. Throwing temper tantrums, threatening to take your toys and go home because you didn’t get your way is childish.

            There are many factions to appease in the US electorate, particularly on the left. And while I personally feel like Israel should have been cut off decades ago which may have saved hundreds of thousands of lives, there are a lot more who feel differently. Am I going to hold that against the group that aligns with the majority of my aspirations even if they are stymied by christofacists at every turn? FUCK NO.

                • NoIWontPickAName
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                  -314 days ago

                  My guy, do you not understand that human lives are more important than anything else he can do?

                  He disregards that, and I’m ok with not being on team “Okay with killing children to get the other things we want.”

                  That is your team

          • Which is exactly why you shouldn’t be just tuning in every 4 years. Local elections, primaries, etc. People only pay attention every 4 years. That’s part of the reason why we’re here.

            • NoIWontPickAName
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              -414 days ago

              I know the names, office locations, and names of the assistants of my congressional representatives, do you?

              • Sounds like you’re perfectly capable of understanding how participation is beneficial. Maybe you could advocate more people participate and the resulting benefits vs cynical bullshit designed to turn people off entirely?

                • @juicyOP
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                  -514 days ago

                  Look at those goalposts fly!

          • Jackie's Fridge
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            514 days ago

            You’re not wrong, but it beats the GOP’s playbook, and it’ll buy us some time to do the actual work of building a viable third party that might have a chance after 20 years of constant support from local elections on up.

            Not voting sends no message other than you’re fine with how things are so you can’t be bothered. Threatening a comfy 2-party system with a solid alternative will make them sweat.

      • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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        013 days ago

        You’re standing in a room with two levers. If you pull the left one, five people die. If you pull the right one, ten people die. If you don’t pull one, it’s random, either five or ten people die.

        So if you choose not to pull, and ten people die, would you feel guilty for the five additional people? You could have prevented their deaths.

        • @Dkarma@lemmy.world
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          113 days ago

          Don’t bother. Those kind of ppl never accept responsibility for their actions so the trolley problem is irrelevant to them.

          They’re just virtue signalling to reduce Biden s support.

          • Inui [comrade/them]
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            313 days ago

            Funny you say this when you all refuse to accept your complicity in the murder of thousands right now.

        • @juicyOP
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          013 days ago

          Ooh, I love thought experiments! You’re in an auditorium. There are three stages. On one stage, a man is guilotining one child every ten minutes. He cries into his handkerchief. On another stage, a man is gleefully guilotining one child every ten minutes and periodically kicking a dog. Both men get loud applause from different sides of the auditorium. On the third stage, almost completely unnoticed by the crowd, Jill Stein juggles bowling pins while tossing candy to kids. A vote will be taken to see who stays on stage.

          • @juicyOP
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            313 days ago

            The train is barreling down a track with five people tied to the rails. It crushes them. You hear the screams and watch the blood spurt and then dribble. Ahead are another group of five people on the rails. You can let the train continue on its murderous path, throw a switch that will shift it onto a different track but cause another train to run over the people, or you can go call 911 because the people are going to be crushed no matter what.

          • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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            112 days ago

            You’re really saying Trump won’t (as he has very specifically said he want to) help Israel kill even more people?

            Or hell, even kill Americans? He’s floated that idea multiple times too.

            You’re using a lot of words to cover up your central premise: when it comes to death, Biden and Trump are equally bad.

            Which is how I know you’re a fucking shill.

  • @Dramaking37@lemmy.world
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    4314 days ago

    Glad to see the goldfish memory of voters who missed what happened the last 4 times this has happened. I’m sure it’ll fix it this time and isn’t just a recurring right-wing strategy to alienate voters on the left with propaganda.

    • deweydecibel
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      14 days ago

      They can’t remember further back than the last media cycle, and the can’t think forward further than a week.

      I guarantee at least some, likely all of these people were fucking pissed about the death of Roe. They learned nothing. Absolutely nothing.

      • @juicyOP
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        -2714 days ago

        You know what’s worse than denial of the right to choose? Genocide. That’s what we got for electing Joe Biden last time. Fool me once, etc, etc.

        • @MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
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          2114 days ago

          … completely ignoring the only other option was “even more genocide than that”. We didn’t get genocide because we elected Joe Biden. We got genocide because right wingers in Israel want to conduct a genocide. Removing Biden from the equation and replacing him with Trump does not improve the situation. Doing that would be the actual foolish move.

          • @juicyOP
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            -714 days ago

            We got genocide because Biden refuses to hold Israel accountable for its actions like even Ronald Reagan did. Don’t pretend that he doesn’t have blood on his hands.

