• SirSamuel@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Not the weirdest, but I didn’t realize this until it was pointed out.

    The fascination with work, and how one’s employment or career is tied to personal identity. It’s a basic conversation starter, “What do you do for work?” Not “What do you enjoy doing?” or “Do you have any hobbies?” or “Where do you go to relax?” Nope.

    What to you do for work.

    It’s a weird question that is tied up in judgement and classism. And it’s so normal here

    • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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      Trevor Noah has a section about this in a recent standup. Something likei if you ask a European what they do they answer with hobbies, americans answer with their job title.

      • Kira
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        Just my experience from germany but when people ask what you do, you usually say what Job you have and where the Company is.

    • r0ertel@lemmy.world
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      I’ve found this only to be true in white collar professions. Hanging out with blue collar people, your job rarely comes up, but it’s one of the first questions with white collar people.

      • Revan343@lemmy.ca
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        It’s definitely true with blue collar workers in Alberta, or at least it was when I still socialized (guess when I stopped)

      • SirSamuel@lemmy.world
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        I grew up blue collar and am still a tradesman. I technically live in the Midwest, but lots of Appalachian people. Of course my social circles include a vast swathe of socio-economic levels so you might still be right.

        I’ll have to watch closer to see if there’s a pattern

        I’d say your definitely correct when it comes to people with “low skill” or high turnover type jobs. If they work at dollar general or McDicks they don’t talk about work much. Also, there’s no such thing as a low skill job, and we all know who was essential and who could stay home for a few months

    • Zink@programming.dev
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      Good god, yes. This is something I had to break myself from. It is so insidious and pervasive in our culture that I don’t think most of us realize it’s even a thing.

      I’ve been to a lot of outdoor birthday parties this summer, and there are so many boring dads who I will hear strike up a conversation about what’s going on at work. I usually make sure to wander in the opposite direction.

      And I like my job! But the “talk about work” is usually less about interesting projects or creations and more about what has been going on with that individual’s status. Like yeah Kevin I want you to do well at work and enjoy it, but if it’s all the same to you I’m going to go get chased by kids with squirt guns instead of pretending I care about how your manager is impressed by your team’s metrics.

      • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 days ago

        but if it’s all the same to you I’m going to go get chased by kids with squirt guns instead of pretending I care about how your manager is impressed by your team’s metrics.

        kids sure know how to have fun. we have a lot to learn from them

        • Zink@programming.dev
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          More true than most realize.

          After getting through a lot of shit over the past several years, and having a very good & healthy summer, I am convinced that so many of our ills (metal especially) are from this mistaken assumption that more virtual and more high tech and more consumption are positives for our health rather than negatives.

          Like I said, I like my job. I have no problem explaining it to anybody who asks. But the funny thing is, nobody asks, lol. A lot times per year I get the “what do you do” question, but then they’re satisfied with that answer. Many people just volunteer their stories because they think they’re supposed (just learned behavior) to or they’re conditioned to brag about work to feel good & valid.

          But despite my decent job (software for embedded linux systems — totally on brand for Lemmy!) the absolute best time I’ve spent this summer has been getting wet and muddy in the back yard. Literally.

          By turning my hyperfocus and my time and some of my budget towards a big hobby project (upgrading my koi pond) I have set myself up with an activity that gives me:

          • Something good to look forward to
          • Results to enjoy
          • Fresh air
          • Physical exercise, a lot, including lots of lifting
          • Lots of meditative time, even though I physically look very busy
          • Exercising my instinct/desire/need to create things
          • Learning new interesting things that are relevant to the real world but outside my normal area of study/work. In high school I took a hard turn away from chemistry and towards physics. Now I am all about the nitrogen cycle, organic chemistry, oxidation/reduction potential, microorganisms, and so on, in my own way.
          • Opportunity to hang out with my kid and a bunch of our pets with room to run.
      • SirSamuel@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        It is so insidious and pervasive in our culture

        AmErIcAnS DoN’t hAvE A CuLtUrE

        lol j/k

        Yeah pervasive is right. I’d rather talk about the campaign I’m running and what my players did in our last game, but it’s taken a lot of retraining my brain to allow myself to talk about what is fun instead of what I’m “supposed” to do.

