God bless single issue voters.
Stepping back to an objective human suffering standpoint, the Trump admin is dismantling environmental protections that would soften the coming climate-collapse holocaust. We’ve whiplashed back 80+ years and lost decades of institutional knowledge; even physical infrastructure in NASA’s case.
This is an issue that objectively has only progressed through D efforts and been defended even through R administrations. Millions of people will needlessly die, particularly those oppressed in the global south, from the actions of this admin. But Genocide Joe was an unpalatable humanitarian choice?
There’s no rationality to their stance, they just base their politics on visceral emotional reactions. It’s the exact same blind moral purity as pro-birthers and they deserve the same derision.
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“Neither was good, so I refuse to participate and willfully allow the worst to happen. Now I get to feel morally superior to those who took action against the worst because the alternative was flawed.” Fuck all the way off you absolute asshat. What was and is happening in Gaza is a fucking atrocity. And your lack of vote not only didn’t fix a goddamned thing, if anything, it only made it worse and also allowed a myriad of other atrocities happening now and more soon to come. You are a joke and a moron.
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I have no illusions that American politicians of all parties have actively or complicity committed terrible crimes against other nations. In no way shape or form do I support any of it. But I also live in this country in an area that would never vote me into office of any kind, and so short of a massive paradigm shift or revolution, the most influence I can have on the future of this country is by voting and encouraging others to do the same. And like it or not, sometimes that means voting for the lesser of two evils. If that makes me evil too in your mind, then you can go fuck yourself. I’m doing the best I can. And anyone that can’t also do that bare minimum can fuck themselves too.
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“You claim to hate genocide, and yet you voted for Biden/Trump.”
“You claim to hate capitalism, and yet you own a smartphone”
Same energy and level of thought, dude.
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Are you under the delusion that Trump would have Isreal do anything different? That he won’t do shit exactly like that himself if he decides it would benefit him to do so? That he won’t empower more despots and dictators, arm them, back them, and lead to more mass death of innocents. I mean worse FOR EVERYONE, dick.
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Right on cue. And yes it’s a political issue, it pretty snugly fits the common definition.
Political issues refer to matters that are of public concern and involve conflicting viewpoints within a society, often requiring governmental action or public policy to address them
Trying to pretend it’s something sacrosanct and beyond politics is what makes a single issue voter.
Ah yes the
genocide in gazalegal murder of babies is an “issue”. A slight inconvenience reallyThat’s you.
If you actually cared about the lives of people in the middle east you should be just as outraged over Trump unilaterally bombing a sovereign state, direct military action that wouldn’t have happened with the Democratic candidates.
Or, as I pointed out, the deliberate climate destruction that will literally boil more people alive with wet bulb events.
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Damn why so mad, my candidate didn’t bomb those people when given the exact same chance. Or are we back to campaigning against hypotheticals instead of reality?
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Okie dokie, still didn’t bomb Iran
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Projected climate collapse deaths by 2050: 14.5 million, about 250k per year.
Gaza deaths to date: in the range of 80k-100k, hard ceiling of ~2 million.
What could be more sacrosanct than the one and only habitable planet we’ll ever get? Certainly not a piece of paper?
I live in a first world country with solid resource access, I can tell you for sure I won’t affected as much as the people being cooked to death in India. Why should I care about them?
It’s revealing that you weigh one favorite group of starving victims against the millions of others. Just because one is direct human cruelty and the other is direct and malicious social murder?
Don’t tell me you care about both equally, because that’s clearly not the vote you want to cast.
Yup. We had a chance to maybe turn the bus but no, we’re going right off the cliff, gunning the engine no less, thanks to people who would rather cling to a single issue instead of mitigate harm across the wider spectrum.
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Voting options were not:
A. Genocide
B. No genocide
They were: A. Genocide in Gaza
B: genocide in Gaza + maybe Ukraine + maybe losing democracy + rolling back environmental protections + enabling the best friend of a known pedophile child trafficker… Etc
C. B, but with a side of smug self satisfying moral high ground
You are not more moral for choosing C.
