There’s some guy I talk to who believes the theory that the top 20 percent of dudes get 80% of women, and that because he doesn’t have a brad pitt jaw and isn’t 6’ +, he might as well just hate women because they’ll never like him anyways.

  • GaveUp [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    29·
    4 months ago

    I studied CS so I used to know quite a few. The ones I hung out with though were only incels in the literal sense. They couldn’t get any because they were way too shy to flirt/ask women out, too socially awkward, put almost 0 effort into their looks, etc. but they were very nice people and respected women

    I actually know quite a few incels (in the more common sense) now in my workplace/mutual friends (all tech bros, ofc) but I don’t talk to them + they actually all have GFs/wives because they’re rich/their partners are just as offputting as them

  • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    20·
    4 months ago

    Depending on how you define it, me. I’ve never felt good enough to be in a relationship and I’ve deeply internalized the idea of ‘don’t bother them if they wanted to talk to you they would’

    • FearsomeJoeandmac [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      15·
      4 months ago

      I’ll let you in on something you may or may not be aware of.

      Fwiw in the US and other western societies, men are generally expected to make the first move. So don’t sell yourself short. Especially if you’ve caught them checking you out or staring at you.

      Go up and say hi, introduce yourself and feel things out.

      You won’t know if they want to talk to you if you never try man

      Edit:Man is expected not the woman

    • MaoTheLawn [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      13·
      4 months ago

      if you’re really a leftist, you’d have to be somewhat compassionate, generous, empathetic, and understanding. That makes you a better partner than a lot of people out there.

      Being into politics also shows a level of intrigue in the world that a lot people really just don’t have, and it makes for good conversation and an interesting personality (to those who are also politically inclined).

      That matters a lot. When you’re younger, you fuck people because they’re hot. Quite often the personality isn’t quite there. As you get older, you realise that it’s just not worth the boring hours of conversation for sex where theres no chemistry (because youre not truly comfortable with each other). If you’ve got banter and things in common with someone that you’re passionate about, sex and relationships can feel like they’re just destiny. It just happens, and it feels right, because you’re genuinely connected and enjoying someone’s company.

      I mean seriously, a sizeable number of guys still expect women to cook them a meal and wash up afterwards every day.

      Anyway if you’ve got a stern or disinterested look about you (which you will have, if you’re clocked out), no one will come up to you. Like, I’m an attractive guy, I put a fair bit of effort into how I look, but if I go to a party I don’t want to be at I’ll stand there with a stern face wishing I was somewhere else. No one will really come talk to me. If I’m smiling, dancing, or even just being chatty with people, I’ll get hit on a lot. It makes a world of difference.

      • RyanGosling [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        3·
        4 months ago

        That matters a lot. When you’re younger, you fuck people because they’re hot. Quite often the personality isn’t quite there. As you get older, you realise that it’s just not worth the boring hours of conversation for sex where theres no chemistry

        I keep hearing from people that “it gets better when you’re older.” But i don’t have the patience to wait 10-20 years for it to “get better” lol. I rather mindlessly fuck hot people than to not do it.

        • MaoTheLawn [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          2·
          4 months ago

          I don’t mean 10-20 years. I mean I’m not even 25 and I’m with someone who wants more than to fuck around. There’s plenty of people like that out there. Millions of people get into relationships when they’re not even 20, even if it’s only for a year or two.

          If you want to mindlessly fuck hot people, then you must become a mindless hot person.

    • BeamBrain [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      9·
      4 months ago

      Being autistic, I feel this so hard.

      CW: Ableism

      For all of my life, society - including many “left” spaces - has drilled into my head that I am repulsive, I am undesirable, I am an inferior class of human being whose very existence is an imposition on those around me.

      It is, to put it lightly, not a recipe for confidence in approaching women.

    • RyanGosling [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      3·
      4 months ago

      Well, if you don’t believe they’ll ever reciprocate, then what’s the harm in saying hi? There’s no pressure if you already know the outcome. It’s like a fixed sale vs. a flash sale.