          • NoIWontPickAName
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            14 days ago

            So why not just say “I will not run for reelection, I have too much controversy, let’s run someone else.”?

            Instead they are just barreling on with this motherfucker.

            Edit: To to too.

            • @MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
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              1014 days ago

              Because the incumbency advantage is incredibly powerful, Biden has beaten Trump before, and no other viable Democrats have indicated they want to run this election. I too would prefer someone else but it’s not like Biden there aren’t solid strategic reasons to run him again.

              • NoIWontPickAName
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                -714 days ago

                If Biden steps down then the dnc won’t be holding everyone else from stepping up.

                Or maybe he could just STOP SENDING BOMBS and we would have much less of an issue.

                If it’s too much trouble to get enough Americans to decide that we should stop sending bombs to kill kids then we deserve what we get

                • @Railing5132@lemmy.world
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                  414 days ago

                  Ah… the: “I’ve chosen this hill for everyone to die on” gambit.

                  Thinking like a child. May age bring you wisdom and peace.

  • deweydecibel
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    4314 days ago

    it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected. The questions remain: does the Democratic party fear Trump as much as we do?

    If you fear him, why would you not assist in preventing his rise?

    If you give a shit about Palestine, why would you not support the better candidate for them? You think Trump will do anything to make this situation better?

    The logical fallacy at play here is so glaring I can’t believe these journalists are willing to put their name to it.

    • @juicyOP
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      213 days ago

      You’re out to sea if you think it would be any better under Trump. It would be the same. Palestine is fucked, but we don’t have to let Dems get away with genocide with zero consequences.

    • @juicyOP
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      -3614 days ago

      Removed by mod

      • @imkali@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2614 days ago

        Biden somewhat dances around the idea of helping Palestinians, while Trump avoids referring to them as people. Both are terrible by any metric, but one is miles ahead.

        • @juicyOP
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          -214 days ago

          Words don’t mean squat. Actions are what matters, and the actions would be the same.

      • @AbidanYre@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        If you honestly believe it would be the same:

        1. I’d get banned for telling you what I really think.

        2. That particular issue zeros out and Democrats are still better on literally every other issue.

        • @juicyOP
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          If genocide costs the Dems the election, they will be forced to reevaluate their relationship with Israel, and they will think twice before doing something else similarly morally outrageous in the future. We need the Democratic Party to stand for human decency or this country is irredeemable because the Republicans certainly won’t. We must discipline the party, and if it doesn’t learn the lesson, it needs to be destroyed and replaced.

          When a government outspends every other military in the world by a factor of 3, it’s crucial that it have a conscience. Dissent voters are that conscience.

        • @juicyOP
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          113 days ago

          deleted by creator

      • @Jeanschyso@lemmy.world
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        113 days ago

        If we’re talking countries that are being attacked without cause, should we talk about how Trump doesn’t want to support Ukraine’s defense? You literally only care about one issue, don’t you? This whole election is riding on one point in a thousand possible issues to consider.

        • @juicyOP
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          113 days ago

          I care about 15,000 issues. Each one an innocent child murdered with American bombs.

        • @juicyOP
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          213 days ago

          Fair enough, but I think we’re borderline splitting hairs.

          delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

          The word can be used in mental health contexts, but it’s in common usage as a synonym for “profoundly mistaken.” I can see the argument for calling it ableist, but it’s tenuous.

            • @juicyOP
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              413 days ago

              I’m genuinely stumped then. Do you mind explaining?

                • @Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
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                  112 days ago

                  Hello! I was curious, was this post going to be restored and the actual reported uncivil comment removed? From what I’m seeing, this reported comment is still up and active.

                • @juicyOP
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                  113 days ago

                  Oh! I think you accidently removed the parent comment instead. I can still see the offending comment here:

                  Meanwhile, my app shows this:

                  I was actually one of the people who reported that comment.

      • @Dkarma@lemmy.world
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        -113 days ago

        Are you fucking retarded? Trump amped this up by moving the capital of Israel to Jerusalem.

        Jesus Christ get a fucking clue.

        If Trump is elected Palestine is leveled.

        He literally said he’d “finish the job”

        • @juicyOP
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          313 days ago

          If Trump is elected Palestine is leveled.

          Fixed that for you

        • @Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
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          213 days ago

          They’re being leveled now, soooo, what really changes? Tbh I’m not even convinced biden will make it stop in his second term, it’ll be back to business as usual.