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Guess what, you can both care about the environment AND not commit genocide.
Oh really? Which candidate on the ballot in 2024 who had that platform? None? Well I guess I’ll opt for the one that’s at least 1 for 2.
The conversation was always about harm reduction, but keep imagining that one policy is the only thing that matters.
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You can’t be a pedant and also be bad at it. You just sound like an idiot.
Oh wait, you think somehow that allowing the Trump regime to take power was the optimal play. Let me correct myself. You are an idiot.
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Damn, in my hypothetical fantasy land Harris solved the crisis and fostered a perfect two state solution. I guess we’ll never know how it would play out now because we elected a fascist. “Couldn’t be worse” right?
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It’s almost like the “deal” we’re weighing is way fucking bigger than one issue. I’m sure next election will have a plethora of progressive candidates and some nice friendly brown-shirt poll watchers cheering us on (we sure taught the dems a lesson right 😎 (don’t worry Gaza, help is on the way, just a slight detour through CECOT))
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lol.
“Tell me again how voting for genocide was unavoidable?”
You need me to explain how the American election system works?
Why don’t you grow up?
Most rational accelerationist
Harris lost, and you still can’t realize that your stance caused it. Better to blame the leftists for … checks notes … having values that she lacked.
For example, what if she had been anti genocide? That would have been a sight to see.
Harris lost, and you still can’t realize that your stance caused it.
Yes, my stance that the lesser of two evils is lesser than the greater evil is what caused Harris’s loss.
Better to blame the leftists for … checks notes … having values that she lacked.
‘Leftists’ whose ‘value’ was that Palestinian genocide should receive full support, so they can continue playing campist games over the bodies of as many dead Palestinians as possible?
I love that my existence has to be ‘earned’ according to these people. If Blue Circus isn’t entertaining enough to ‘earn’ their vote, me and everyone else endangered by a fascist administration can go fuck ourselves.
Some of us may die, but that’s a sacrifice the Purity Brigade is willing to make.
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And what happens when team blue decides your minority group is an acceptable sacrifice, as they’re currently doing for trans people? They already threw the Palestinian Americans on the pyre, and they’re going for trans folks next.
The problem with looking the other way when some other group is thrown under the bus is that inevitably your ticket will be called. In 2028, it’s going to be trans folks and their allies that are being bullied into supporting a conservative democrat like Newsom, even though he would take the Democrats the same direction as British Labor.
I just can’t understand this hubris and arrogance. You actually expect people to vote for their own annihilation.
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And what happens when team blue decides your minority group is an acceptable sacrifice, as they’re currently doing for trans people?
The vast majority of Dem politicians remain in support of trans issues.
They already threw the Palestinian Americans on the pyre, and they’re going for trans folks next.
The Dems have supported Palestinian genocide for at least the past forty fucking years. In that time, Dems have improved markedly on trans issues.
It’s not as simple as you want it to be, but since simplicity would absolve you of your actual, real complicity in both the genocide of Palestinians and the additional crimes and genocides of the Trump administration, you crave simplicity.
The problem with looking the other way when some other group is thrown under the bus is that inevitably your ticket will be called.
You’re absolutely right, this is why the civil rights movement should have refused all participation in American politics until LGBT rights were established as well.
By your logic, the Dems should have been throwing an ever-greater number of minorities under the bus since… what, the entire 20th century? Yet demonstrably, they have become more minority-positive, not less. I guess facts don’t matter when you have fascists to carry water for, though, huh?
I just can’t understand this hubris and arrogance. You actually expect people to vote for their own annihilation.
“Please vote for less annihilation.”
“Actually, I’d prefer more.”
Sorry for finding self-destructive behavior that damages others as well both repugnant and strategically idiotic?