  • ButtBidet [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    17·
    4 months ago

    I’ve had boys in my class go this way before. I hate to sound like I’m bragging, but it’s not hard to push it out of them if they’re under 19 and you have enough time with them. The boys who grow into super reactionaries never take a class with me.

  • CloutAtlas [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    11·
    4 months ago

    I know one that went from having a relatively normal love life to incel because he became a homophobic Catholic in the middle of the George Pell scandal.

  • LanyrdSkynrd [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    71·
    4 months ago

    Is the 80/20 thing really false? I don’t know anything personally, but anecdotally it seems true from talking to men who use the apps to date. Some guys get as many dates as they want, and others basically get none.

    I don’t think it’s about being 6ft or having chadface or whatever, it’s about mastering the stupid gameification of romance(and paying for premium subscriptions).

    I’m happy to be wrong about this, though.

    • kivork [he/them]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      111·
      4 months ago

      It’s absolutely false. Go outside and look at couples walking around or in restaurants. Our perceptions of actual romance are so skewed. Most people are just kindof normal looking. In reality its like the top 90 percent of men get 90 percent of women

      For women on dating apps there is a huge amount of risk to their safety tied to any match. So if the vibes aren’t immaculate or the vibes are good but the person is just pretty cute then it might not be worth the risk.

      For men seeking women there is a question of whether the match will be a disspointment or a waste of money. But for women it’s am I going to die. So of course only a tiny percent of men on effectively anonymous dating apps pass the vibes and initial attraction tests to be worth that risk.

  • Anxious_Anarchist [they/them, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    6·
    4 months ago

    I didn’t really know him personally, but while I was doing a social worker program in college this guy started going on an incel rant in class.

    The class was about internalized oppression and we were in the unit on internalized misogyny, and he just started going off about how women don’t actually want nice guys and how they want the hot rich guys who are abusive.

    He had a lot of other really problematic views, my friends and I still wonder why he joined the program to begin with.

  • Anvil_Lavigne [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    4·
    4 months ago

    there’s one i used to talk to. idk, guess i figured i might be able to help him out of it, but the ideology had seeped into his every cell; it was impossible to have a reasonable conversation with him at all. it was all so horribly naked, too, like he really wanted to be the absolute most vile of the bunch.

    i think about him, sometimes.

    in retrospect, the fact that i tried to talk to him prolly has more than a little to do with where i am today.

  • AlpineSteakHouse [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    31·
    4 months ago

    That’s probably me minus the misogyny.

    I did the whole self-improvement meme, got fit, lost weight, made friends, joined social groups, cut my hair, got a skincare routine, clothes that fit, etc etc. While it did help me make become more outgoing, I’m just too unattractive to realistically get a relationship. I even got a couple of first dates after talking to some folks on Discord. We got along great, bantered, and even had a nice emotional connection. Then we meet up and they see my face and suddenly it gets awkward. There’s a look in their eyes when you go from a potential partner to ugly friend that just hurts.

    90% of non-misogynist incels would be good partners, but no one wants to date them. A significant reason why 2/3rds of young men are single and 1/3rd of young women are single is because a subset of women prefer to date the same man with the hope that eventually they’ll be exclusive. That or they’re unaware that the men they’re after are casually dating other women. Unattractive men are invisible, the only chance they have is personality. But personality means very little in a dating market that’s very young and using mostly apps. If these people could get dates, they’d have a relationship eventually. But getting dates as an unattractive man is almost impossible.

    It does get a bit better for men when you’re older but I’d be too bitter at that point. Knowing that the only reason you’d be given a chance is because everyone’s old, less attractive, and wanting to settle down is a poison that would eat away at me. Even if my partner sincerely thought I was a catch after getting to know me, it still hurts to be the last of someone’s options.

    I’ll probably never get a partner and that sucks. But I do have friends and hobbies to work towards.

    • FearsomeJoeandmac [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      6·
      4 months ago

      I’m not trying to be rude, but this does sound like incel rhetoric minus the woman hating. I see tons of short fat guys with weak jaws or, no cheekbones or even slightly balding. Get some pretty women and even marry them.

      Not like 10/10 Godessss or movies stars or whatever but pretty cute women.

