This is literally one of the most important lessons from Nazism. That anyone, any normal human, loving father, mother, son, can become a monster if the circumstances are right.
God, no wonder fascism is on the rise again if the lessons of it were forgotten.
Make the audience sympathise with the Nazi, maybe even identify with him. Then show his gruesome actions. All while having him remain being a wonderful father/brother/whatever.
This stark contrast, this shock might help them realize that everyone, even them, are prone to falling for fascism and cause them to think about their relationship with this most gruesome of ideologies.
It might show them that Nazism doesn’t come from the outside and occupies the country but that instead it comes from the inside, form ourselves, our neighbours and our family members, whom we never would think it possible of.
The only reason the “nazis weren’t monsters” narrative is still alive and well is because we broadly didn’t show them as humans who made stupid, horrible mistakes from the very beginning. We didn’t drive home the point that your ignorance is still deserving of the harshest of consequences. We are too afraid of offending someone or making someone feel bad for being dumb that we have allowed ignorance to have as much value as virtue.
The only reason we have people being led astray by people like Trump and Kanye and his ilk right now is because we are all so scared to show moral complexity and human vulnerabilities that we painted nazis like cartoon bad-guys. Which some were, sure, just like there are cartoon bad guys right now pushing millions of otherwise normal, if not ignorant, people to support horrible ideas.
Why are we so afraid to show that letting yourself be led into horrible ideas can still earn you a hangman’s noose or whatever the modern equivalent is?
That’s a great example, but Dune as a story was meant to subvert your ideas of heroism. It’s not a story about a common-man who gets swept away in delusions of grandeur and propaganda, the story is about someone who already know for a fact that they were a chosen savior, and how that destiny has a flip-side and how power corrupts and destroys.
I don’t really expect people to “get” that story, it’s subtle and nuanced. If you want to drive the point home about fascism and social manipulation you need nuance without the subtly.
I saw a lot of conservatives praising Dune like a real movie about real heroes and all that BS, while part of me hopes the next movie(s) really drive home Paul as a villain and I want to see the dim fans cry and scream. But I also know it won’t have an impact beyond that. Nobody is going to learn anything from Dune because it’s college-level philosophy about humanity and causality. Where most people are running at a grade-school recess level.
Good. They should make them seem as human and sympathetic as possible, show the entire slide of emotional manipulation that made otherwise normal people adopt a narrative and made them believe themselves doing right and good as they did atrocities or stood by while their leaders and peers did atrocities.
And then kill 'em anyway. Because there are consequences for being dumb, and we don’t show that enough.
That would work for people like you or me. Unfortunately, there seems to be a mass of people who have no idea how to make the distinction that surface level niceness means nothing, and mean people can be mean for good reasons.
Im pretty sure between middle school and undergrad I had to learn about the Stanford prison experiment no less than 15 times. Im surprised more people dont consider that aspect of psychology
That is the lesson we all needed to learn and ignored. They were humans, they thought they were good and doing right.
We are all equally vulnerable of falling into human biases and ignorance and doing horrific things if we allow people in power to manipulate our emotions. We need more stories about relatable, understandable humans doing absolutely fucked up shit because they went along with the narratives and then facing consequences for it.
… fuck me they’d humanize one of the Nazis
… you do realize Nazis were humans, right?
This is literally one of the most important lessons from Nazism. That anyone, any normal human, loving father, mother, son, can become a monster if the circumstances are right.
God, no wonder fascism is on the rise again if the lessons of it were forgotten.
Maybe the the wrong word. Maybe they should have said they would make one sympathetic?
I’m not sure. That could actually be a nice Idea.
Make the audience sympathise with the Nazi, maybe even identify with him. Then show his gruesome actions. All while having him remain being a wonderful father/brother/whatever.
This stark contrast, this shock might help them realize that everyone, even them, are prone to falling for fascism and cause them to think about their relationship with this most gruesome of ideologies. It might show them that Nazism doesn’t come from the outside and occupies the country but that instead it comes from the inside, form ourselves, our neighbours and our family members, whom we never would think it possible of.
Or, because the US has shit media literacy, they come away thinking “see? Nazis weren’t monsters after all” and go to their next rally.
The only reason the “nazis weren’t monsters” narrative is still alive and well is because we broadly didn’t show them as humans who made stupid, horrible mistakes from the very beginning. We didn’t drive home the point that your ignorance is still deserving of the harshest of consequences. We are too afraid of offending someone or making someone feel bad for being dumb that we have allowed ignorance to have as much value as virtue.
The only reason we have people being led astray by people like Trump and Kanye and his ilk right now is because we are all so scared to show moral complexity and human vulnerabilities that we painted nazis like cartoon bad-guys. Which some were, sure, just like there are cartoon bad guys right now pushing millions of otherwise normal, if not ignorant, people to support horrible ideas.
Why are we so afraid to show that letting yourself be led into horrible ideas can still earn you a hangman’s noose or whatever the modern equivalent is?
I get your argument, but take the recent Dune movies. Paul Atreides is meant to be a subtle villain. Most viewers simply never realised that at all.
That’s a great example, but Dune as a story was meant to subvert your ideas of heroism. It’s not a story about a common-man who gets swept away in delusions of grandeur and propaganda, the story is about someone who already know for a fact that they were a chosen savior, and how that destiny has a flip-side and how power corrupts and destroys.
I don’t really expect people to “get” that story, it’s subtle and nuanced. If you want to drive the point home about fascism and social manipulation you need nuance without the subtly.
I saw a lot of conservatives praising Dune like a real movie about real heroes and all that BS, while part of me hopes the next movie(s) really drive home Paul as a villain and I want to see the dim fans cry and scream. But I also know it won’t have an impact beyond that. Nobody is going to learn anything from Dune because it’s college-level philosophy about humanity and causality. Where most people are running at a grade-school recess level.
Man in the High Castle did this well
I’m struggling to keep watching mid season 3. Should I push through to the end?
I didn’t struggle to finish the series however the last season was better than the third season in my estimations
Worth it.
Good. They should make them seem as human and sympathetic as possible, show the entire slide of emotional manipulation that made otherwise normal people adopt a narrative and made them believe themselves doing right and good as they did atrocities or stood by while their leaders and peers did atrocities.
And then kill 'em anyway. Because there are consequences for being dumb, and we don’t show that enough.
That would work for people like you or me. Unfortunately, there seems to be a mass of people who have no idea how to make the distinction that surface level niceness means nothing, and mean people can be mean for good reasons.
Im pretty sure between middle school and undergrad I had to learn about the Stanford prison experiment no less than 15 times. Im surprised more people dont consider that aspect of psychology
The experiment is riddled with flaws and you really shouldn’t base your world views on it.
… first off wow my dude kinda aggro, but what about the lessons of language?
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/humanize
They should. And then kill 'em anyway.
That is the lesson we all needed to learn and ignored. They were humans, they thought they were good and doing right.
We are all equally vulnerable of falling into human biases and ignorance and doing horrific things if we allow people in power to manipulate our emotions. We need more stories about relatable, understandable humans doing absolutely fucked up shit because they went along with the narratives and then facing consequences for it.