• OpenStars@piefed.social
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    2 days ago

    YDI

    While all Nazis may be fascists, not all fascists are Nazis specifically. So it’s incorrect use of language, i.e. at least misinfo if not delivered with intent to mislead that would be disinfo.

    While there is a great deal of similarity between the Alt-Left tankies and the Alt-Right MAGATs, that doesn’t mean that tankies are actual Nazis, just that they support them with such misleading rhetoric as BoTh SiDeS sAmE.

    img

    So this is definitely flamebait. You weren’t trying to convince anyone of anything, just venting your frustrations at the world. People will be more receptive if you consider that their consent to receive messages should matter as well.

    • fxomt@lemm.ee
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      2 days ago

      A better term is “Red Fascist”. They’re not fascists by definition, but supporting totalitarianism and state capitalism (which isn’t even that left lol) and supporting genocide, and purges of people who follow different ideologies than them such as anarchists sounds pretty familiar…

      Can’t forget the cult of personality.

      • OpenStars@piefed.social
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        2 days ago

        But aren’t our particular brand of them here on Lemmy straight-up “tankies” as well? As in they literally, not even merely figuratively, deny that anyone died in the Tiananmen Square massacre?

        Or rather than say that tankie is not accurate, do you mean that it is more inclusive?

        • fxomt@lemm.ee
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          2 days ago

          I meant both, they’re tankies and red fascists. Not all leftism is of course but there’s something deeply ironic supporting a violent and authoritarian ideology while claiming to care about the workers.

          • OpenStars@piefed.social
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            2 days ago

            I find this quite interesting.

            Are all tankies red fascists? If so, then isn’t it implied just by saying that? Or perhaps not bc maybe not everyone knows the former term while the latter spells it out explicitly…

            I have taken to calling them Alt-Left, bc of how they spew disinfo & misinfo and use identical argumentative forms as the Alt-Right - wanting to “win” at any cost, ignoring facts and logic and such in their pursuit of that goal.

            At a very naive guess, the word “fascism” may have a greater emotional impact upon Europeans, while Alt-Right might affect Americans more?

            • fxomt@lemm.ee
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              2 days ago

              Are all tankies red fascists? If so, then isn’t it implied just by saying that? Or perhaps not bc maybe not everyone knows the former term while the latter spells it out explicitly…

              I’d say the term tankie is practically synonymous with red fascist. It’s easy for people to understand.

              I have taken to calling them Alt-Left, bc of how they spew disinfo & misinfo and use identical argumentative forms as the Alt-Right - wanting to “win” at any cost, ignoring facts and logic and such in their pursuit of that goal.

              The terms red fascist and tankie are actually real terms, the former first appearing in 1922 and the latter 1956. Fun fact: all those terms were coined by socialists, that were anti stalinist.

              At a very naive guess, the word “fascism” may have a greater emotional impact upon Europeans, while Alt-Right might affect Americans more?

              I wouldn’t know, i’m not either :)

              But a depressing fact of life is that while your regions are close to fascism now, many of us in the developing world already are living in fascism. I had the misfortune of being born in an absolute monarchy that still has slavery (hint: it’s in the arabian peninsula lol) i’d say it’s 100% fascism. Yes, technically it’s not since fascism is a dictatorship, not a monarchy. Fascism is totalitarianism, not autocracy. Fascism is anti-religion, not islamic. But…

              … I’d argue that makes things worse. I’d rather live under a totalitarian dictatorship than an autocratic monarchy. And at least under italian fascism you can’t be executed for apostasy, adultery or be crucified (yes, this is real) for crimes.

              I’d say this gives me a much more emotional reaction to people thinking authoritarianism is a good idea. I guarantee you every single idiot saying that is living under a democracy, never having experienced what authoritarianism really is.

                • fxomt@lemm.ee
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                  1 day ago

                  True. Only a moron would wish for their own oppression 🙄 If they think authoritarianism’s so great then i’ll be glad to switch lives with them lol.

                  I think that they only think that it’s good because they imagine themselves as the high ranking official, and not as the peasant breaking their backs to feed their slavers.