      Part of dating is also getting shot down dude. We’ve all had it happen. You telling me ‘oh all women seem to hate me and it’s because I’m not a chad’ is kind of lame to me.

      I’m happy you’re not a misogynist, but you still have some warped thinking you need to work on.

      I’ll concede that short dudes like 5’8 and under do maybe have it a little tougher than some in the dating market and in the west, if you’re Indian or east Asian, yeah shit will be a little harder. But not impossible

      • AlpineSteakHouse [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        2·
        4 months ago

        I’m not trying to be rude, but this does sound like incel rhetoric minus the woman hating. I see tons of short fat guys with weak jaws or, no cheekbones or even slightly balding. Get some pretty women and even marry them.

        I see these people too. They’re usually older and in more conservative areas. Dating for young people is completely different and for every awkward guy I know that got a girl, I know 10 that have been single their whole lives. I’m not fatalistic, it’s just not likely for this to happen.

        You telling me ‘oh all women seem to hate me and it’s because I’m not a chad’ is kind of lame to me.

        I don’t think women hate me, they just don’t view me as a potential partner. I’ve made friends with a few while trying to date. They’re simply human beings reacting rationally to their environment. If the situations were reversed, most men would probably choose a chance at a very attractive partner over a guarantee with an average one.

        I’m happy you’re not a misogynist, but you still have some warped thinking you need to work on.

        Honestly I just feel gaslit by society at this point. At what point will my years of rejection be enough to show people that I’m unwanted? I worked on myself, put forth effort, made friends of both genders, got some dates, and I still haven’t met a single person who even considered me on option. There isn’t someone for everyone. That’s cruel I think its crueler that we pretend if these people just got out more they’d all be able to find someone. It’s why you shouldn’t tell kids in poverty that they can become president if they work hard, the circumstances of your birth determine how far you can go.

        It sucks but there’s more to life than a romantic partner. Besides that I’m pretty fulfilled. Give it a few more years of trying and then I’ll give up forever.

        • FearsomeJoeandmac [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          3·
          4 months ago

          Please don’t break my post down like a reddit debate guy 🙏 (jk)

          I’m 34 so not that old and I see plenty of zoomer women with guys who are like 4s if we’re going to be rating people in that way.

          Why don’t you tell me what exactly is wrong with your face and height in your eyes?

          That word akward is important and I’m going to hone in on that later.

          You know what I mean, they don’t literally hate you as a person. You mean they just find you as a romantic partner automatically unattractive because you aren’t a ‘chad’

          The whole they’re ‘reacting naturally’ thing is very much veering toward Blackpill rhetoric. I see incels saying almost verbatim this same thing. As if women have no agency and are automatically drawn to a ‘chad’ no matter what.

          I get the feeling it’s more you’re off-putting and AWKWARD socially in some way you can’t see yourself, rather than you being hideous.

          I know the dating world is also extremely tough for men who aren’t neurotypical

          I don’t hate you man and I’m certainly not trying to pick on you. I just really dislike black pill rhetoric.

    • GaveUp [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      5·
      4 months ago

      A significant reason why 2/3rds of young men are single and 1/3rd of young women are single is because a subset of women prefer to date the same man with the hope that eventually they’ll be exclusive

      lol wtf it’s because hetero women tend to date older

      • AlpineSteakHouse [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        21·
        4 months ago

        lol wtf it’s because hetero women tend to date older

        True, but only 3-4 years older on average.. Since “young” in this case covers 18-29, women dating older is insufficient to explain the massive discrepancy.

        In all fairness, the rate of “serious relationships” is only a 10 point difference as opposed to 30 points but that doesn’t conflict with my original statement. That being young women casually dating a smaller pool of men but not necessarily entering into a serious relationship.

        • FearsomeJoeandmac [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          3·
          4 months ago

          There’s no way you aren’t browsing incel forums.

          You use all the same rhetoric. You just claim you don’t hate women.

          You want a relationship so bad and there’s something off about you the ladies don’t like, it’s almost certainly not your looks dude.

          The blackpill shit is super off putting. I’m surprised to see it on hexbear.