  • @WamGams@lemmy.ca
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    3714 days ago

    I mean… If your goal is to end a genocide and you help get a guy who said “finish the job” elected, yeah, it is your fault.

    Let us not pretend otherwise.

    • @EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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      -1814 days ago

      Uncommitted votes don’t help Trump. You know this, you’re just too much of a pussy to say you wanna murder more Palestinians

      • @WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        1214 days ago

        Wow, that is an incredibly unhinged thing to say to somebody.

        I think if you are taking it on yourself to be a steward of the Palestinian people, you have to act respectable.

        • @EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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          -1014 days ago

          You get to talk about respectability when you stop supporting genocide. If you don’t support genocide, why oppose voting uncommitted?

            • @nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              14 days ago

              Honest question, has speaking respectfully and calmly helped a single Palestinian person? It’s not like the US was listening until the uncommitted votes and the college protests.

              • @WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                114 days ago

                Which specific real world protestors are acting as unhinged as this person was? From what I have seen, this behavior is exclusively among online communists, not actual pro-palestine protestors.

            • @EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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              14 days ago

              Why oppose voting uncommitted other than because you support genocide? Legit give me one reason in the entire world to oppose voting uncommitted other than because you want to send the message to Biden that Palestinian genocide doesn’t matter/is good

              • @WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                214 days ago

                Why behave this way towards other people unless you support genocide?

                You aren’t doing a damn thing to help Palestinians, you are just treating random people terribly and feeling good about yourself because of it.

                I

                • @EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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                  -514 days ago

                  Hey look, it’s a liberal genocide supporter deflecting rather than owning their shit views!

                  Why bother being quiet about it? Why not say it? Or deny it if it’s not the case? Because you know that everyone else will know you’re a piece of shit if you’re too honest about it. Fuck off zionist, know that you’re not at all sly about how much you love dead Palestinian children

        • @EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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          13 days ago

          What other reason is there to not vote uncommitted? These are democratic primaries, trump gets nothing here. Give me one good reason not to take this free opportunity to let biden know genocide isn’t ok

          • @Jeanschyso@lemmy.world
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            013 days ago

            First past the post voting, two party system means that mathematically, you are placing half a vote on Biden and half a vote on Trump by abstaining democracy doesn’t exist in the United States. Sorry you had to learn it this way. It’s also on its way out over here in Canada, don’t worry we’re catching up :(

            Alternatively you could vote for whoever has the best platform LOCALLY in YOUR country, whoever that may be, and send angry letters letting them know that while you support some of their policies, you are uncomfortable with the president’s lack of support for a cause you consider just.

          • @Dkarma@lemmy.world
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            -113 days ago

            Primarying an incumbent is the surest way to fail…c’mon man that’s poly sci 101

            Are you trying to be laughed at cuz you’re being laughed at.

            • @EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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              13 days ago

              How can that lead to failure? He’s literally the incumbent, there’s basically no chance of him losing, and if he does that’s a clear sign someone else would have more support. Tf is your point? Rhetorical question, I know your point: you want more Palestinians to die but you’re too smart to say it out loud. Vote uncommitted motherfucker, there’s no reason not to other than to be complicit in genocide

    • @juicyOP
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      -3414 days ago

      Are you talking about the time Trump said the genocide is a bad look? Trump might not have a moral conscience, but at least he is has a political self-preservation instinct. Biden is blind-walking over a cliff in his genocidal determination.

      • @WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        1714 days ago

        As evidence that much of the movement is an explicit AstroTurf for the Trump campaign, I present article 1: this statement from a man named Juicy.

  • @criitz@reddthat.com
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    1314 days ago

    What happens in November is up to Biden – it will not be the fault of the protest voter if Trump is elected.

    If Trump is elected, I will blame both Biden AND the protest voter.

    • NoIWontPickAName
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      -614 days ago

      But not the people who chose someone supporting genocidal actions instead of the people demanding better.

      It’s this simple, if all of y’all who spend your time trying to convince those of us who don’t want to support sending Israel all the weaponry they want, while defending them against the consequences of their own actions, while using our money to do so, and having Israel use $13b a year of our money to do so, would instead work with us, we could actually make a change:

      And if at the end of the day that causes us to lose, it means that America is full of people who support this and they should get their way.

      At least we find out where we really stand.

      You guys spend all day trying to drag us to the side of “ Okay with sending bombs to kill more children.”, maybe you could drag people to the side of “Let’s not send more bombs to kill kids:”

      I know which side I am staying on, and if we get outvoted, such is democracy.