        • Zink@programming.dev
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          ‘allow myself to [do things good for me] instead of what I’m “supposed” to do’ is like a full half of what it took to figure out how to try to enjoy life.

  • dellish@lemmy.world
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    The apparent obsession with money. Some people claim to be religious but it’s clear the Almighty Dollar is their God. I know we make jokes about needing a “profit motive”, but there is a grounding in reality. It’s truly bizarre, from an outside perspective, just what lengths and depths people will sink to in order to increase profit. I’m not saying this is an American Only thing, but it’s VERY apparent in the USA just how far people will go.

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      I stopped talking politics with my FIL when I realized money was his singular driving force. He really believes, and IDK where he got this, that capitalism is itself a perfect system, and that any regulation on it breaks the system. Basically laissez faire libertarianism, wrapped in a flag and wearing a cross. Considering it’s a well understood concept, in the rest of the world (and US history) that capitalism requires regulation to work safely, it’s maddening to argue anything when we can’t agree on basics.

      All people with money = inherently good. All brown people = inherently bad. This is the driving socioeconomic philosophy among conservatives.

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        I started listening to AM radio and Fox News (their stream) to understand them. These people arent even the worst strain of propaganda consumer. But they get it from one of the two schools of austrian economics.

        But even morally bankrupt people still believe in the truth. Like no matter how capitalist someone is, the Epstein connection to Trump is not going away. The money itself is not proof that someone doesn’t diddle children

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          Maybe, but to them the money makes it okay that Trump diddled children.

          Morally bankrupt people will believe in whatever “truth” best serves their interests.

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            It depends on whether they hear about the abuse from their in-person social networks. the propaganda networks will never cover what trump has been doing to children

            While there are right wing cults that will accept pedophiles as their leaders, for the majority of those who watch propaganda channels, child rape is the only crime they won’t abide. It goes back to their foundational beliefs on abortion.

      • Ohmmy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        Milton Friedman is where he got it and it’s pretty common piece of propaganda pushed by wealthy interests.

    • r0ertel@lemmy.world
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      I was asked this while traveling in another country. I didn’t have a good answer. FWIW, I don’t own any clothing with any flags on them.

      • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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        Wearing depictions if the flag is against flag code anyway. Not a legal standard, but if someone actually cared for real, they wouldn’t use it as decoration.

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          Code is for the government. The people should be free to celebrate the freedom it’s meant to represent.

          • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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            Sure, but if they really had the respect for it they pretend to have, they wouldn’t be wearing it.

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              23 hours ago

              A piece of fabric is not worthy of respect, the values it’s meant to represent are. Disrespecting the flag against it’s own code is one of the greatest statements of that freedom

              • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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                18 hours ago

                Yes, but the people that wear the flag are generally the same ones that want to make burning it in protest illegal. The hypocrisy of wanting to force respect for the flag yet not respecting it yourself is what I am against.

  • Dr_Box@lemmy.world
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    Where I live almost everyone assumes you are a right wing Christian. They don’t even take into consideration that you’re not and if they figure out you aren’t they stop talking to you in most cases. I’ve never had anyone straight up call me an idiot but I’ve had good friends freeze up when they found out and then start avoiding me afterwards. You get looked at like a lizard in human skin.

    To add to this, I’ve heard the talk that gets passed around before they found out that I wasnt. If you are a woman they will straught up call you a witch

  • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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    Mine is that every 20 years or so, America picks a country or region to decimate, colonize, pillage and take over. They treat the people in that country like refuse. Then 20 years later they move on to the next country. Throughout all this they moralize to you and police the world and try to tell other countries to stop their wars, while they enjoy the benefits of their own invasions.

    • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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      We have a quota in america for weapons manufacturing. If noone needs weapons then make a new conflict. Its not super complicated but it is absurdly morally bankrupt.

