Japan's government has finally eliminated the use of floppy disks in all its systems, two decades since their heyday, reaching a long-awaited milestone in a campaign to modernize the bureaucracy. By the middle of last month, the Digital Agency had scrapped all 1,034 regulations governing their use, except for one…
  • MsPenguinette@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1281·
    5 months ago

    The comment section is wild. So many people thinking that the Japanese government is somehow late to the floppy free party. Clearly they have no idea how dire the IT infrastructure situation is for the most critical systems of the world’s major super powers

    If you think the US government is floppy free, let alone capable of going floppy free in the next 5 years, I’ve got a bridge to sell ya

    • MissJinx@lemmy.worldEnglish
      31·
      5 months ago

      Not only because the infra is bad but also because floppy is “safer”. It’s not "connected"amd no one can invade it.

        • I_poop_from_there@lemmy.worldEnglish
          49·
          5 months ago

          Security through obscurity would be having a system connected to a network, but relying on a secret / unknown protocol to secure it.

          Air-gapping a system is a real and very useful security method. That being said, it’s not enough by itself.

          If you’re interested, have a look at past examples, like the recent work on breaking Tetra communication standard and Stuxnet.

          • credit crazy@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4·
            5 months ago

            As another guy joked it’s really is genuinely more accurate to call floppy discs security by obsolescence because everyone doesn’t have the stuff required to manipulate/read floppy discs and there are even people who don’t even know what a floppy disk is and just think it’s a physical save button

        • Rubanski@lemm.eeEnglish
          12·
          5 months ago

          That’s why I only communicate via poop/sparkle emoji Morse code

          ✨💩💩💩 ✨✨💩 ✨✨✨ 💩➿✨💩✨✨ ✨✨ 💩✨💩 ✨➿💩 ✨✨✨✨ ✨✨ ✨✨✨

    • nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.caEnglish
      18·
      5 months ago

      Where are floppies used in the US government? Old mainframes are all over the place but where are floppies?

      Japan just got an acute case of what a lot of western governments have - IT early adopter disease. These old systems were built using (at the time) revolutionary technology that was designed without much thought given to modularity or sun-setting.

    • PieMePlenty@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      5 months ago

      Its been a while since I used one but arent 3.5’s unreliable? I still remember having problems with data integrity way back then. I dont remember them as some rock solid tech and I’d rather put my faith into 650MB CDs if I had to choose.

      • WhatsHerBucket@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        5 months ago

        3.5 inch disks only held about 2MB on a good day. Reliable or not, you won’t get much on that disk these days.

        Unless you are going to make your own backups and take them somewhere else, I would use a cloud solution. Yes, you have to trust the company you choose not to fuck with your data, but they are fault-tolerant solutions that will likely last longer than some random removable solution.

      • credit crazy@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        5 months ago

        Granted I’m too young to have handed floppys but from what I understand from my dad and other people the appeal of floppys today is not reliability but rather that normal people have moved on to USB and CDs and have long since thrown away their floppy drives and some people only know them as icon buttons making them pretty good spot to hide classified documents and government secrets

        • flerp@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          5 months ago

          I can’t imagine that’s the main reason. You can buy a 3.5" floppy reader with a usb connection for like 20 bucks on amazon and anyone who wanted to get their hands on government secrets would not be deterred by that.

          I think the simplest and most likely reason is that updating things and making changes in bureaucracies is hard on its own, and any time you start dealing with tech it’s all a house of cards where one system depends on another and so changing any one thing will either make it all fall down or bring along with it massive sweeping changes.

      • ouRKaoSEnglish
        2·
        5 months ago

        …punch cards. My money is on punch cards.

    • uis@lemm.eeEnglish
      2·
      5 months ago

      Meanwhile I’m pretty sure even putinism didn’t stop Russia from being floppy-free

  • shortypants@lemmy.worldEnglish
    51·
    5 months ago

    They still have a love affair with faxes though. Thank God you can fax from 7 Eleven. You can do pretty much anything from 7 Eleven.

      • kevincox@lemmy.mlEnglish
        44·
        5 months ago

        Convenience stores in Japan are much more than the cigarettes and lottery tickets of North America. They have lots of ready-to-eat food, snacks, drinks as well as some banking services, bill payments, faxing and more.