      • Jackie's Fridge
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        1014 days ago

        People demanding better is not a side, and thus cannot win. The let’s not bomb kids side has zero power. Your choice is between bombing kids and bombing more kids. Enabling the bombing more kids side means your fake morals outweigh the sloppy real-world political situation that actually exists.

        Your house is on fire. You are standing equidistant from a full petrol can and a bucket of water, and you’re deciding not to act because neither is the perfect solution.

        • @orcrist@lemm.ee
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          -314 days ago

          In the short term, your position is justifiable. But in the long term, it’s anti-democratic. The reasoning you’ve provided here has been used for many elections in the past and can be used forever into the future. But if we’re forced to choose between two bad parties, and there’s never a chance of a third party accomplishing anything good, then nobody will ever represent us.

          And if we’re stuck in a non-democracy forever, then it makes sense for people to pursue other more radical solutions. Is that what you want? It’s the natural implication of your message.

          • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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            -113 days ago

            Okay, whatever, while you’re planning your grand revolution thing can you please for fucks sake vote for the option that kills fewer kids?

            • @orcrist@lemm.ee
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              113 days ago

              Your desire to support the two-party system above all else is what leads to alienation, on the right and on the left. It’s you who is pushing the country towards a grand revolution, not me.

              • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                112 days ago

                The two party system is, it doesn’t need my support and your abstaining from participation will not harm it. The two party system will chug merrily along until Republicans end democracy.

                • @orcrist@lemm.ee
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                  112 days ago

                  Your comments are contradictory. First you say I should vote, and then you say it’s pointless. Meh.

        • NoIWontPickAName
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          -914 days ago

          Or work with us to pick a different candidate.

          Make clear we won’t stand for him and that their only option is to run a new candidate.

          As long as you keep giving them what they want, they won’t change

          • @AbidanYre@lemmy.world
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            714 days ago

            Name one candidate with the name recognition to win who has also expressed an interest in running in 2024.

            • NoIWontPickAName
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              -514 days ago

              Ah, there’s the rub isn’t it, they wont run another candidate because everyone is supposed to just fall I. Line.

              Run Whitmer, she did great things in WI

              • @Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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                013 days ago

                And conspiracy theories, like it always boils down to. “They” lol.

                Whitmer would be sending aid to Israel. Every politician would.

                • NoIWontPickAName
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                  213 days ago

                  Then we pick someone who wouldn’t.

                  Would it be difficult? Yes

                  Would it have a chance to fail? Yes

                  Would the stakes be high? Yes

                  Would it be the most American fucking thing to do, to stand up for what is right instead of easy, to protect those who need it most, to take the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, and to stand shield for them? Yes

                  Fuck Nationalism in all its evilness, instead let’s be what we said we would be and start fucking actually working towards it.

                  Let’s live up to that, instead of aiming for mediocrity.

                  America is at its best when it’s the underdog.

  • @nexguy@lemmy.world
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    713 days ago

    It won’t be the protest voters fault of Trump is elected but it would be something they could have prevented. Four more years of radical conservative judge appointments would create generations of degradation of women and minority group rights.

    • @orcrist@lemm.ee
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      813 days ago

      If that happens, protest voters could have prevented it, the DNC could have prevented it, Biden himself could have prevented it, all of the state governors and state legislators who didn’t fix gerrymandering and voter suppression efforts could have prevented it. You and I could have prevented it if we had gone door-to-door to get more people to the polling places. And so on.

      It’s easy to say that any one group could have prevented it, but how do you choose who to target when doing so?

      • @nexguy@lemmy.world
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        113 days ago

        So then protest voters are just wasting time by not voting since their protest doesn’t matter?

        • @orcrist@lemm.ee
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          212 days ago

          So then protest voters are just wasting time by not voting since their protest doesn’t matter?

          Protest voters actually do vote. By definition.

  • @treefrog@lemm.ee
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    614 days ago

    I’m voting for Biden. Harm reduction as the article said. But, I have a much better understanding of why people would protest vote after reading the article.

    And if Trump wins 2024, we can’t put all of the blame on protest voters, when Democrats aren’t listening to their base.

  • @umbrella@lemmy.ml
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    514 days ago

    yeah thats what we are saying.

    and if both options mean genocide (or one is only less bad about it, whatever that means) them its time to reconsider if you truly live in a democracy

    • @theonyltruemupf@feddit.de
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      614 days ago

      US democracy is weak. With first past the post voting, a two party system is inevitable. But not voting Biden because he is “genocidal” is the dumbest excuse ever.

      Fight to change the voting system, but don’t fight it by getting a literal fascist elected. Because that’s what you are responsible for if you don’t vote.