  • nthavoc
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    3 days ago

    World Champions in sports that only the US participates in. I am not a fan of football, both the “footy” version or the “NFL” but it’s always been odd to me that winners of the Super Bowl, or equivalent event, are often declared “World Champions” of their own league in an event exclusively hosted in the US.

  • rozodru@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    for me it’s the whole “don’t tread on me” and gun culture rhetoric. Americans seem to be “don’t push me” but when they actually get pushed they’re all “uWu please more daddy” it’s odd.

    • CalipherJones@lemmy.world
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      I can explain this one. Growing up in America, you’re constantly told that you’re a patriot simply because you were born here—like just existing in the same country where Jefferson, Franklin, and Washington lived 250 years ago somehow makes you part of their legacy. It’s pushed on you so early and so hard that you don’t even question it. You just go to school, and the first thing you do is stand and pledge allegiance to the state—together, as a group. It’s ritualistic. It functions like a cult mechanism. That’s how it gets ingrained.

      Most Americans do not have an understanding that they are being tread on.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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        I don’t think being patriotic is such a bad thing. It’s not unique to the US either.

        But looking back so uncritically definitely is.

      • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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        doesn’t explain the whole gun thing though. Like it’s the one country that seems wildly out of control from gun violence all because of that one thing regularly and seriously defended in that constitution of your’s all while never arriving to the exact reason it’s in the constitution in the first place…

        Until now when that exact thing happens and then suddenly the entire constitution means fuck all and gets trashed and it’s like y’all collectively got quiet about them guns and the constitution.

        Not to say I’m like let’s get all violent and blood thirsty, just saying this explicit logic sequence about guns and violence is what makes America extra weird.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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          As I said, guns cannot protect one from Fox News.

          In other words, we are taught, from childhood, to resist classic tyranny, like a British King, or external propaganda like Nazism. That’s gun culture: people ready to tell foreign soldiers stepping foot on their home exactly how they feel, from the end of a barrel. A sort of ‘people’s militia’ is the fantasy, and part of our history.

          It’s so engrained that I think it blinds people to internal propaganda, and surpresses critical thinking. And that was kinda OK for awhile, but now it’s gotten out of hand and, well…

        • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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          It’s a myth that the second amendment was there to allow citizens to protect themselves from the government. Its actual original purpose was to allow for local militias so that we wouldn’t have to keep (and more importantly, pay for) a standing army.

        • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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          The guiding rule is selfishness. You can hold opposing viewpoints at different points in time if all you care about is what feels best for yourself at that moment. Selfishness and greed and the two flaws I think america needs to work on most. Help others more, and dont take more than you need for yourself.

        • Azal@pawb.social
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          Gonna explain the modern view. Don’t know older eras, but can go.

          First of all, on the list of things that we are taught in the US that “you’re constantly told that you’re a patriot simply because you were born here”, the Bill of Rights of the Constitution is treated as a sacred document. and like the Bible, it’s overquoted without much understanding. But most pertinent to your discussion is Amendment 2.

          A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

          Yup, that’s all our constitution has to say about guns.

          Understand, when we’re talking about the Bill of Rights, really everyone’s focus is Amendment 1, where all sides agree on it (at least for their own people and are convinced the other is trying to take it away), 3 hasn’t really come up, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 has been pushed and broken over the years… and 10 will come up thanks to our Civil War. But 2 can be the issue.