                  I like these quotes from john steinbeck, i feel that it describes them a lot:

                  Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

                  "Except for the field organizers of strikes, who were pretty tough monkeys and devoted, most of the so-called Communists I met were middle-class, middle-aged people playing a game of dreams. I remember a woman in easy circumstances saying to another even more affluent: ‘After the revolution even we will have more, won’t we, dear?’ Then there was another lover of proletarians who used to raise hell with Sunday picknickers on her property

                  “I guess the trouble was that we didn’t have any self-admitted proletarians. Everyone was a temporarily embarrassed capitalist. Maybe the Communists so closely questioned by the investigation committees were a danger to America, but the ones I knew — at least they claimed to be Communists — couldn’t have disrupted a Sunday-school picnic. Besides they were too busy fighting among themselves.”

                  • OpenStars@piefed.social
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                    21 hours ago

                    You may be interested in watching The Alt Right Playbook, by Innuendo Studios. I think the one that I am thinking of in particular is There’s Always A Bigger Fish.

                    Some people, even poor ones, don’t vote because they think that they will be rich someday - but rather bc they believe that they should be poor, and that the rich should be rich. Possibly they were told this from a religious leader behind a pulpit somewhere, thereby bypassing the normal skeptical thought process (despite the teachings of their own religious texts such as “test EVERYTHING against what you KNOW to be true”, and “the worker deserves their wages”, etc.).

                    As a side effect, The Alt Right Playbook will show you the identical tactics used by those on e.g. Hexbear and Lemmy.ml, despite how they are not “Right” but rather (ostensibly) “Left”.

    • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldOP
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      2 days ago

      TikTok, Xi Jinping, and all Online Tankie communities heavily favored Trump in the USA Election.

      The CCP and Tankies support Nazis.

      • OpenStars@piefed.social
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        2 days ago

        Yes, or more to the point they express favor towards anything that would lead to violent upheaval of the entire Western civilization. Such as beheading landlords, which includes anyone who merely has a bank account that earns interest i.e. old people’s retirement.

        Isn’t this still flamebait though?

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldOP
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          2 days ago

          If I were on Tankies@lemmy.tankies.tech insulting tankies or some other nonsense that would make sense.

          But I insulted Tankies on Flippanarchy. Anarchy and Tankie by definitions are opposing ideologies.

            • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldOP
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              2 days ago

              I’m starting to think literally nobody understands how the mod log works except for me and most of the people who are mods.

              • OpenStars@piefed.social
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                2 days ago

                Tbf it’s somewhat difficult. For me on PieFed I don’t think I can even access it at all, while for others who use a variety of apps they may not be familiar with the process inside that app (e.g. I tried Voyager, but I have zero idea to find the modlog in it). Then for the 1/3rd of people on Lemmy World you are running on software that makes people go into the main modlog and initiate a search using features such as a username, plus having to make assumptions that “3 hours ago” started from… well it obviously wasn’t from NOW, and while it is likely from 10 hours ago, that only further pushes back the assumption that you did not edit the post in the meantime (unless like PieFed it shows both the creation as well as the last edit times, and from there you can add the 3 hours to the creation time to get the likely time of its removal). And all of this ignores whether the screenshot that you offered was taken IMMEDIATELY prior to this post, or if there was some huge delay - I’ve seen posts in this very community where the poster mentions that literally several months have gone by between the removal and the post.

                Also the post that you linked is now gone, spitting back the generic error message “Error! There was an error on the server. Try refreshing your browser. If that doesn’t work, come back at a later time. If the problem persists, you can seek…” - which we all know to be a lie, bc refreshing will do nothing, nor will returning after any length of time.

                However, while all of the above are complicating factors, the fact remains that whatever you are trying to convey is upon you. Neither the screenshot nor the modlog, and now no longer the post as well, say what community name was involved? But if you felt like that fact was relevant, then why not have offered it immediately to people rather than expect them to do all the work to retrieve it? Well, it’s a thought to consider at any rate, to get better traction in the future:-).

                • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldOP
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                  2 days ago

                  I just use Lemmy on web and it’s always a button at the bottom of every page where you can type in a username or community and even if its on a different instance you see all the relevant actions taken since the beginning of time.