Transcript
A threads post saying “There has never been another nation ever that has existed much beyond 250 years. Not a single one. America’s 250th year is 2025. The next 4 years are gonna be pretty interesting considering everything that’s already been said.” It has a reply saying “My local pub is older than your country”.
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There’s a certain irony that there are a couple of cases of “my local pub is older than your entire country” in the country in question. For example the White Horse Tavern in Newport, RI.
Egypt, anyone?
I once read that we are closer to Cleopatra’s time than Cleopatra was to the building of the pyramids. Weve got 250 years under our belts, while Egypt had thousands.
Rome lasted for 2,000 years because I consider the Byzantines as true Romans.
Depending on who you ask, some might even say that Rome still IS
ROMA INVICTA
Who did the US get independence from, buddy?
Well there’s that… but these people are free from the restraints of logic.
Wait till these people find out about Japan.
And fucking China.
I used to be in the record business, and worked for a time for a Chinese record company who was releasing indigenous folk and classical music.
Western music traces back about 1000-1200 years, while Chinese music has an unbroken written musical tradition going back several thousands of years.
China gets a bit fuzzier in between dynasties and revolutions. But there are definitely multiple post-Unification dynasties that lasted longer than 250 years.
What about San Marino?
Absolutely.
It probably has a more stable foundation too!
While the US is pretty old as a state, most societies have a direct continuation from one state to the next. It’s not like when France overthrew its monarchy they stopped being France or seeing themselves as French. So they may see their continuous history as much older than the current state, with the Kingdom of France going back to 987.
The US doesn’t have a continuous history prior to 1776 because they mostly come from Britain but they denounce their British heritage and they settled in NA but also denounce the heritage of the local peoples there. So the average American sees their entire history as starting at 1776, maybe a little bit further back to include the initial colonies and that’s about it.
Even more than that, the nations of rhe western hemisphere have an unusual history, because they have an actual recorded starting point. Many countries have a history that goes back to before recorded history, fading into myth.
But in 1492, more or less, suddenly there was this brand new land mass to settle, and the major western powers immediately started to claim it. A new population developed over many generations, for well over 200 years, with no real connections to Europe, other than political, and that distant rule began to chafe. Eventually they revolted and established a brand new nation, something that was a nearly non-existent concept to nations that had been established since before recorded time.
The European powers be like “What are you talking about, starting your own country? That’s not how it’s done.” And the Colonies be like “Yeah? Watch us.”
As an American, its wild to see things in other countries that are hundreds, or even thousands of years old, when almost nothing in America is older than about 300 years.
I’d give as start dates for France either the kingdom of Clovis or the treaty of Verdun of 843. 987 was just a dynastic switch: different ruling dynasty, but it was the same country before and after imo.
While the state of France goes back to the Franks under king Childerich in the late 400s, the modern nation of France evolved during the French revolution and the Napoleonic era.
The very idea of “nation” as a political entity build upon ethnicity instead of loyality to a ruler is younger than 250 years, so technically the claim that the US is one of the oldest, if not the oldest nation in the world is correct. I doubt though that the person OP quoted is aware of the meaning of the word nation other than a synonym for country.
It’s not like when France overthrew its monarchy they stopped being France or seeing themselves as French.
They didn’t even stop being a monarch (for very long). I think they’re on something like their Fifth Republic at this point, because they keep going back and doing Bourbon Restorations, cause some of them cannot stop being monarchists no matter how hard they try.
Monarchists are like the fucking hydra. Chop off a thousand heads and you somehow get two thousand more monarchists in their place. It’s bananas.
Well it’s the 5th republic as of the constitutional reform of 1958. And the 4th republic was founded in the aftermath of WW2 and Germany dissolving the French government. The 3rd republic was founded after the 2nd Empire collapsed during the Franco-Prussian War in 1870. The 2nd Empire was founded when Louis Napoleon Boneparte crowned himself emperor in 1852 and dissolved the 2nd republic. The 2nd republic was founded in 1848 after Napoleon (the other Napoleons uncle) was defeated at Waterloo ending the 1st Empire of Napoleon which lasted from 1804 to 1815 (with a brief holiday to Elba). The 1st republic was founded in the revolution of 1792 (the one with the heads being chopped off) until Napoleon seized power in a coup.
There has in fact only been one period of bourbon restoration in 1815. But since then and the 2nd Empire there has been little to no appetite for monarchy to return in France beyond a few crazed loonies.
I am sorry, but walking property of French feudals wasn’t part of French nation.
That aside, kingly blood from year 987 has, due to arithmetics of human procreation, gotten into most people from European countries by now. So technically a modern Frenchman can associate with a king of France from 1000 years ago, if they want that. Just doesn’t make much sense.
XIX century romanticism is the problem. Everyone has learned of their nation’s long and mythologized history because of that. Everyone believes that, which to an extent makes that real. Sibelius’ music, Goethe’s poetry, Vasnetsov’s paintings, whatever. Strong aesthetic and symbolic. While German national-socialists kinda made too much of this distasteful, they’ve also made new things that came before them seem old and good. And by comparison more real.