          While there’s of course a massive mix in our country, there are two predominant sides, left and right, democrat and republican, liberal and conservative, blue and red… there are arguments that these are different labels but the way our countries politics have ran in the last couple decades those terms are completely interchangeable. And this divide is HEAVILY where the gun argument exists. The democrat side of the aisle has been wanting gun control, the school shootings being the discussion but so many other reasons, the Democrats run the gambit from a minority who says “Take all the guns, they’re unnecessary in today’s society” to a different minority being completely pro-gun (they’ve been less quiet over the years) and everywhere on the spectrum in between, but usually the party lands on gun control. The Republicans on the other hand run the spectrum of “NO gun control” to guns are sacred and burning one is like burning a Bible to a US flag. Now… the “NO gun control” is also a bit of a red herring because the Republicans are REALLY happy to pass gun control bills, especially when minorities have guns… I’ve always said it’s going to be a Republican who does the whole take their guns because some of the Republicans are getting to the mood of “Take the guns” because they’re in power… when a pro-gun democrat is ignored for a more anti-gun republican by the single issue voters when it comes to guns because they’ll just parrot “Gun grabbing Democrat.” I live in a red state where this sort of thing happened. (Jesus… how many footnotes I have to put in, like here… our politics are ran by single issue voters too, that’s important). When it was said up top where “Americans seem to be “don’t push me” but when they actually get pushed they’re all “uWu please more daddy” it’s odd.” our loudest bunch is the ultra-far right which is the loudest about their gun rights, but have to circle the square that they also are the biggest bootlickers pro-police, pro-military etc while the group that’s mostly against guns are the the ones also against the expansion of enforcement power of the government. I can get into some tin-foil hat theories but I think it’s more “It’s not a bug, it’s a feature” as those that worship the guns also fetishize the military and just want to be them, just without the restraint.

          So now we’ve got the political divide when it comes to guns. Now lets get into organizations. The NRA, National Rifle Association. Originally in 1871 they were a club that was about improving marksmanship, firearm safety, and competency as well as hunting and conservation. But they are now pretty much a lobbying group for “gun rights”, they oppose any gun legislation (unless minorities are going to be affected, then they are suspiciously quiet), this really started in the 70s where they started aligning with the Conservatives where most Republicans were at the time and has only further solidified there with the NRA being a mouthpiece of the Republicans for decades. It’s to a point where if a Republican wants elected in the Midwest or the South they need the NRA seal of approval. And this organization is ALL ABOUT heavy advertising, which is free political press. Now this following part is a guess but adding on we had the Citizens United (I can go on pages long rants about this group, good to know that their leader took a hiatus in 2016 to be Trumps campaign manager for election) decision in 2010 where the group sued the FEC at the supreme court saying that corporations are people thus they couldn’t be prevented making expenditures in federal elections which infringe on their 1st amendment rights and won allowing companies to donate to political campaigns. Some of our biggest companies are the military industrial complex and it’s definitely in their interests for the open doors to guns so they can be sold to the public.

          So you can now see that it’s a weird mixture of political divide and being pushed further by the politics and economics of the country, lets get into the history and the revisionist history that’s known in the US. The being a “patriot” in the US, it is hammered in our heads about the Revolutionary War that we fought back the British and it’s super important that we keep ready to keep from another totalitarian government from taking control (you don’t need to point it out, I am well aware of the irony.) The “Don’t Tread on Me” Gadsden flag is a recall from the OG Revolutionary War (and pretty much flown by one side of the political aisle, I’ll let you guess which one, and I’ll give you a hint, it’s the one that keeps using patriotic jingoism). This is adding with the Bill of Rights being sacred, that our Revolutionary War is taught as almost a mythical struggle against good and evil. I’d honestly love to see how other countries teach their history compared to the US. Now my views are going to be colored because I was raised in the South, and since our education isn’t standardized across the country federally that can be VERY important (There is some standardization, but it’s corporate based… Texas is the largest buyer of schoolbooks so they can bully the schoolbook company to leaving out some of the things that paint them in a bad light.)

