Boy, other instances sure think about us a lot.
I don’t blame them. I can’t stop thinking about y’all
Libertarian Socialism is when you’re too racist to accept that it’s not just white people that can do socialism, the only good socialism is the socialism in my head and not the ones that real people had to actually pull off
I think these folks should actually visit China, read it’s history, and not be such clear white chauvanists
Or if not visit China, at least get on XHS.
communism without liberal democracy is just slavery!!1!
China’s government has electoral systems and broad popular approval, you say? You fool! That just shows how brainwashed they are! It’s only a real popular mandate when everyone is chronically unsatisfied! Also democracies can only function when modeled after English speaking countries, for reasons
liberalcapitalist democracyYes yes
and all that I kno
The way libs have built up this goofy ass site in their heads to make it seem like Lemmy’s boogeyman will never stop being funny. Not only do the lengths they go to so they can avoid us show that they can’t meaningfully defend their ideology from any scrutiny, but also that they’re too fucking lazy and insecure to even bother trying
And when they bother trying they’re immediately exposed. Like the dumbass yesterday who didn’t know tiananmen tank man was a video and not just a single picture
Latin, Esperanto, Ukrainian
On the one hand, there’s nothing wrong with learning any of these languages: I’m learning Esperanto right now, Stalin supposedly learned Esperanto as well; and I also did Ukrainian for two weeks on Duolingo when I was 14; and then Latin is a very interesting and historically significant language, right?
On the other hand, though, in the context of this person being an “anti-tankie” weirdo, and putting the Vatican flag after Latin… It isn’t good vibes, is it? It makes one wonder what motivations this person might have for choosing these languages in particular.
Fuck, Ukrainian is going to be the new German?
I dunno, I guess that depends on what it means to be the “new German”, but I can at the very least say that I’ve had enough experience with people apparently learning Ukrainian specifically and solely because they’re “slobber ya cranium” type liberals, to be a little wary of the phenomenon.
I’m meaning tendency of cryptofascists to obsess over German language to the point that when I said I’m learning German, people sometimes assumed me to be far-right. But I just liked Brecht (and
).I have to wonder if the vibes of saying you’re learning German vary a lot by region.
on Duolingo when I was 14
Seeing something like this makes me feel ancient, and I’m not even old lol. Unless you were one of the early users that used Duolingo back in 2012 or something, then I’d feel less ancient.
This was in like the mid-2010s.
“NO, compromise is NOT acceptable, we MUST implement socialism NOW; otherwise you’re all fascists and completely identical” - Tankies when democracy
Compromise isn’t only acceptable, it’s necessary. To deny this is Ultraleft dogmatism. Moreover, one of the first things AES states do is democratize the economy, from the Soviet system in the USSR to the New Democracy of the PRC. The “compromise,” I assume, is allowing liberal and fascist parties to compete, in which case PJ’s only real complaint is that AES states didn’t leave easy avenues for Imperialist countries to destabilize the Socialist systems.
“Um, aktually, sweatie, materialist analysis DEMANDS we be capitalist first” - Tankies when no democracy
This is just the usual “Capitalism is any system with a single drop of Private Property, Socialism is a fully publicly owned economy only” fallacy. Treating Socialism as a unique Mode of Production utterly distinct and separate entitely from how other Modes of Production are analyzed is wrong. That implies that a single drop of Public Ownership would make a system Socialist if we were applying this rule with equal weight, which is bad analysis to begin with.
In reality, a system is determined by its principle character, something the image shows. The reason the US is Capitalist despite having a large Public Sector is because Private Property is the driver of the economy, and controls primary industry like steel. The rubber factory has far more control over the economy than the rubber ball factory, because it comes earlier in the production process, ergo that is one way of exerting economic control. In the PRC, large industry is almost exclusively under the control of the public.
Moreover, this isn’t something we say. Capitalism is not dogmatically necessary, and neither are Markets. Dogmatically rejecting them is wrong, but you do not need to use them to develop in all cases. Moreover, you can’t get rid of small production by banning it outright. Markets are a tool especially effective at lower stages of development, and public ownership is a tool especially effective at higher stages.