If we do direct continuations, the US can do that with England.
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You guys think it’s bad reading all this online?
Try living here…
I bet outside of the US they have a very different perspective of what it’s like living here right now.
Specifically, the fact that things like some of our largest protests ever aren’t even being covered inside the states. There are huge public displays thousands and thousands of people being completely ignored by media. I wonder what else we’re not being allowed to see here.
I’ve been saying this right from the beginning, but this is a war on information.
Felon 45 and the right are going to do everything they possibly can to make sure word doesn’t get out
Yea there are a few buildings in my area that have been there for more than 250 years.
This isn’t a facepalm. As any red-blooded American knows, the only country worth mentioning is America. Since all countries of note were founded after America, this OP is correct.
So, Ireland is of note, but England isn’t?
I grieve for the death of sarcasm.
Culturally, Ireland is of great importance to the US. From the humble shamrock shake, all the way up to Lucky Charms, we owe a lot of debt to Ireland.
Meanwhile, we’ll never forgive England for the Boston Tea Party. Look at how few Americans drink tea to this day and you’ll see the level of contempt.
Remember the time we stumbled on an old local church with an American coworker. Yes dude, that thing was over 500 years old when Columbus discovered your continent, allegedly.
Columbus didn’t even travel to north america, he went to middle- and south america :D
Everything north of the Darien Gap is considered NA.
TIL Central America is considered a sub-region of North America
As a continent, yes
And he didn’t discover shit. He was a bloody wanker and we should all just forget about him
And he wasn’t just an asshole by modern standards, but by the standards of his own time as well!
France, Switzerland, england, bavaria, brandenburg, vatican, spain, netherlands, denmark, sweden, portugal
I could go on and on
Americans have been brought up on national exceptionalism in school. This is what they’ve been told since they were children. The “logic” being that other countries have reformed their governments once in a while for different reasons while the U.S haven’t. Sweden for example was according to american logic founded in 1994.
A ha ha ha ha Sweden is fouded in 1994 🤣😂 ouch my stomach hurts! What the hell 😁 I mean at least make it 1894 or something.
I don’t remember anything special in 94?? Maybe we got a borglig regering? But with that logic the USA is only some months old lol.
I’ll bet not 1 American in 100 know that there was a time when Sweden was a dominant superpower in Europe.
Sweden joined the EU on Jan 1st of 1995 requiring som changes in governance (just formalities with no real impact). Google even listed Sweden as being founded in 94 for at least a decade. I used to show that to people as an example of why they shouldn’t trust information from the internet blindly.
Another metric Americans and no one else use for age of countries is last time the constitution (grundlag) was changed. This would make Sweden born in 1974. Nevermind that the U.S has made several “addendums” to their constitution efter the fact. They don’t consider that a change.
Oh I can almost see the logic - It’s like an append-only log, you only add to it, the original text is still original
Except amendments can override existing parts, so in reality, the US was born May 7th 1992 and judging by its age and personality, was likely a Vine star for a while.
We got a name for that kind of logic from where I come from.
It translates roughly to “stupid”.
vatican
I’ll spot you at least a few of these. But the Vatican was incorporated in 1929 precisely because they needed to delineate between the Italian city of Rome and the Bishopry of the Catholic Church. Italy wasn’t a fully unified country until about a decade earlier.
It was a fully unified country way before 1929, unless you are counting Alto Adige and Trieste as conditio sine qua non to have a fully unified Italy, which I wouldn’t.
As for the Vatican situation, the Italian kingdom completely conquered and annexed the papal state in 1870 (Breccia di Porta Pia).
In 1929 the Pope formed an alliance with Mussolini to get a state in exchange for the approval of the fascist government from the Church (and other stuff, but that’s the gist of it)
San Marino
Arguably, I believe America is the oldest constitutional nation.
San Marino had a constitution in 1600, was a republic a lot longer than that, and it’s still an independent republic. So it’s very arguable
TIL that is even a country
It’s a small one, but if you’re ever in Italy, it might warrant a visit (depending on time and route). The medieval old town built on top of mount Titan is really beautiful and the view from the walls is breathtaking.
Your American education is showing.
Even british constitutionalism is older
“Even”?
well that ended pretty recently unfortunately
That would be San Marino.
most other countries still have their constitution though
Anything outside of Europe?
Japan, tibet, mongolia, iran, ethiopia, mali, kongo, thailand
I feel this isn’t quite the same though. When a country has a complete change in politics/ruling of the nation, then it really isn’t the same country anymore. (French Revolution ending in 1799 shouldn’t be still considered the same country, even though the name is the same. England still allowed the royal family to have power over the people and politics until 1957 so wasn’t a “full” democracy, Bavaria I became part of Germany in 1949, etc…) The US has for its entire time listed has always been an elected government that followed the constitution, meaning it’s been the same country.
You are basing that on the Constitution, which has changed considerably over America’s history.