          I’ve brought up the South a few times… and here we go and my constant statement that we’re still in the middle of our Civil War from 160 years ago. Our Civil War was the South deciding to secede from the US and the followup to that. I’m going to lay it out, the Civil War WAS about slavery and yes that is a controversial statement to say this day and age, as people will say it’s about “States Right” (10th amendment) but that’s part of the “Lost Cause Myth” which propagates that slavery wasn’t important and was already on its way out but it was the abolitionists pushing too quickly, that it was about the states rights that it wasn’t the federal governments place to step in, that the slaves were happy and cheerful in their position, that the soldiers were chivalric and not traitors as secession was granted by the constitution, and that the south actually wasn’t defeated because they were the better at military and had the better generals and it was simply because the North outnumbered them. This seems like an aside, but read all of those and see how that is the sort that also would cling to their guns, hell they like to try to use the revolutionary war as a mirror… and this isn’t some little tiny myth… if you live in the south the (revisionist) confederate flag is flown all over in the south, infested in the north, and even flown over some state houses. It is not unusual to hear “The South will rise again!” ANYWHO: Lost Cause Myth… South lost, if being outnumbered was their failure then it was bad strategy. Slaves weren’t happy and anyone who believes that are fucking idiots. This wasn’t a war of northern aggression: The south shot first because Lincoln when elected much to their being upset wouldn’t give them ALL the US military bases even when he was willing to let the South otherwise govern itself. The South had made a purpose of using the federal government to bully abolitionist states to follow their laws (see fugitive slave acts). And on the “Slavery isn’t important” and “States rights” arguments, lets take a look at the CSA Constitution. Article I Sec. 8 (4) “No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.” and Article IV Sec. 2 (1) “The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.” (3) “The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.” … Yea… slavery was totally on the way out and states were allowed to govern themselves. Europe had Nazis, we have Confederates… and we’ve done a piss poor job of getting rid of them. And while the confederates were Democrat, they moved to the Republicans with the signing of the Civil Rights Act.

          • Azal@pawb.social
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            I hit the limit in that post but you’ll see that one political party has taken the single issue voter response on guns and got everyone on their side. And this is from NRA’s advertising to the guy who hunted all his life and owns one old beat up rifle “They’ll take your guns away!” to the Neo-confederates wanting to rebel against the government has created a cult that worships the gun above all else.

            So where are the anti-gun crowd on it? I used to be gun control as one of my biggest political points, but I viewed the Sandy Hook shooting as our Crossing the Rubicon, and I think many who align in my thought process did the same. When one side hammered so hard “We can’t bring politics into tragedy!” and enough of the country backed them that nothing meaningful was passed, that said as a nation we are willing to sacrifice the blood of children to oil the sacred artifact that is the gun. So honestly at this point, why keep fighting that fight? It’s probably no surprise that the political side that has some serious problems with it also is the group that has the majority of those without children. I had to keep my mouth shut with our current administration around a pro-gun leftist friend of mine who spouted the same “We gotta use the guns to resist a tyrannical government” because I knew the vast majority of the pro-gun crowd would lockstep with the tyranny… and was shocked when apparently we swapped sides on the gun debate because he said “Fucking take them all for all I care.” when he realized that there would be no resisting a tyrannical government while I’m not going to push for any further on gun restrictions, because when they pass, they won’t be well thought out protective ones, but ones to suppress one side while giving the other side full power.

      • rozodru@lemmy.world
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        ah got you. so it’s like “you’re supposed to behave this way” it’s ingrained in you as a child that this is the proper thing to do but like most kids you just have no idea why it is and you just go along with it. like being dragged to church as a kid.

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          See my reply below.

          But in short, I think its not so much a cult as an outddated fantasy. We’re taught to resist external invasions as a people’s militia; that’s what the Founding Fathers mean to people, kicking out foreign kings. It’s what the pledge allegiance meant to me, along with valuing our own diverse ideals and disunity.

          …Not to resist internal propaganda.

          Hence, that philosophy is easy to exploit internally. On the flip side, it doesn’t work when we have to look at ourselves so critically. The patriotism itself isn’t a cult, but it’s fertile ground to get one rolling when there are enemies to point to.

    • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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      Yes, that whole thing went from defending guns in schools to nothing burger in a matter of seconds.

  • Darren@sopuli.xyz
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    From my outside perspective, it’s the pledge of allegiance.

    Do you really have your kids stand up every morning and swear an oath to your flag? That’s some real cult shit.

    • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world
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      Nothing could be more American than that pledge: it was something that was first propagated by a flag company that was trying to sell more flags.