      • @juicyOP
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        -614 days ago

        What’s dumb is putting “genocidal” in scare quotes and acting like genocide is not actually that big of a deal. I won’t vote for Biden or Trump because I value my vote too much to give it to an evil scumbag, red or blue. I’ll vote for Jill Stein or Cornel West.

        • @theonyltruemupf@feddit.de
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          213 days ago

          Look, the humanitarian situation in Gaza is indisputably horrible and it’s absolutely the fault of Israel’s government. It may very well be genocide. International investigations will show.
          Right now, it’s a war zone and it’s very hard to gather reliable evidence. That’s why I put it in quotes.

          Not voting for Biden on this single issue is insane. It directly benefits Trump who, other than Biden, won’t try to ease the situation. He will actively make the conflict worse. He’ll also do his best to dismantle what is left of US democracy and worsen the lives of millions of people.

          Fight for a better voting system. Protest against Biden’s foreign policy. But please don’t throw away your vote and give the world another term of Trump.

        • @PRUSSIA_x86@lemmy.world
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          -113 days ago

          So which is it? Jill Stein or Cornel West? You can’t vote for both and I suspect that if you were being sincere you would know.

          • @juicyOP
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            013 days ago

            The most salient fact for me is that they are both against genocide, so no, I don’t know. I might flip a coin. I could even vote for De La Cruz. I guess I’m just a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma!

        • @Dkarma@lemmy.world
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          -113 days ago

          How will stein or West get past 270?

          They can’t

          Congrats you’re still helping trump.

          Logic really isn’t your strong suit is it?

          • @juicyOP
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            213 days ago

            You could equally argue I’m helping Biden by not voting for Trump. So tell me Professor Logic, what does it mean if the same reasoning can be used to argue that I’m helping both Biden and Trump?

        • @capital_sniff@lemmy.world
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          -113 days ago

          I guess if you live in an already decided stronghold state then go vote for whatever you want. Otherwise, don’t let a fantasy get in the way of the only obvious option if you like democracy.

          • @juicyOP
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            13 days ago

            Otherwise, don’t let a fantasy get in the way of the only obvious option if you like democracy genocide.

  • AutoTL;DRB
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    114 days ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    With this reality looming, many Democratic party loyalists are panicked about the “leave it blank” movement, in which hundreds of thousands of voters have marked “uncommitted” on their primary ballots to protest against US support of Israel’s war on Gaza.

    The protest vote is a moral and strategic position that challenges the establishment, delegitimizes the two-party system, and invalidates the assumption that the party line is the voter’s only consideration.

    Last month, in primaries in Michigan, Hawaii, Minnesota and Washington, more than 200,000 voters cast “uncommitted” anti-war protest votes, demanding that Biden call for a ceasefire to the horrifying, US-financed genocide in Gaza and an end to Israeli occupation.

    In 2008, for instance, Barack Obama was denied a line on the ballot in the Michigan primaries, making Hillary Clinton the only option for Democratic voters.

    That margin signaled trouble for the Clinton establishment, and the fact that a majority of those uncommitted votes were cast by Black and young people suggested a potential upset that would soon materialize: Obama went on to win the primaries and delegate counts that would make him the party’s candidate.

    As we scroll social media through endless images of death, starvation, grief and the devastation of critical institutions like hospitals and schools, Americans are recognizing we must do more for Palestine.


    The original article contains 800 words, the summary contains 216 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • @EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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    013 days ago

    Welcome to Dumbass City, population: everyone itt saying that not voting biden in the primaries will somehow get trump elected xD yall are legit just as stupid as trump supporters, you straight up have no idea how primaries work but you’re too proud and too blindly, unshakably loyal to admit it cx vote uncommitted or vote for genocide, those are your options and you’ve made your opinions very clear on the matter. Have a shit day! Hope you trip and fall into a thorny bush :3

    • @hark@lemmy.world
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      513 days ago

      Democrats demand party unity but will unify only to the center while the republicans keep moving the center further to the right. They like to claim that the left is doing purity testing, but democrats are the biggest purity testers, where you have to do things their way or they say you’re being unreasonable and unrealistic and they will probably label you a republican in secret or a russian asset for daring to hold a different opinion.

  • @njm1314@lemmy.world
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    -114 days ago

    No it’s going to be their fault. If we lose Social Security, Medicare, public schooling, basically every social safety net, any regulatory power the government has, and a right to free and fair elections then that will absolutely be on them. They’ve said that those things don’t matter to them in this scenario. If you’re for the destruction of all that then fuck you. It’s pretty simple.