Sure would be nice if any of these “Left-wing” anticommunists would actually read Marx and Engels. They regularly make dogmatic errors Marx and Engels disproved centuries ago, and rather than attempting to understand the Marxist point of view, they hold onto a flexible anticommunist stance.
Of course, PJ has denounced the Black Panther Party and supported the Nazi-led lynchings and pograms that made up the 1956 Hungarian Counter-revolution, as well as defended chasers. Their only goal seems to be to pretend to be Left, but defend NATO, western Capitalism, and any resistance to AES. They don’t want the world to get better because they benefit from their comfortable Western position.
@fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com @fxomt@lemm.ee
How is Libertarian Socialism better than Socialism with Chinese characteristics?
Do any countries have a Libertarian Socialism government or political party?
Do any countries have a Libertarian Socialism government or political party?
Is there even a notable libertarian socialist org? All the cool mutual aid orgs like Food not Bombs are just anarchist. Forget having political power, they don’t even have a proper org.
The Zapatistas? Maybe? Although they refuse political classification so they’d disagree if you called them that.
Don’t they fall under Zapatismo? That’s their own thing. They reject “traditional” classification.
Would be nice if they answered, rather than just making a post about this specific comment.
With what is going on the world right now, why is this at the top of their minds?
Because they’re being forced towards the uncomfortable realisation that either;
A) Mask-off fascism is increasing in power and on the march, but it actually aligns with their material interests and they hate it less than they thought they would, so they’re embracing the cryptofash sleight of hand.
B) Mask-off fascism is increasing in power and on the march, but they’ve realised that when the rubber hits the road they’re fucking cowards and would rather keep their heads down. But that makes them feel small so they’ll go after an easier enemy they can claim is equally sinister and authoritarian: a few hundred open online communists with zero power.
It’s rather maddening being that for 4 years leftists were like “why are you respecting these norms, fucking do something, anything”. Meanwhile liberals were busy insisting that the norms couldn’t possibly be bypassed until it was time to blame people for not voting for Kamala.
At this rate if people ever elect Democrats again they’re just going to re-create every obstacle for themselves which Trump just knocked down.
The total number of anticommunists is getting smaller, so the real die-hards are getting louder. Typical reactionary behavior, you can see that “tankiejerk” is just one user and a handful of stragglers coming by, almost identical to MeanwhileOnGrad.
I took a quick glance, and none of them actually refute anything?
it’s just like what BadEmpanada was saying about the ethan klein video: he just gestures at things, and expects you to know that they’re bad.
It’s a testament to Western propaganda really, there’s no need to be intellectual even at a bare minimum level, you only need to vaguely gesture because everyone should already know: “leftism is evil and bad”
Western propaganda is often so reminiscent of 1984 that I would think Orwell was a genuine socialist that got misunderstood, if he wasn’t such a piece of shit person to prove otherwise
When i read it at first i was pretty baffled, he definitely describe capitalism during fascist freefall, why does all those reviews, back covers, tv talking heads all the time insist he was describing communism???
But turned out, he really did had that intention, he was just the worst writer in history, achieving message opposite to intended.
He literally worked for the British government making propaganda during WW2, all the tropes in 1984 are taken direct from the imperial thought control machine.
Smug implication: the ideological plaster that goes over every hole
Honestly backfires a good bit when more reasonable people see anticommunists malding but just showing what Communists say without any critique.
They have faith
Idk seems to me that if a country is ruled by a communist party, then it’s pretty safe to say that they engage in building socialism/communism.
i don’t know what i’d do if hexbear/lemmygrad didn’t exist. I think i’d just avoid this type of media altogether because I can’t handle the amount of concentrated brainrot that exists outside of this little community
I just can’t fathom the mindset that this kinda prop works on. You know the prop that is the most prevalent, basically “dont go to hexbear, they’re [x]!”
Not just hexbear mind you but you get the idea. “Don’t go there/learn that/think this”. I don’t get it, how does it work?