Total rubbish. In the 1700s only landowners could vote. Truly universal suffrage wasn’t enshrined until 1965, so by your reckoning America is only 60 years old.
Changes of government don’t mean an entirely new country, there’s continuity like how France refers to the 1st republic or the current 5th republic. It’s still France.
Exactly. By that logic, every time a new political party takes over, America is a new country.
Although, with MAGA taking power, and completely throwing out the Constitution, the case can be made that we have become a new country.
Changes of government don’t mean an entirely new country…
Yeah, it kinda does. The words "Country’ and “Nation” aren’t full synonyms even though people tend to use them interchangeably. A a Country is a political entity while a Nation is focused on the collective identity and shared values of its people.
In short the Nation of France is old while the Country of France is much younger.
The definitions honestly feel backward to me but I’m not the person in charge of these things.
That’s just semantics, not any practical distinction.
Do you feel there is no “practical distinction” between 1730 France and 1930 France?
It’s like saying there’s no practical distinction between Red and Scarlet. The fact that they are different is why there are separate words. Its the same with Country and Nation.
Pointless argument. Is there no difference between the US in 1776 and now? Every country is changing constantly. Because they’re full of people.
So you mean the usa never modernise? Checks out…
You’re talking about “a country”, the guy in the OP talks about “a nation”. Pretty vast difference between the two.
You’re entirely right but Bavaria became a part of Germany in 1871.
Sorry about that, I just had done a quick check on Wikipedia which declared (and I quickly accepted):
joined the Prussian-led German Empire in 1871 while retaining its title of kingdom, and finally became a state of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1949.
Man, imagine being so fucking dense you literally ignore the nation that created yours, which is still around. Inglun? Wazzat?
About 15 years ago, I got to go on a road trip across the states. 6 weeks, driving from east coast to west coast.
On more than one occasion, when we were inevitably asked where we were from and dutifully replied “England.”, we were met with utterly blank stares.
“Uhhhhhhhh, Engerland?” “You mean New England? Never met anyone from there before…”
“No, England. Old England. The original England, capital city, London. That England.”
“London? That’s just north of here… I don’t get it.”
I swear, the sheer ignorance and lack of basic understanding of the geography of our world was fucking staggering in some places. Not always the armpit of nowhere “towns” either.
I got asked what state New Zealand was in. I felt my American tour had been worth it at that point.
I’m not saying this didn’t happen. But as an American myself, I find this bizarre. I was born and raised in Texas, and I can’t recall ever meeting someone who didn’t know what England is. Though I guess if you are visiting from England, the topic is more likely to come up.
I’m also convinced that every country has absolute morons within their populations. Our American morons are just louder than most.
Pfffft. Texas was one of the worst.
Despite being the oldest of the group at 25, not one, but two different restaurants in Texas refused me alcohol on the basis they thought both my British Driving Licence (a biometric photo-ID) and my Passport were fake as they’d never heard of Britain.
That and the entire fucking state stinks of oil. You can smell it before you cross the state line, and the smell fades as you leave, it’s bizarre.
There are some really dense people, who actively avoid learning anything at all.
I guarantee you could find American citizens who have never heard of Donald Trump.
I have had exactly the same experience. “Where’s England?”… “Errrrmmm, Europe…?”
You know the language you’re speaking? It’s from there.
I wonder what i would get if i say my region
The first part is believable, you are talking straight out of your ass for the second. No one, not even the most inbred, hillbilly, hicks, would think “USA” when they hear “London”.
And before anyone starts with “well there are lots of stupid people in the world, I can see this happening” no you fucking can’t. Because NO ONE would associate London with the US rather than the UK.
There are people in the US for whom the whole world is whatever region they’re currently living in. Sounds like they encountered some of those.
You seriously overestimate your countrymen. We were just about to cross the Canadian border, if that helps you wrap your head around it. London, Ontario was some ways north. We actually went through it for the laughs, after the interaction with the moron. 💛
I guess youve never been to Kentucky.
There’s even a London there.
We went to Kentucky. A nice fella who we played EVE Online with back then invited us to swing by for BBQ and Bourbon.
Didn’t really hang about otherwise though so can’t comment on the average local’s temperament. We had a lot of ground to cover :)
Or Oklahoma 💀💀💀
Holy fuck. I can’t tell if they are a troll or not. Reading that is infuriatingly stupid. No wonder America is in the shemozzle it is now, this idiocy and lack of critical thinking is far too common over there!
That’s by design. The Republican Party has actively, deliberately suppressed the teaching of Critical Thinking in schools.
Pleak times for being a troll. Nobody understands anymore if you are only dumb or provoking.
I’ve also heard the right say that America is the best and youngest country. Like they seriously think they are the most recent country to be formed.
They also think that America is #1 despite being the “youngest” makes them even extra good.
Americans don’t have the mental capacity to look beyond their borders.
Unless they’re looking to conquer their closest (ex) ally, of course.
Only a few do, usually CEOs looking to exploit more people