But sure, tell me how the Harris admin would have been more-destructive or even simply as-destructive towards Arab and Muslim-American communities than the fucking Trump admin, I’m dying to hear about how opting for the fascist was the real act of self-preservation.
Good ol’ accelerationism.
It’s not my vote they have to earn, it’s the millions of people who are suffering under the current economic conditions. Telling them the maeket is better than ever while they can’t make ends meet isn’t going to swing any voters. Democrats need to either literally militarize against Trump or start offering tangible things to people that will help them. People know that Trump is bad, they just hope that he manages to change their situation somehow. But the Democrats dont care about working people (neither do the Republicans) and only want to help their boss/landlord.
That’s a question of strategy, and I agree entirely. Dems are not offering what they need to be offering.
My point is that “Dems need to EARN my vote” is not a morally acceptable position for any individual to take, and should not be accepted as such - it’s no different than saying “Marginalized demographics need to EARN the right to survive” - with the added humiliation and helplessness of being dependent on someone else’s ‘performance’ to earn our lives.
People know that Trump is bad,
I think you overestimate the electorate. Most Americans are not ‘tuned-in’ to politics.
I’m sorry, but that’s simply how politics works. I’m going to vote for the politician who’s giving me the best deal. If Democrats can’t do it, I’m voting for the Green Party.
“I prefer the deal for fascism that lets me pat myself on the back, over the deal against fascism” is not a very non-fascist thing to say.
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We shouldn’t enable fascism by any means, especially in the information era. But, if fascism is already there, we should organize resistance and defend the people that suffer from it, by that building trust that builds our political capital, so to speak. But not enable it, as it fights more against us than against capitalism.
Godspeed. At this point, I’m trying to maintain my current routine of political activity so as to not to collapse into total despair and passivity. That path leads to death.
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You shouldn’t have to vote for evil just because the other side is more evil. Dont get me wrong… I did and will again but I shouldn’t have to and I wont fault anyone for not. I have enough people to hate already.
“Shouldn’t have to” in a just world, but we don’t live in a just world. Imagine advocating, for example, for the USSR to be abandoned to the Nazis, because the USSR was also a bunch of genocidal imperialist scumbags.
Choosing the lesser evil is not morally optional if your choices are reduced to only evils.
I don’t have the ‘luxury’ of feeling neutrally about people who’ve very quite possibly fucking killed me in the next few years.
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Right, because what is happening right now is somehow better for them.
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lol yeah too bad they lost and now we have a sitting republican president that is still helping to facilitate the expansion of Israel and genocide of Palestinians while also making everything else worse, too. Yup, it’s too bad that not voting for democrats means that something even worse happens!
“What’s worse than genocide?” i hear you say.
“Genocide plus all the other atrocities we get to face now”
“There is no such thing as genocide light!!! Black and white!! Nuance doesn’t exist!”
Shut your stupid fucking mouth. I have heard these arguments enough. You are actively supporting genocide in Palestine as well as domestic genocide within America, not to mention the fact that you are supporting economic hardship for people across the world.
“At least I don’t support genocide-” Lol. Shut up. Yes, you do. Your actions, your inactions, the actions and inactions of the people you agree with, have lead to this situation.
So sure. Say that I support genocide. Say the democrats support genocide. I don’t care what you have to say. You’re a spineless idiot, and the only way I’ll ever take you seriously is if you take an actually actionable step towards fixing the issue. But you never will. Instead, you’ll sit around on lemmy complaining about the lesser evil while the greater evil actively kills everyone around you.
Fuck yourself.
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Do you understand the concept of the trolley problem? Lmfao
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Grow up. It sucks to jave to choose the lessetlr evil but it is by definition better than the greater evil, and these people yoi don’t fault were6directly responsible for causing gje greater evil when they refused to make that choice. They have blood on their hands, and a lot of it.
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Disgusting. They sacrifice innocents and not for a sure thing either.
