You leftists are so dramatic. We just want to leave it to the individual states. Nobody is trying to enact a federal ban.
Delete your period tracking apps, folks.
Also, make no digital trail in relation to reproductive health matters.
are there any truly local and encrypted apps for period tracking? I wanted to try making one if not but obviously no point if its redundant.
I suppose it could still be broken into by the feds if they seize your phone (especially as they can usually coerce you to unlock it) so it would need to have extra safety features
broken into by the feds if they seize your phone
This is the scenario I’m imagining. You just know those misogynistic thugs are going to make every effort to persecute those who run afoul of these insane upcoming laws.
Yeah I wonder if you could have a panic button to wipe your local data if you open the app in a certain way.
Set the app to be restricted to PIN access only, no bio unlock, can’t compel that info without a warrant.
Then app dev has you set up two pins: The first is the same as the phone unlock pin, which is the app self destruct (or just doesn’t decrypt data) and then a different pin that does the data decrypt, so this way if they compelled your pin and then try to open the app with the same one, oops, phone glitch, data gone.
It would also need it’s own keyboard, Google tracks every word you type
My partner’s app (clue?) doesnt need keyboard input for anything so that shouldnt be a big concern. Having one thats totally ephemeral could be better
Real shame we never had a democrat majority in House/Senate/Presidency that could have codified this at any point in the last 50 years
This will also motivate many people to turn out and vote lib, reinforcing the cycle of
liberals moving right > losing > conservatives doing horrid shit > people voting liberals back in
Republicans have an agenda, and they rail it through at every opportunity. I’ve never seen, in my lifetime, a unified effort by the liberal wing of fascism on almost anything. Even when they have full control of the government, they get nothing done somehow.
I have seen the Dems unite under expanding war and genocide a few times so they have at least some cohesiveness
Don’t forget Citizens United and repealing Glass-Steagall!
I wouldn’t say got nothing done.
Just look at Biden’s presidency: ending Europe’s economy, expansion of military contracts by starting wars everywhere, instituting austerity through high interest rate that transferred wealth from poor people (predominantly black and Hispanic) to white people, huge payout to Wall Street (S&P went up two fold under strong inflation), restored America’s oil and gas exporter profit after the prices were kept low under Trump.
They’ve done a lot, just not for you.
Uh, pretty sure they renewed the Patriot Act a couple times.
You’ve always got your token senator to blame it on like Lieberman, Manchin, Sinema, Fetterman, etc. There’s always a focus on the individual, instead of the senatorial system itself, which is dumb and only exists to placate slave states and the rich.
I wish there was a way to show the Democrats are to blame. All o ever get in response is that people need to learn civics and government to see its not actually their fault.
parliamentarian says no material conditions sorry
Muh checks and balances, muh obscure rules that everyone ignores until its time to do something actually good
question from a non-american: How does codifying it stop republicans from undoing it/banning abortions?
It doesn’t stop them, but it would have extended federal protection and forcibly legalized it in all states.
Such legislation would have had to been overturned either by the Supreme Court (typically after it makes it’s way up the court chain), or by new legislation being passed to annul it.
One could argue that since it only requires a simple majority to do either action (to my knowledge), conservatives would have easily undone it multiple times in that span as well; but I would posit that the risk of someone undoing a good act is not a reason to not attempt it at all.
we’re extending the 14th amendment ONLY to fetuses folks
New idea: conscript all fetuses at the moment of conception and then use the 3rd amendment to prevent them from being housed in your domicile
so you want them to do away with the 3rd then?
Yes. You should be legally obligated to house troops in your home and provide them with all the chewing tobacco, energy drinks, and crayons they need to defend your freedoms.
just in case you think I'm being serious
This is a joke
we don’t allow energy drinks in this house, juice boxes will have to suffice
Trump bends the 14th one way to ban birthright, they bend it back this way to give citizenship to a fertilized egg that hasn’t even implanted in a uterus yet
It is in the interest of the Democratic Party that their stated goals are never achieved, lest they have nothing to campaign on. How can you sell someone medicine if they aren’t sick? The Republicans do them a favor by making the country sicker and sicker.
that’s the whole thing that the right wingers always talk about “dems want you to be victims”
thanks biden
Good luck my fellow American comrades
What does Biden have to do with this? Even if he did something about Roe vs Wade getting overturned, they would’ve overturned his action, right?
He could have codified it so it couldn’t be overturned, or only overturned by passing seemingly impossible hurdles. Plus this isn’t a shock, for four years it’s been known that this was on the table should Republicans win again, so any action would have at least been better optics than doing nothing. But it’s worth noting that Biden doesn’t personally support abortions anyways, so I reckon he’s happy about this (if he can understand what’s happening)
said he’d codify it on day one, then came to his senses and found a bipartisan solution. Thanks. ObamaHmm, out of curiosity, where did you come to this belief that congress can pass laws which are impossible to overturn or require hurdles to jump through to overtur? Did you read an article on it? Is the idea to couple an abortion bill with another bill trying to strip Supreme Court review authority?
