Lubbock County, Texas, joins a group of other rural Texas counties that have voted to ban women from using their roads to seek abortions.
This comes after six cities and counties in Texas have passed abortion-related bans, out of nine that have considered them. However, this ordinance makes Lubbock the biggest jurisdiction yet to pass restrictions on abortion-related transportation.
During Monday’s meeting, the Lubbock County Commissioners Court passed an ordinance banning abortion, abortion-inducing drugs and travel for abortion in the unincorporated areas of Lubbock County, declaring Lubbock County a “Sanctuary County for the Unborn.”
The ordinance is part of a continued strategy by conservative activists to further restrict abortion since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade as the ordinances are meant to bolster Texas’ existing abortion ban, which allows private citizens to sue anyone who provides or “aids or abets” an abortion after six weeks of pregnancy.
The ordinance, which was introduced to the court last Wednesday, was passed by a vote of 3-0 with commissioners Terence Kovar, Jason Corley and Jordan Rackler, all Republicans, voting to pass the legislation while County Judge Curtis Parrish, Republican, and Commissioner Gilbert Flores, Democrat, abstained from the vote.
Everything else aside, that’s about as clear a violation of the Commerce Clause as you can get.
The inability of states to regulate interstate commerce was settled by the courts in 1824.
The same laws that allows firearms to be shipped through states where they’re illegal protects abortion-seekers on Texas roads
was settled by the courts in 1824.
Nothing is “settled” with the current Supreme Court.
Commerce Clause is about as settled as it can get, though. Especially with a Court so enamoured with Founders Intent. Gibbons v Ogden is probably only behind Marbury v Madison in sacred status to this Court.
It’s cute that you still have faith in conservatives doing anything consistently
Overturning Gibbons would do more harm to the conservative cause than good.
The entire West Coast is liberal-controlled states. They could legally tax or simply cut off any goods or services bound for conservative states originating from or passing through their states.
All to defend a law that’s essentially unenforceable from a practical standpoint.
Again, you’re assuming conservatives have any sort of consistency or logic. They’ll just make up some BS that keeps things moving the way they want.
Even they have limits they won’t pass because it would blow everything up.
I remember when I was this naive
“Sorry, but after the gutting of Roe, stare decisis only applies to things conservatives and/or billionaire overlords approve of” – SCOTUS
Conservatives and billionaires absolutely approve of the Commerce Clause.
Overturning Gibbons would allow California to tax all internet traffic coming through LA from the rest of the world, or allow liberal states to seize high-capacity magazines being shipped across state lines.
Imagine Facebook having to pay import/export taxes every time someone accessed their account.
It would be the most impactful SCOTUS decision of all time, and would be absolutely ruinous to the business interests of the wealthy.
Stare decisis has only ever applied to things the justices approve of. It’s just that this may be the most fucked up group we’ve ever had. If all the former judges were also lovers of stare decisis, most of our civil rights would not be here, because many of those have been when previous judgements were overturned. Just think about the segregation of schools. Was Brown v The Board of Education not a reversal of Plessy v Ferguson?
The concept has always been about a bullshit homage that lawyers and judges dance around.
SCOTUS allowed the abortion bounty law SB8 to stand before Roe was overturned. It was clearly unconstitutional. So, they’re just expanding on it to the next logical steps.
Something something it’s not commerce because reasons.
Nevermind that the Commerce Clause has been cited to give the federal government authority to prohibit activities that are neither commerce nor inter-state, such as growing cannabis for personal use on your own property.
Schroedinger’s commerce. It’s commerce only when it’s convenient for prohibitionists.
The federal government doesn’t outlaw abortion, so they can’t use the Commerce Clause to enforce abortion restrictions enacted by the states.
However, the issues you cite with them being bullies with the commerce clause are centered on authority granted through Gibbons.
Gibbons was specifically about states trying to enforce laws (specifically state-granted steamboat monopolies) within their borders that had a direct impact on commerce within another state. The Supreme Court declared that a violation of the commerce clause because only the Federal Government can regulate interstate commerce.