Not even for a serious chance, which they would know if they paid attention to any of the history they claim to be inspired by. Revolutions do not spring out of discontent; discontent is widespread in numerous non-revolting societies. Revolutions spring out of groundwork, the long, boring, tedious task of organizing, educating, and raising class consciousness. The thing these people are so goddamn sure will spontaneously arise once the state gets totalitarian enough, like North Korea.
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‘Liberals always choose fascism!’
*Divides Poland*
*This*
The 3.5% of people bro, the Epstein files bro, the lawsuits bro trust me, home more lawsuit and we defeat facism…
i’m sure the next old ghoul with a blue D on his shirt will save you from fascism.
also conflating socdems and libs with communists lol.
i’m sure the next old ghoul with a blue D on his shirt will save you from fascism.
Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll still be advocating for the fascist then.
also conflating socdems and libs with communists lol.
… do you not know who Thalmann is.
Or do you not understand the quoted section is about his opposition to ‘socdems and libs’ in favor of cheerleading for fascists, just like you?
i like how you will not let go of the strawman that we are somehow campaigning for trump.
you should actually talk to leftists in good faith instead of this bullshit.
Whenever you guys stop regurgitating Trump/Putin talking points is when people will stop thinking you are campaigning for Trump. We can only judge you on your actions, and spreading right wing propaganda is what you guys do.
when did marxism become a right wing ideology? please enlighten me on your infinite lib wisdom.
not like we are on a comm named “pragmatic leftist theory” right??
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i like how you will not let go of the strawman that we are somehow campaigning for trump.
“I didn’t campaign for Trump, I just worked against the anti-fascist coalition candidate!”
When there are only two choices and you work against one, you are supporting the other. I’m sorry if that’s too complex for you to parse.
I’m sure you would’ve insisted that all sides were bad in WW2, and thus sat with your thumb up your ass as the Nazis genocided Europe.
you should actually talk to leftists in good faith instead of this bullshit.
I talk to plenty of good-faith leftists. Tankie fucks like you, on the other hand, can go fuck yourselves.
anti-fascist coalition candidate
WHAT??? which one???
you mean the conservative fascist joe biden? the one funding concentration camps for immigrants before it was cool? or the one who massively ramped up genocide in gaza?
please come back to reality.
WHICH ONE???
Harris. The only one with a chance at victory. The only one with an actual coalition instead of a handful of purity-testers jerking each other off about how wonderful it would be to ensure a fascist victory.
you mean the conservative fascist joe biden? the one funding concentration camps for immigrants before it was cool? or the one who massively ramped up genocide in gaza?
Lord.
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Harris.
you mean the actual cop openly saying they would keep up with the genocide? the one the party shoehorned in last minute? this your anti-fascist coalition? 🤡
you are not about to blame me for that clusterfuck are you?
you mean the cop openly saying they would keep up with the genocide? omg this your anti-fascist coalition? 🤡
Astounding. Any amount of bad-faith bullshit to bootlick for Nazis. Anything to support Palestinian genocide, it would seem - genocided Palestinians make great ‘martyrs’ for you to jerk yourself off with.
you are not about to blame me for that clusterfuck are you?
what
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They’ll never save me from fascism because I’ll never vote for anyone with a D by their name!
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the number of 3rd party voters would not have affected the outcome if they all voted for harris and her support of genocide.
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-ELECTION/RESULTS/zjpqnemxwvx/
want to win against nazis? stop putting nazis up in your own “progressive” party. (for those who don’t get it: harris is a nazi)
the number of 3rd party voters would not have affected the outcome if they all voted for harris and her support of genocide.
The number of protest abstainers was literal millions of voters, including almost 10 million 2020 Biden voters.
want to win against nazis? stop putting nazis up in your own “progressive” party. (for those who don’t get it: harris is a nazi)
Lord.