He could have codified it so it couldn’t be overturned, or only overturned by passing seemingly impossible hurdles.
Isn’t every law equal? How would that work?
Biden could legally kill Trump.
Could’ve but he choose not to
bluefash and redfash
yeah it’s honestly more obama’s fault for having a supermajority and not using it to enshrine any type of rights
they would’ve overturned this action, right?
So what? He was at the highest power, he could have easily told repubs to fuck off and make overturning it impossible
and make overturning it impossible
How?
While Biden was in office, you could at the very least imagine the reverse of what the topic of discussion is now.
Laws are just norms on paper that are constantly trampled via clever loopholes or spurious court-rulings - they don’t actually matter - what matters is who is wielding power and whether anyone is able to stop them. Law-enforcement or invocation of laws is how said power is applied to the stated laws, but stated laws are not a prerequisite to the enforcement of policy/statutes/whims. The lack of a legal pathway to achieve something simply articulates the class character of a polity, not the inability to obtain any certain goal. If something is made nigh impossible to do legally then that is just political deterrence and state-sanctioned
Drone footage of every single anti-abortion senator while they’re taking a shit in the toilet for one.
So the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to birth right citizen ship, but it applies to people who haven’t been born yet?
I’m sure when they point out this obvious hypocrisy and inconsistency in a quipy Sorkinesque matter this will all be resolved very nicely, complete with a John Williams theme in the credits I’m sure!
Your citizenship is revoked at birth, obviously
So what’s their planned enforcement mechanism for this? If states that have legalized abortion on the books simply say “we’re not directing our LEO to enforce this” like with legalized marijuana, what are they going to do? Send out the FBI agents they just fired for being the deep state?
The enforcement has always been going after doctors.
Exactly.
Despite the power everyone else perceives them as having, doctors live in constant fear of the regulatory apparatuses they work within. Especially the socially-minded ones who you’d think would be the kind of people to engage in any sort of civil disobedience. They have many legal powers granted to them above those of regular people, but unlike other groups who have that (eg cops), they are subject to discipline from various directions. Licensing boards, insurers, practice associations, academic institutions, employers, funding of various sources, social peer pressure etc. Every lib doctor knows at least one story of some MD who got their license taken away for too much SJWing. And their identities are so wrapped up in being being doctors, they can’t imagine any other life. Plus there is all the investment/debt of themselves and their families/communities in their education and practice. They know whatever future good they can do to help people, all that can be taken away from them instantly. So any given risk they think of taking to make a stand in this moment, what hangs in the balance is all the future lives they could save and good they might do in the future.
Even in legal states, there are still federal raids on weed shops. The same will happen to doctors.
Our own brown/blackshirts will be formed, theyll call it the BTA (Beauro of True Americans). Sorry ill get off the lathe.
I could imagine them setting up a kind of “national civil enforcement” like what they’ve got in Texas, but on a Federal level. Allowing individual citizens to bring lawsuits in Federal court against doctors (or other individuals) for “facilitating abortion” would have enough of a chilling effect that they wouldn’t necessarily need to count on state or local law enforcement.
I used to believe this would cause a backlash that would launch democrats into power, but after the last election I don’t think that’s true anymore.
Even so, that did happen, democrats would have to run on it (which they seem incapable of doing) and then they might even have to do something about it once they have power- which they’ve proven over and over again that they won’t.
I guess everyone’s going to have to get better at back alley abortions now? Fights to Canada ?
On the West Coast we will need to do what it takes to figure for our rights taken and withheld from us by the genocidal and regressive United States empire.
Comrades elsewhere in the lower United States, I’m not sure what options you have but we welcome you to come west and right with us for a better future. Our geographic isolation offers us this advantage.
Rent’s expensive as shit there tho
Yeah let’s stop sitting on our asses and work on that.
Genuinely I will be shocked if by the end of the century the west coast is still a part of the United States
I think chunks of it will still hang on but they’ll be fragments of their former selves
Serious question, since you seem to be in favor of Cascadian secession as a real thing, what do you make of the fact that large swathes of rural Washington, Oregon, and California are chud central? Seems like it’d be hard to win the war against the US at the same time as a civil insurrection by the hog brigades.
To respond to the first part of your post; It’s more of a talking point to get the liberals away from thinking that discussing Trump’s garbage of the day and the :vote: ing in 2028 is somehow effective at anything. I don’t actually want a civil insurrection, the US government would win with support of the chuds.