Im not even being hyperbolic, i literally don’t get it.
Whenever i feel like someone’s telling me not to do something, i get a powerful urge to do that thing. The more adamant they are, the more powerful the urge.
I remember it was a month into moving to lemmy that i saw my first “stay away from hexbear” thread (the reddit api fiasco) and i was like “fuck yes they’re so insistent… i have to see whats up in there”
Am i unusually defiant? I thought this trait was human nature.
I also have the urge you describe. Maybe there’s some selection bias at play here, ideologically. A lemmy full of tech people who likely have tech jobs and seem to express conventional reddity tech person politics: that’s multiple axes of being rewarded for not asking difficult questions. Many of them were probably the good kids in school, who did all their homework and never vandalized anything. Going along to get along has served them well so far, so why even stop to listen to those weirdos outside the garden wall?
And OTOH you have a big diverse group of people from all niches of life who’s main unifying ideology is one they’ve all arrived at by suspicion and curiosity. I’d bet that most of us had some early experiences being treated differently for whatever reason (race, sexuality/identity, poverty, being neuroatypical etc) that create a growing dissonance when we’re exposed to childhood propaganda that, perhaps, the kids who the teacher has never been mean to just passively nod at. Not because they’re dumb or any lazy explanation like that, but because they haven’t had the experience of being shunted off the narrow rail of normalcy that makes one feel the bitterness of having to mumble a pledge of allegiance to a fucking flag every morning, and listen to people go on and on about how there is no better society on earth than the one where you already feel completely stifled and alienated, and if anyone says there’s a better society we’ll bomb them off the face of the planet.
Your point here might also explain the frustration they seem to express when talking about it, because interacting with us makes them have to confront the fact they’ve been playing life on easy mode and are lagging behind in curiosity because of it and they’d prefer to keep going through life like they always have
Hmm, thanks for that thoughtful reply, it certainly tracks
They are not materialist. They are idealist. Thus the revolution is the rapture. Anyone thst doesn’t fully commit their soul to the revolution will never see the light of heaven. So to them salvation is through faith not deed. So long as they belive hard enough in the revolution than they will be offered salvation at some point.
It does help them not feel guilty knowing they will never be part of a socialist project here in america.
It’s because they’re cringey R*dditors, meaning they’re hall monitor squares who completely give in to peer pressure and do as they’re told. Normal people usually respond to taboo by going, “You’re fucking with me. This can’t be that bad. I have to see it for myself.”
These Ledditor losers are the type of people that drug PSAs actually work on. “Don’t smoke pot.” “Well, the man on the TV said I shouldn’t smoke pot, so I guess I won’t smoke pot.”
I think it works the same way religion does in that certain things are just “bad” and you just avoid them at all costs. You rely on someone to tell you these things because that makes you the smart one for not having had to burn your hand on the stove to find out for yourself.
It brings me great comfort to know that no matter what I will always have a place to live rent free in the heads of dbzero and .world users
Socialism is when annual average actual working hours is 2450 hours per year:
Note, at the top are those in Chinese internet companies who commit to the full 996 lifestyle of 3600 working hours per year.
Why do we have to work so hard just to make cheap goods for Westerners while we don’t even get to enjoy the fruits of our own labor?
Why??
Not sure how sincere you’re being here but i’ll go ahead and engage straightforwardly.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the world is capitalist, so you have to partake in capitalism to some degree to avoid getting shut out of the global economy and risk a Soviet Union-type dissolution and subsequent hijacking of industry by foreign interests. With the way China has taken over global manufacturing, they’ve entrenched themselves in global commerce to a point where western capitalist powers can’t fuck with them too much once they start doing some of the stuff detailed in the picture above.
It do find it legitimately unfortunate that Chinese workers have had to take on as huge of a workload and as much exploitation as they have because of geopolitical circumstances that are beyond their control, I would love it if the country’s push towards communism was further along than it was, but the implementation of the policies that this post is centred on by the CPC truly makes me believe that China’s brand of state capitalism is a part of China’s transition to socialism rather than actually being a representation of the government’s end goal. Unlike the western capitalist society where I live, I genuinely think there is a light at the end of the road for the people of China.