Texas passing laws prohibiting travel to another state to seek abortions (which are federally legal) could only be allowed by SCOTUS by overturning Gibbons, which would be absolutely devastating.
That would be by far the most-impactful reversal in the Court’s history, and it can’t be overstated how much of a grenade it would be. Everybody would lose, and the GOP’s owners more than anyone else.
If SCOTUS were insistent (and consistent) that only the federal government had the power to regulate interstate commerce, yet this Texas jurisdiction is trying to do just that, wouldn’t that logically be in violation of the Commerce Clause and SCOTUS would have to strike down?
I was arguing that SCOTUS isn’t consistent on this, but pretend they were.
They’d have trouble ignoring this one. This is isn’t tangentially related to interstate commerce.
The law is explicitly about preventing people from passing through a territory to engage in legal commerce in another state. Violation of the Commerce Clause isn’t a byproduct of the law - it’s the sole intent.
IANAL: how exactly is this going to get overturned? The courts have already gotten rid of offender observer standing so the only way would be if this is actually enforced at which point the Supreme Court could simply allow the appeals court ruling stand.
Why does Texas hate freedom so much?
Texans are some of the most delusional people on the planet.
For some reason, even the democrats there think it’s better than states like Florida. It isn’t.
The only state that is objectively worse than Texas is Louisiana, and that’s saying something.
You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about since you skipped Mississippi, land of waffle House and sadness.
Nah. I skipped Mississippi on purpose. Cheap housing, decent geography, and that’s about it.
More than Texas can say, though.
Hmmm
It’s bad when Oklahoma has advantages over texas.
Yep. It’s that bad.
Idk, Florida is prettttty bad
Mississippi is also a strong contender
At least Mississippi doesn’t pretend to be god’s gift to humanity and the greatest nation to ever exist. Texas is high as shit on the smell of its own farts.
That is a fair point.
At least Mississippi only fought one war for slavery.
I agree, but I’d rather live in Mississippi than Texas.
At least they have cheap housing.
Texas has cheap housing outside of the cities. It’s what lets idiots brag about “cheaper cost of living,” ignoring that it’s because the state is less urbanized.
Really? What would you consider ‘cheap housing’?
Texas has some pretty cheap housing. A friend just bought a 3000 sqft single outside of Austin for ~300k.
I bought a 2000 sqft single detached in my city for $1.2mil so… Texas definitely wins on that front. But then you have to live in Texas =/.
That’s not cheap at all compared to Mississippi, lol.
Doesn’t really seem like it? A quick lookup of single detached prices in and around Jackson seems to suggest that the prices range from 600-700k with some outliers breaking $1mil+.
Are you talking about the middle of butt fuck nowhere, because then you’re comparing apples to oranges. Middle of nowhere Texas is also dirt cheap but I specified Austin.
Housing is way cheaper in rural Mississippi than rural Texas.
You may be able to find similarly priced houses in Texas, but they will often be dilapidated compared to what you’ll find in Mississippi.
You seem like the kind of person who thinks life outside of major cities doesn’t matter, so I don’t expect you to care about the price of homes outside of major cities.
Their property taxes also suck more than people know but there’s no denying California real estate prices suck.
Alabama is trying, but there not quite at Texas’s level yet.
For real, at least everything in FL is cheap af.
Not anymore. Rent has almost doubled where I’m at and South Florida seems to be worse
Not the housing.
Idk, Florida is prettttty bad
Not nearly as bad as Texas. They have nice beaches, and decent cities.
Shame about the whole swamp and going into the water thing, but it’s still a pretty nice place to be. And of course their politics suck, mostly driven by old people, rich people, and idiots who succumb to them at their own expense.
Cool… driving whilst pregnant is the latest thing to fear US police over then. Wait until the first pregnant woman is shot as part of a routine traffic stop checking for abortion plans.