However, having this discussion among comrades, and even with liberals (the ones who genuinely want progressive changes) gets things moving in the right direction since it isolates the US federal government and the Democratic Party. If we are going to play at the state level, then both of those entities are going to stand in the way of achieving our goals. Does that make sense?
I will also mention that these topics are complex and honestly difficult for me to organize my thoughts here in a place that is “friendly” like Hexbear. Thanks for responding, and whether the discussion happens here or irl, agree or disagree, I hope as comrades “iron sharpens iron” and we will both come away with a more developed understanding of the age old “what is to be done?”.
For discussion purposes though, I’ll respond to your question: as socialists we understand that the ownership class will not give way to the workers peacefully. I don’t wish to go to war. I hope to avert it. At the same time we do need to discuss this head on (as you are with your question). We need to understand that an violent incursion would be a suicide mission and it would be to our benefit to tip the scales until it’s not an absolute blowout.
Another angle: building media and political infrastructure that will reach out to these people and bring them somewhere into the fold (anyone who is not actually part of the ownership class). We saw from the Bernie campaigns how actually doing politics can engage significant numbers of people from unexpected places. On the west coast we have the upper hand over racist/transphobic culture (kinda sorta, big asterisk, let’s not tangent quite yet). The movement (or party apparatus thereof) can not allow these people to be brought up to leadership positions (unless they demonstrate that they’ve shed those anti-worker, anti-equiality convictions). They can still be made useful at the fringe , and our movement can be poised with open arms (at the fringe) for people who realize that US led capitalism is doomed to fail. We know that capitalism will be unable to survive its own contradictions, so it becomes a bit of a waiting game when it comes to these folks, but we aren’t fucking Democrats so we will have rural outreach programs etc…
There will be true and through fashys out there, but I think it’s very fring, any they’ll find their way over to “greater Idaho” and stfu or something, most likely.
Ah, understood. That makes sense, imo the main thing we have to do as leftists is propagandize to educate and grow our numbers, and being deliberately provocative is a part of that.
Personally I think the PNW/Cascadian “regional identity” is fairly weak and has the same issues as with any regionalist/nationalist movements in the US, in that they often end up incorporating reactionary settler-colonialism because the entire country is founded on it. Imo that means socialism and anti-colonialism will have to be the primary axes around which people organize, and at that point I question how many people regional identity even brings on board.
All that said, obviously we have no idea what will actually work because there’s never been a revolution in similar conditions so I’m not going to be prescriptive.
You have the right idea, the “Cascadia” bit is a shortcut to actual progressive discussions about what it may actually take to make good things happen. We’re doing it right now, even. It’s not meant to be totally serious (unless it actually becomes a thing, but by then it’s way out of our hands anyway).
Proto Cascadian identity (while working toward “socialism with Cascadian Characteristics”) will need to be formed as an extension of indigenous liberation. Half the liberals already can see the farce of land acknowledgments that they do at every city council meeting, but this is what it might look like to see real action. It forms a path to anti-colonialism since even land acknowledgements directly call it occupied land.
Progressive liberals are vulnerable to having their American identity crushed, which is accelerating every day under Trump 2.0. “Socialism with Cascadian characteristics” is a just a bit (or thought experiment), but it takes advantage of what is happening right now and gets them out of the liberal dead-end quickly. There needs to be so we fucking urgency if we are going to protect our communities from fascism and we know we can’t wait 4 more fucking years and then watch Democrats tank to a Vance/DeSantis ticket. Either liberals talk me down or they don’t actually hate this shit and they’re pretenders (a lot of them irl are down to engage though, they’re on their way).
lmao canada is no refuge
Canada has little to no doctors (ie. sort of the opposite problem to US where it may not bankrupt you but you’ll be on a waiting list for years to get a call back from general practitioner or family doctor like me).
no we wait in the US too
Shit… well I see the party is just getting started then
Death to Amerikkka
If this passes, I look forward to the ensuing backlash of a blue wave… Of anti-abortion, anti-immigration, pro-charter school,
“progressives”. That will show them. Looking forward to the police and surveillance apparatuses the democrats funded being used to enforce these laws
Okay, but who could have foreseen a massive police state would be used to oppress its citizenry? I mean, what are the odds?
He got lucky.
"I will follow the law"
I know people are stupid, but like even they can see that if democrats were truly anti abortion they would have done something under Biden especially after roe v wade was repealed
They still largely believe that democrats care about undocumented immigrants even though Kamala made it clear that she didn’t
You’d think so. But…
“preborn”
I demand my rights as an American postmortem person.
I think we deserve more posthumous rights.
This is so shitty, dude. Maybe sometimes, things do happen. Bad things, at least.
Get vasectomies/bisalps while you still can. Even if you think you might want kids later.