I really hope I haven’t completely misinterpreted what you’re trying to say here because this long ass reply would become really embarrassing if I did lol
This is completely wrong. We have twice the industrial capacity of the United States, and you cannot name even one country that is anywhere close to surpassing us. We have the technological edge at almost every front except for a few, and far ahead of many other Western countries. We are already making 6th generation fighters ffs!
And yet our income is merely 1/6th of the Americans. This is absolutely insane and you cannot even name another advanced country that is anything like this.
China’s trade surplus registered at $1 trillion last year! And to put it quite bluntly, Chinese labor just created $1 trillion worth of goods and services and GIFTED them to foreigners without getting anything back except for $1 trillion worth of junk papers.
There is one thing that is unique in China that is 内卷 (involution, or “extreme competitiveness”).
Do you know how many dozens of companies are working on EVs in China right now? Many companies are already making losses, squeezing profit margin to the minimum and that translates to lower pay for the workers (or more overtime), and we are about to enter the terminal phase where most of there going to be involuted out of competition and only the few large factories like BYD will survive. That will affect the thousands of companies who serve as intermediaries in the supply chain and many more people who work at those companies.
What the government can simply do is to print the money and raise the wages so we can actually consume and work less. Half of the problem would be solved if the government isn’t so indoctrinated by the neoliberal “market principles” and believe that we have to earn foreign currencies before we can spend at home.
All those “China need to accumulate more productive force” sound straight out of imperialist propaganda and I suspect they are actually imperialistic propaganda aimed to make Chinese people work harder so the West can actually enjoy cheap goods and services perpetually.
And to provide a counterpoint, the USSR didn’t even overtake the US back then and yet they had far better working conditions and at parity with Western European countries at the time.
Also, bonus material:
This was an email that went viral on Chinese social media a couple months ago, purportedly from a supplier to BYD who had been asked to reduce its price by 10% to pre-empt the EU tariffs imposed on Chinese EVs.
Whether the letter is real or not does not matter, but the request for a 10% price cut was real and BYD eventually responded after the netizens storm that it was “not mandatory”.
Anyway, let me translate the third and fourth paragraphs because it was so incisive to the situation with “involution” in China right now:
Your company used “cutthroat pricing” to enter the international market, and mercilessly squeezed your suppliers, so the wealth and value created by the Chinese workers are translated into cheap benefits that serve advanced countries. Such model of endless squeezing has caused our domestic suppliers to fall into the vicious cycle of “either we die from involution (extreme competition), or we die from hunger (company goes broke)”, and this will even directly push otherwise well-run enterprises on to the brink of bankruptcy, and finally cause the entire sector to spiral into a dead-end of endless competition.
More importantly, when BYD pushes its own cost and price down to an extreme level as a strategy to expand into the international market, we have already stepped into the hidden traps set by the high tariffs and boycotts from advanced countries. Once we lose the advantage of pricing competition, the “success” of your company will go up in smoke, while all those profits and revenues squeezed out from your peers will end up benefiting foreign countries. Such short-sightedness will bring not only destruction to yourself, but to the entire supply chain, and end up sacrificing the long term benefit of the Chinese people and their enterprises.
Do you see what’s going on here? Extreme involution is causing an advanced tech sector to squeeze the profits out of their suppliers until the everyone is scraping at the bottom of the barrel. Many EV companies are already making losses for each EV they sold (Xiaomi, for example, loses 7k yuan for every vehicle sold, and by the way, Xiaomi is a phone but everyone is eating into each other’s lunch nowadays - that’s extreme involution!).
Do you now see how the tariffs are supposed to work? It is designed to intensity extreme competition within the industries that is unique in China such that they squeeze each other out of existence, and with it the jobs of many people who work somewhere along the intermediaries. Meanwhile, Western companies are protected behind tariffs and maybe they have to cut their prices a bit, but hey, their people get to benefit from cheaper goods because China is willing to serve as a “competitor”.