Yeah but she’s be black, or poor or queer so it’s okay
The officer had to save the life of the fetus. (by shooting the person keeping it alive)
Don’t make idiotic comments on shit you don’t understand. You’re clearly not an American, so don’t pretend you have a clue.
This guy in other threads gives his opinions on Israel and Canada and then thinks only Americans can give opinions on America.
and then thinks only Americans can give opinions on America
Quote where I said that asshole. If your pathetic profile snooping was any good, you’d know I lived in Canada for years, nice try.
As a Canadian, I’m glad you left
Stop sending us these people please
Get some guns and shoot em for all I care mate.
As an American, so am I! Your country is shit.
Kinda looking like you’re shit tbh. Maybe go back to reddit, seems more in your wheelhouse.
In would, but I’m here to get away from types like you
Cope
God damn will you go back to crying at people about linux? The adults are having a conversation.
Hey… Leave Linux out of this. It didn’t do anything wrong!
Nope, and I use it myself. But dude’s post history is just reams of him bitching at people about this or that OS/distro. I’m just picturing someome always yelling at his screen, and who angry-types a keyboard into the trash every three months.
No, feel free to quoute my “crying about Linux” pathetic profile sniffer.
They clearly know more than you do. I’m actually from Texas and it’s fucking spot on
Oh? What is that “they know” since nothing specific was addressed other than generic talking point fears from the viewpoint of a European. Unlike them, I’ve lived in TX. Can’t wait to hear this…
How tf would they even enforce this?
“Are you traveling to get an abortion?” “No, I’m going to visit family”
How would they prove otherwise? Is there something I’m missing?
The correct answer is “I don’t want to talk about my day.”
" Am I being detained or am I free to go?" If detained “then you shut the fuck up!”
It’s even better if you say “I invoke my fifth amendment right to stay silent” and then shut the fuck up.
Every day is Shut The Fuck Up Friday
Three people got busted in a raid. Third guy shut the fuck up, and the DA did not prosecute. They can’t prove what you’re doing there.
You’re missing the right to privacy in your phone. Make sure you didn’t put the clinic into Google maps or make a call to them ahead of time. Governmental AI is on the way and it will be steered by the same people making these rules.
LEAs have been shown to actively track women who use search engines or messaging services to seek information about abortion services. There’s a non-zero chance that women who they suspect, and their friends and family, are tagged in their system when they search the plates of someone passing by.
It’s not about lying to cops, particularly if they can already prove you were seeking those services in the first place. At that point they’ll arrest you with probable cause.
They already use that kind of system with drug dealers. If they suspect you sell drugs, they will tag your name and plate and find a reason to pull you over if they spot you. Why would they hesitate to track women like that?
Arrest on suspicion?
It goes like this:
We know you’re traveling to get an abortion, we have your messages and search history. It is illegal to use this highway for that purpose. You are under arrest.
Whether they are correct in issuing an arrest doesn’t matter for them because they have qualified immunity. They let the courts sort it out.
I was just having this conversation the other day. The person was absolutely confounded how in the world this law would be enforced. I essentially said that it doesn’t matter. Cops will stop you for whatever, arrest you for whatever, send you to jail for whatever, doesn’t matter. If they’re wrong, oh well, that’s the court’s job.
It basically gives them an excuse to detain any woman they want, which is the purpose.
Easy, women shouldn’t be allowed to use highways period. Then they won’t be able to drive to abortions.
Fuck it, women shouldn’t be allowed to drive. Long live the United States of Saudi Arabia!
These types of laws tend to rely on someone close to the pregnant person calling the cops, usually family. These communities passing these laws are full of people who would eagerly jail their children for getting an abortion.
No no, not their children. Their child’s abortion is necessary. Their child has so much potential and Jesus will forgive them for it.
You childs abortion? You’re a heathen that will burn in hell for baby murder.
They cannot because they do not have jurisdiction at all. You can’t prosecute someone for doing something legal in another area.