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        “In 1891, Daniel Sharp Ford, the owner of the Youth’s Companion, hired Bellamy to work with Ford’s nephew James B. Upham in the magazine’s premium department. In 1888, the Youth’s Companion had begun a campaign to sell US flags to public schools as a premium to solicit subscriptions. For Upham and Bellamy, the flag promotion was more than merely a business move; under their influence, the Youth’s Companion became a fervent supporter of the schoolhouse flag movement, which aimed to place a flag above every school in the nation. Four years later, by 1892, the magazine had sold US flags to approximately 26,000 schools. By this time the market was slowing for flags but was not yet saturated.”

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      I had a teacher in elementary school that taught us that when a flag falls on the floor, you’re supposed to kiss it.

      Yes, seriously.

      It was just part of the normal flag-worship we were taught brainwashed with.

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    2 days ago

    For me, it’s the American belief that their laws apply in other sovereign countries. Calling Julian Assange a traitor when he’s Australian and never held American citizenship for example. Demanding his extradition and strong-arming other countries when he’s not beholden to American laws nor constitution as a non-citizen, and believing that it’s their right to do so.

    And that’s from speaking with countless American who believe that this is totally justified and above-board.

  • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    And then get weirdly surprised and entitled about it when someone does do something about it.

    • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      That’s bcs you’re all very gullible to marketing/disease mongering in your hyper-consumerist ‘society’.

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        I really don’t see how hyper-consumerism has anything to do with our cultural bias against foreskin that comes from our history of sexual prudishness.

        • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          It’s an astroturfed topic, sold as desirable for esthetic reasons or as a BS health issue.
          Only a hyper-consumerist society would promote unnecessary medical procedures.
          And only gullible consumers would buy that.
          Sexual prudishness is definitely there in your backward country but that can exist with or whitout foreskins.
          Not the reason.

          • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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            22 hours ago

            That’s obviously you working backwards from your opinions on America. Nobody advertises it here nor have they in a generation or two. It’s an assumed default to the point that anti circumcision activists often have to argue with partners and sometimes circumcision is done without parental consent.

            Here’s Wikipedia on the history of the practice

            But fundamentally, this comes from the late 19th and early 20th century where it was seen as an attempt to reduce masturbation and disease. There’s no reason to believe that the doctors recommending it at the time didn’t sincerely believe it to be for the best, it was just a time in which medical science was a bit bonkers.

            • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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              22 hours ago

              So you believe that they are more influenced by some 18th century bonkers doctors than present day perceived beauty standards, peer pressure and commercialised medicine?
              And Wikipedia is not a reference BTW

              • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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                10 hours ago

                Where do you think the peer pressure and beauty standards came from? It was those wacko doctors. To the point where it became “what you do”. Modern commercialization of medicine is unrelated. It became what Americans do when their infant has a dick. Most Americans just did it. Speaking as an American who had a foreskin and who has dated multiple anti circumcision activists, I seriously can’t emphasize enough how much it’s just autopilot for everyone. There’s no marketing cabal of the medical establishment to push circumcision to make money, its just that very few of the doctors that have dicks have foreskins, very few of the patients’ fathers have them either, and if given a flat question, very few of the patients are going to leave with one. And that culture of circumcision came from an era where the main goal was to stop masturbation because it was seen as leading to mental illness.

                And Wikipedia isn’t an academic source, it’s one of the absolute best “here’s what seems to be known” sources for casual understanding because it’s curated and shows it’s sources. No encyclopedia is an acceptable source in academics. And I’m also aware that my personal experiences don’t count as a rigorous source.

                • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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                  8 hours ago

                  very few of the doctors that have dicks have foreskins, very few of the patients’ fathers have them either,

                  35.5% to 41.7% from 1979 through 2010 can in no reasonable way be called ‘very few’.
                  That is from the CDC (a real source)

                  And the concept of Wikipedia sounded good at the time but reality is different.
                  It is highly manipulable, as often happened and even their own ‘curation’ is on the highest level not transparent. And what is stated in articles is not necessarily true since they indeed show sources but they can also be shit depending on who edits the article.
                  But most people won’t even look at them, “wiki says it’s so” and that’s that. You can use it if you need to look something up about a flower but any controversial topic and certainly political stuff most certainly not.

                  Anyway, enough about this.