As I have always said, working harder is not the way to go. Chinese people need to work less and consume more, not to create value for Western countries, but for our own!
I totally get where you’re coming from, I hope China can expedite the process of getting there without undermining its own stability. I’m not an expert on the full extent of the power that China’s govt has gotten from its manufacturing capacity so I can’t really do too much except for trusting the plan. Do you know any details about work that’s being done within the CPC to address the issues you brought up?
A few years ago there was an initiative to shift the export-heavy economy toward a dual circulation model i.e a balance between external circulation (export) and internal circulation (consumption).
Come 2024, and we saw record trade surplus ($1 trillion) while domestically people don’t even have the money to consume - I don’t have to tell you that it has by all accounts, been a failure.
Why don’t people want to consume? For most people, it’s the uncertainty about the future, not just from Covid, but also falling property prices and potential for layoffs or having to take wage cuts in the near future. As such, people prefer to save their money instead of consuming, and especially have been refraining to spend on buying houses where in some places the prices have already fallen by half.
Imagine working yourself to your limit, using your hard earned money for downpayment and take out a mortgage for the next 30 years, only for the price of your house to fall by 30% in 2-3 years, and if you’re being laid off next year, you’re pretty much screwed.
So people are prudent and prefer to save, not to consume, which only serves to amplify the vicious cycle of less consumption, less demand, production cuts, layoffs etc.
But that is not all, of the 11.79 million high school graduates last year, 45% of them could not find jobs. The same proportion for university graduates. And you know what’s ironic? This is the generation of kids has been trained and educated under the best possible environment in the nation’s history, and guess what? Couldn’t even find jobs after graduation. Funny isn’t it.
The September 24 policy has made it very clear what the central government intends to do: bring up consumption (this was the top priority listed), save the property market, save the stock market, open up the capital market and attract foreign investors to come in and save us with their foreign capital. If there was any illusion before then, they made it very clear this is where they’re heading.
But many of the efforts to drive up consumption were short-term stimulus, for example, last year the government gave subsidies for car purchases, washing machines and refrigerators, and it finally brought the growth to 5% at the end of the year. This year they’re giving out subsidies for cell phones etc., but you can see these are short term policies and does not fundamentally tackle the real problem - wealth inequality. The wealth is being accumulated at the top while most of the people earn less than 5k yuan a month. We know this because only 65 million people have to pay income taxes every year (minimum income of 5k per month).
It looks like the strategy right now is to hope that some tech breakthrough, EV, AI or whatever, can transform the entire economy and pull it out of the rut, but that’s a high risk gambling move, while the government should really just create the money and give them to people so they can stimulate the economy domestically, and focus less on export - this would have been the safe and steady approach.
I really appreciate your insight into the conditions and problems facing your country. If you don’t mind me asking, do you think course correcting consumption is something that can happen in the next few years? What limited understanding I have, China’s government seems capable of recognizing policy mistakes, learning, and applying those lessons in the following years. Actually seeing and living with the process, does that sound accurate, or am I laughably off base?
checkmate tankies
whatever the fuck the DPRK is I mean what the fuck
They always put on the air of an expert who is simply so overwhelmed with the incompetence on display that they lose the ability or willingness to explain themselves, to the point where their rhetoric is just “
” It’s all just smug bluffing all the way downIf you talked to this lib in person and asked them to tell you “whatever the fuck the DPRK is”, they would stammer through some yeonmi park rats pushing trains bullshit and tell you that they all live in tunnels because that’s what they read in World War Z.
ah yes the doug walker strat
Oh my god
This is just the “one drop rule” idealists love because all they care about is the platonic ideal of utopian socialism. Marx would laugh very, very loudly if he interacted with any of these people who thought Socialism was a unique Mode of Production determined by purity, while the rest were determined by their principle aspects and which class is in control.
NO, compromise is NOT acceptable, we MUST implement socialism NOW; otherwise you’re all fascists and completely identical
Lmao this is literally what western “socialists” say all the time, no exaggeration needed
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