There’s two things that apply in this situation. The first is that like several other states, they’re not making getting an abortion in another state illegal, they’re making traveling on their infrastructure for the purposes of obtaining an abortion in another state illegal. Is that an unconstitutional restriction on interstate commerce? Who the fuck knows anymore? I don’t think it will hold, but I didn’t expect Justice Thomas to rise like Cthulhu from his eternal and well grifted slumber to kill Roe, so I’m not offering an opinion on that.
The second way, and this is also worrying me, is that while they can’t make flying to California to smoke pot illegal, they can make having pot in your system when you land back in Texas illegal. If they can’t make having an abortion in CA illegal, can they still use medical records to track that your pregnancy was terminated out of state, and prosecute you on a charge after returning to the state with a terminated pregnancy?
To be honest, I think that will fail too, but I’m sure it’ll land on the books someplace.
I’m also sure that these will all become national level laws because people still think politics is a team sport, and if it does not terrify you that the worst president in the history of the US and with openly fascist statements of taking full control and going after his enemies is running neck and neck with just a regular pre-2000s style politician, you’re either not paying attention or you’re privileged as all fuck.
This is my take as well. I hope folks figure it out and that laws like these get wiped out.
This is why I as a Canadian can’t fathom why Americans seem to think they have more freedom than I do somehow. To me the whole “States Rights” debacle essentially gives Americans two countries worth of laws that they are bound by instead of one.
The fact the US also enforces it’s laws on non-citizens for things done outside it’s country legally gives the whole thing the sense of the US being drunk on it’s own sovereignty. Like it’s legal to smoke pot here but if you are tricked into mentioning at a US boarder crossing that you EVER smoked weed on Canadian soil even if it was in the distant past you risk being forever barred from entry into the US.
And to be clear this is not their citizens doing things in their own country that are not illegal by the measure of that country’s law. From what I understand there isn’t much of an appeal process either because once it’s done our citizenry suddenly goes into category “not my monkey not my circus”.
The US is very very fond of restriction of freedoms from an outsider perspective.
The big issue is that it’s not law enforcement that enforce this, it’s everyday people - and those people are given immunity by this law.
They could just have checkpoints on the exit roads on the state. There are a lot of things Texas republicans are doing with police, namely allowing them to be border patrol agents with authority to deport people. This, along with precedent being pushed that police can find probable cause after the fact that you’re arrested, police can just arrest first because they saw a women “who looked pregnant.” I foresee women becoming second class citizens really soon in red states, and its really troubling.
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I’m sorry but this makes Texas less than a third world country. This is just backwards and medieval.
Pregnancy check road blocks sure sound fun
I am just wondering: how?
Women who are a month pregnant don’t show they are. Are they really going to ask every women to piss on a stick?
they can’t but they want to. They will also scream libertarianism until they pop a blood vessel but will want the government to fund it.
Yes, and then rape the pretty ones. Murder the Black ones.
That’s literally their plan.
And then they scream “freedom” and wave flags like it means something.
The Party of Small Government, Ladies and Gentlemen. The most grotesque joke since The Aristocrats.
Who was the comedian that said “The party of government so small you can shove it up your vagina” or something to that effect.
This won’t be directly enforced. It will be used to add more punishment to those caught trying to get an abortion.
Not just those getting an abortion, but anyone helping them. It’s designed to isolate pregnant women so that they have no one to turn to if they need help.
Very true
Or more worryingly, used as an excuse by cops to stop any woman they want whenever they want on suspicion they’re trying to get an abortion.
And then they can force women to take pregnancy tests on the spot, which will require stripping for giving urine samples, giving police plausible deniability to rape whoever they want.
Mark my words, it WILL happen.
Cops are going to pull over women and rape them, getting them pregnant where they will be forced to carry out the pregnancy.
Cops have raped women before in Texas, this guarantees it’ll happen again.
It will, but being pregnant is the not same as wanting to get an abortion. I wonder how they’ll prove that.
this is the dumbest antifreedom thing I’ve seen in months. just how can anyone think this is a good idea.