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i mentioned only 3rd party voters maybe i misunderstood the op. my bad.
but yes. harris had a year to push against the genocide she supported. this makes her involved in crimes against humanity an not worth running. next dem primary, if the rug is not pulled from us AGAIN, I’ll again vote for the person not ok with genocide.
Harris was not worth running, I agree.
Unfortunately, if the choices are reduced to “Harris” or “Trump”, the answer - from a position of harm reduction - should be obvious.
We fight the mainstream Dems when we can, where we can. I’m a two-time Bernie voter, and if he’d ran in the 2024 primaries, I would’ve voted for him again. But that’s also not an excuse to let fascists win in the general election. No one was saved by preventing Harris from winning - many people - including many more Palestinians - will die because Trump got into office.
i do not disagree. however i just could not cast my vote for genocide even if she’s less genocide than trump. it’s a binary thing with me. i could not not vote too. sigh.
the dem primary process is always so… “gummy”
As a Canadian poet-philosopher once said, “If you choose not to decide/You still have made a choice.”
When presented with the option of lesser evil or greater evil, if you say “Whatever everyone else decides is fine with me”, which is what abstaining or protest voting in a FPTP system with two near-majority support candidates is, you have chosen in favor of the eventual victor. Which was, unfortunately, the fucking fascist in this case.
Every candidate in my lifetime for either party has been in favor of the ongoing Palestinian genocide by Israel, to varying degrees of support. Yet if I were to find myself in 2000, the thought of refusing to cast a vote for Gore over Bush is morally repugnant - Gore supported Israel, but Bush supported Israel more and, with the benefit of hindsight (and probably some contemporary analysis as well), cause millions of additional deaths outside of that as well.
No amount of “Nader was the better candidate” changes what that abstention or protest vote means, in practical terms, of what a citizen is supporting. It means increasing the chances of the worse candidate winning - it means increasing the chances of millions more dying for no gain of substance to anyone - including the people you’re claiming to protest for - and in many cases, this case included, at their further expense.
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i get that. i do. but we “finally” had a candidate that was outwardly anti-genocide.
i wish we had ranked choice voting.
i get that. i do. but we “finally” had a candidate that was outwardly anti-genocide.
Who? De La Cruz and Stein were both in favor of Ukrainian genocide.
i wish we had ranked choice voting.
Yeah.
If you get it, why didn’t you vote for her?
Rush were MASSIVE libertarian disciples of Ayn Rand who blamed the rise of punk rock on “the failures of socialism”. Maybe they aren’t who you want to be quoting right now.
So who do you think the 10 million people are that voted for Biden in 2020 but not Harris are?
Do you think that they are leftists who refused to vote? Because if that is true, then the Democrats ABSOLUTELY needed their support and should have done everything they could to court that group instead of the couple dozen old Bush supporters that don’t like Trump, such as the Cheneys.
Do you think that they are just normal, politically illiterate people who saw their quality of life plummet the past 4 years? Why didn’t the Dems do more to help them and get them to take time off from their second job to fo vote? Why was the Democrats message fail to resonate with them?
Do you think that they were put off by Kamala’s race/gender? So then why did the Democrats force her as the candidate instead of holding an actual primary? Was she just a glass cliff candidate so that they could run the same terrible campaign and just blame the voters instead?
Whatever way you want to slice it, the Democrats lost in 2024 because they have zero idea what their voters want/need. They only care about their corporate donors. The Democrats keep loosing elections and you keep blaming voters instead of the party that keeps loosing.
The Democrats keep loosing elections and you keep blaming voters instead of the party that keeps loosing.
This may be a shock, but more than one actor can be at fault at once. Yes, really.
People who refuse to vote against literal, explicit, clearly stated fascism are at fault for literal fascism winning elections.
The Dem Party, by being varying degrees of incompetent and self-absorbed, is also at fault for failing to win over voters who don’t give a fuck how many minorities die.
Sorry that you feel that welcoming fascists into power has no moral implications.