I got mine about 6 months after our 2nd was born. It takes no time to perform, and you’ll recover in at most 48 hours.
Bisalp is permanent, vasectomy is not. In case anyone was wondering.
Vasectomy reversals aren’t a guaranteed thing (source: got snipped last month and they reiterated that over and over as part of their informed consent)
Yeah I think the procedure where they clog up the penis haver’s vas deferens is easier to reverse. It’s called RISUG.
Unfortunately it doesn’t serve the pharmaceutical industy in recurring purchases so it doesn’t seem very easy to access.
Why? Have kids and raise them to be communists so they can be dragon slayers. My daughter wasn’t planned but by God I’m going to give her every bit of love, support, and wisdom that I never got. She’s being raised as a good communist and I know she will grow to pass it on to others. Is it tough being a parent right now? Yes, absofuckinglutely, but being anti-natalist is in some way pretty anti-communism. You want our villages to grow? You want good communities? You want a better future? Raise those children to be dragon slayers and give them knowledge than fascists cannot take advantage of.
Adoption.
Lots of women do not want to birth a child since it’s traumatic and dangerous (especially in the US). If the choice is illegal, then the only sane option is to do everything you can to prevent unwanted pregnancy. As a man you have the responsibility of making sure your partner does not get pregnant if she doesn’t want to.
The revolution is not won by birthing as many children as possible from communist parents. Many children from communist parents do not become communists themselves. Focus on educating the working class as a whole.
Welp we’re fudged.
I’ve been saying that this is one big punishment from the bourgeois ruling class to the people who didn’t want to play by their rules and chose to sit out of the election.
Enough people will fold by the 2026 midterms and go back to voting the Democrats. All they have to do is to sit and wait for Trump to dish out the punishment for them.
The system is designed to punish. You can’t force the Democrats to change their policy.
The system is designed to punish. You can’t force the Democrats to change their policy
Definitely true but it also appears to be the case that the whole system is collapsing so it may have been the right call to give the Democrats the middle finger in the interest of destroying American empire.
I don’t think anyone seriously thought that the Dems would change. The issue is that there was zero reason for someone to vote Dems, since they do not propose any alternative to Republican policies.
I have seen many people on the internet saying they won’t vote Democrats unless they change their position on Palestine. So there are people who think that. The post-election survey also noted that the most common reason for sitting out of the election was because of Palestine.
I hold both of these views simultaneously
Do I think they will change their stance? No. But if they do I’m willing to vote for them
some people probably have that hard line without thinking the party will actually do it
The post-election survey also noted that the most common reason for sitting out of the election was because of Palestine.
Do you have a link? Honestly did not think yankbeasts cared enough about anti-imperialism to be a significant factor in a presidential election. But reassuring if true.
It was posted on Hexbear a couple times over the last few weeks. I don’t have the direct link but others here should know/can find the source of what I was talking about.
I don’t see how this makes sense at all, but ok lol
Not sure why you seem to imply people want to (or should) use the ballot-box as an “enlist as a dog of empire” box.
The most marginal demographics in the West have been getting raked over the coals since time immemorial; if more people need to see the inhumanity of bourgeoisie-rule in order to precipitate class-consciousness, that is better than scapegoating minorities to enjoy brunch another election cycle.
Yeah, Republicans could theoretically pass this since they control house and Senate…we’re fudged
They would have to end the filibuster in the Senate to do so, I assume. Not saying that they won’t – it was always a cope for Democrats to not do so.
They won’t hesitate to do that for their pet issue.
I dunno I can totally see them saying “muh norms and traditions are more important than any single bill”.
They did it in 2016 when they wanted to confirm a justice by exempting that issue specifically. Maybe they’ll invent a loophole for themselves
Republicans don’t give a single shit about “norms”, which tbf is their only respectable quality. This wouldn’t be unprecedented either, since in the past they eliminated filibustering for passing the government budget (which is why the parliamentarian was able to block the minimum wage increase, because the parliamentarian decides what is and isn’t part of the “budget” and the dems tried to pass the minimum wage through the budget).
I was talking about Democrats.
The filibuster is imaginary. It takes 60 votes to surpass unless they decide to just use the other path that only takes 51. If you have a cohesive majority the filibuster isn’t real.
Don’t you need more than a simple majority to pass an amendment?
It’s not an amendment. We don’t have the bill text but it appears that based on the title it will be them implementing a ban based on some interpretation of the 14th constitutional amendment, section 1 of which reads:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
this is where bipartisanship comes in
Dems will vote yes and then pat themselves on the back for being “classy losers”.
I’m predicting a party-line vote, with a couple red-state democrats crossing the aisle.
Most likely scenario imo. And of course those red dems will not be expelled from the party because it’s important to have a big tent.