I bet the cookers who dreamt up this scheme were against covid lockdowns aswell
just how can anyone think this is a good idea.
Oh, that’s an easy one! Fascists.
Cookers?
cooked idiots who fall for all manner of extremist stuff online. antivax movement in a nutshell
They just care that it sounds good to pro-life voters and donors who haven’t thought too hard about it.
How the fuck do you even enforce this?
The ordinance is enforceable through the private enforcement mechanism which has proven its success in both the Lubbock City Ordinance and the Texas Heartbeat Act. This is how the ordinance is enforced,
So: snitching.
And they’re damn slick about it, too. They start by asking a woman who they think might be pregnant how far along they are, if they have a name picked out, all innocent and normal questions to ask an expecting mother, right? Like, they do it at rest stops and gas stations. And because the woman seeking an abortion isn’t being questioned by someone who outwardly looks like a cop, they let their guard down. So, basically if you’re a pregnant woman in Texas and you are seeking to leave the state for an abortion, trust NOBODY. Keep your guard up, don’t answer any questions, and don’t stop anywhere unless absolutely necessary.
So close… Just don’t answer questions in Texas. Regardless of your gender, natal status, sexual orientation, or religious beliefs, someone is trying to fuck you with something. Even being a cisgender heterosexual white male is not safe if your lacking a confederate flag or maga hat.
In all seriousness, the only correct response to someone in Texas randomly asking a woman questions about a pregnancy is very appalled and indignant “No I’m not doing insert activity here. I’m not pregnant. Are you calling me fat?”
Like I said, they’re slick about it. They hit ya with that folksy charm and try to get you gabbin about your business so they can later call someone and say “This person ain’t like us! Let’s git em!”
Yeah, I wonder how they would react if you responded to the “names” line with “Oh, if it’s a boy we were thinking either Azezal or Baphomet, and for a girl we absolutely have to use Lilith. It is always prudent to have a backup so maybe Lamia? What do you think?”
By stopping all cars with pregnant women and telling them they aren’t allowed to leave the county. I imagine that’s what they might end up doing.
I’d say that’d wind up in front of the Supreme Court really fucking quickly…
Except, I think that’s what they’re counting on…
They’re also counting on people without means not being able to take it to court to begin with. A quick look at a map tells me there’s an airport in Lubbock county, I bet there hasn’t been a law introduced to keep pregnant women off of an airplane…
Ah, so its only no abortion for the poor then.
As expected. Rules are for the poors.
Are you surprised?
No, they do it through the same mechanism that made the Texas Heartbeat Bill possible. Private reporting and investigation, AKA snitching. Remember in Texas you can get $10k for reporting a woman seeking an abortion.
Selectively
You beat me to it.
Texas is where freedom goes to die
Brain Cheney tells me that we should give them the one freedom they truly want, and un-annex them.
But that, of course, is needlessly cruel and would only punish innocent folks trying to survive in what is already a hellscape.
I’d take refugee status in the US if it meant Texas (and Florida) were annexed out of the US.
Though, that’d suck for any future generations who are born with half a brain.
This sounds incredibly illegal? Where the fuck is the law?
Probably blocking the road
Ha
Unfortunately, the legal precedent that protected a woman’s right to get an abortion was overturned by the SCOTUS and now we’ve got a complete mish-mash of state and local laws being created to test the boundaries of what they can do.
It’s almost like using precedents instead of just writing the fucking laws unambiguously is an inherently broken concept.
I would say the 14th Amendment is pretty unambiguous on abortion, just as the Commerce Clause is 100% unambiguous on the unconstitutionality of these travel laws. The problem is that it’s not specific, which is the opening used by this adversarial SCOTUS.
Even if you had 100 pages listing specifics for a Constitutional Amendment, you’d STILL miss obvious ones. The protection from Cruel and Unusual punishment, for example. It should be more unambiguous by including a list of 100 things the authors considered cruel, 100 things the authors considered unusual, and then a stipulation that they meant “if any of those 200 items is true”. And even then, those Constitutional authors didn’t write “Keelhauling” in the list, so that must be fine!
But summarizing… You can’t have a large over-arcing right that stands the test of time and dishonest lawmakers without it being general and requiring some interpretation. If only we could solve for dishonest SCOTUS justices.
Ultimately, the only check or balance that actually works is the people. No system of laws will protect you from a broken culture. If millions of Americans didn’t support this kind of behaviour then the politicians writing these laws would never have won their elections, but since they do, they’ll find whatever justification they need to to impose their ideology.
Sure, but I’m replying to the person whose opinion is that laws aren’t worded correctly. They’re worded fine. There’s just bad actors involved.
Without bad actors, you don’t need to worry about wording laws more specifically. With bad actors, it doesn’t matter if you have a “Abortions cannot be banned” amendment.
I actually don’t think Dobbs affected this that much. Texas was trying to circumvent Roe before Dobbs, anyway, not using criminal prosecution but by allowing people to be sued in civil court for abortion.
Sure, and they found lots of subtle ways to make abortions inconvenient and in some cases unavailable. But now that they can make them outright illegal, they’re passing laws to criminalize everyone and everything involved.
The ordinance in this Texas case doesn’t make anything criminal, it uses the same civil liability workaround that Texas was using at the state level before Dobbs.
Full faith and credit only works in one direction; towards Texas.
The bigots dictate the law now and everyone lets them because no one wants to overthrow those evil local governments, not even legally through elections.
Texan Taliban impose driving ban
Well, they are ok with Tex-Mex, so Tex-Queida is probably ok. Same with Tex-ria law, obviously.
Texiban?
No, that is what they are trying to do with abortions.
Also Texas: “Why are we having so much trouble recruiting OB-gyns? Why do we have to close so many rural obstetrics departments?”
Idk, I get the feeling that they want OB/GYNs to leave. I think they want women to suffer and die in childbirth, just as God intended.
We should probably also have them start wearing masks and robes over their faces/bodies too, to prevent them from having unwanted pregnancies. Actually, just don’t even give driver’s licenses to women in the first place, since they should always be getting escorted by their fathers or husbands in the first place, they really shouldn’t even be allowed to drive. And if we wanted to reduce unemployment, we could just require all these women in the workplace to go back to being stay-at-home moms, like God intended, freeing up all those jobs for hard-working American men to work at. Send me money if you agree.
Oh, oh. Don’t forget that women don’t need to bother with the whole pesky voting thing. Their brains aren’t built for it. The 19th amendment was a mistake.
Y’all-Qaeda
Wow you should run as governor. I should you give you a suggestion between Florida or Texas.
The Handmaid’s Tale is a Christofascist wet dream.
Doesn’t this run afoul of the commerce clause?
A random ass County can’t ban travel on any roads or highway for any reason, right? That’s strictly the job of congress.
Also I’d like to add:
How about this worthless board look into why there is so much crime in the county before Talibaning travel for women?
Because Lubbock is a meth-infested shithole in the middle of nowhere. The only thing to do there is drugs, alcohol, rape, and domestic violence.
Truly a “Sanctuary County for the Unborn.”
My guess is this is what will doom this law, specifically since they’re also looking at drugs which are certainly commodities from out of state.
It might also be a prior restraint case depending on if traveling to a women’s healthcare provider is protected expression.
Like, the problem for the county here is trying to stop people from doing something they can’t prove they’re actually going to do.
They might be able to plus up other charges based on using county property in the commission of some other “crime” (gigantic air quotes). Sort of like getting extra charges due to using the USPS to commit a crime.
it may be that they’re fully cognizant of this but this is a “pandering to the base” move they know will get shot down, then they just have to point at DC and say ‘hey, we tried, praise jaysus’
All they have is performative politics.
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The big stick that the federal government has in this case (regarding highway travel) is funding. Considering where funding bills typically start, I don’t think we can blame the president for this one.