          • kevincox@lemmy.mlEnglish
            41·
            5 months ago

            Yeah sorry. I should have said “ready-to-eat food that you actually want to eat”. As in hot food regularly being cooked and refrigerated food that is brought in fresh multiple times a day.

      • kalleboo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11·
        5 months ago

        Each 7-11 in Japan has one of those big business multicopiers. You can copy, print, scan, fax. The printing is sweet because it does photo printing on glossy paper, but also laser printing up to A3 size or even making custom post cards. They also have databases of paid content like sheet music and stuff you can print. I prefer Lawson/FamilyMart though since they also have sticker printing!

        • funkycarrot@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
          3·
          5 months ago

          You have just convinced me to put “visit a 7-11” on my Japan bucket list*. I need to know what it feels like to print sheet music there.

          *I may not ever get to go to Japan, but we can all dream

          • nbailey@lemmy.caEnglish
            4·
            5 months ago

            Trust me, if you go to Japan you will go to a 7-11 whether you want to or not. They are absolutely everywhere, like “ubiquitous” is an understatement. I think when we were there we went to 2-5 convenience stores per day just because they were just so… convenient…

  • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
    40·
    5 months ago

    I drew a floppy disk as part of a workplace online Pictionary game, only to find somebody I work with has never seen one.

    We work in IT.

    The rest of us tried to explain what they were and he was like “did you use them in a GameCube?” and “was it like a USB stick?”

    • Laser@feddit.orgEnglish
      371·
      5 months ago

      I mean it was a bit like a USB stick. Just nobody made the comparison back then because USB didn’t exist. But yes it is removable storage that is read/writable.

      GameCube though…

          • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
            8·
            5 months ago

            We didn’t get a chance to ask that as everybody over 30 had already crumbled to dust by this point.

        • capital@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          5 months ago

          It’s happening… there have been posts from time to time over the years pointing out this issue.

          It was bound to happen but now I can’t remember the ideas people came up with for a new save icon.

    • Irelephant@lemm.eeEnglish
      3·
      5 months ago

      Nintendo was planning on adopting floppies iirc, but they were too easy to copy from.

      • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
        3·
        5 months ago

        There was definitely a SNES floppy drive you could buy for piracy purposes. A few kids at school had them.

        Not sure if it worked with larger games or Starfox which supposedly had an extra SuperFX chip to do 3D work.

        • Cypher@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          5 months ago

          No supposedly about it, Starfox was the most famous example but having extra hardware in the cartridge to power games was a thing.

      • hark@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        5 months ago

        Nintendo did use them for the add-on Famicom Disk System but that was all the way back in the 80s.

  • Jeena@piefed.jeena.netEnglish
    331·
    5 months ago

    Great job!

    Although, using floppy disks has the advantage that everyone has to make sure their file sizes are small enough to fit on them. Which makes for much easier handling for those who don’t use floppy disks.

    • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
      11·
      5 months ago

      or… you end up with more smaller files to keep track of in order to carry the same information that could’ve been in one large file

      • intensely_human@lemm.eeEnglish
        6·
        5 months ago

        The best big data solution is those big boxes with 100 floppy disks. Just make sure you get one with the labels included. Not making that mistake again.

    • borth@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      3·
      5 months ago

      How does small file sizes in floppy disks make it easier handling for those won’t use floppy disks? Genuinely curious.

      • randon31415@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        5 months ago

        Think if Twitter for government documents. If the pure text can’t fit in a floppy, nobody’s got the time to read it.

    • cm0002@lemmy.worldEnglish
      26·
      5 months ago

      Although, using floppy disks has the advantage that everyone has to make sure their file sizes are small enough to fit on them. Which makes for much easier handling for those who don’t use floppy disks.

      What? How is that at all relevant in today’s age?

      • eRac@lemmings.worldEnglish
        20·
        5 months ago

        The lack of pressure leads to absurd file sizes for silly things.

        A few weeks ago, I needed a vector company logo, so I asked our graphics team for one. The file they sent me was 6MB. While working with it, I noticed it was actually quite clean, so I exported it as an SVG and it came out to 2KB. 1/3000th the size for the exact same graphic.

        I opened their file up in a text editor and found font configs for specific printer models (in a graphic with only filled curves), conditional logic, multiple thumbnails, and other junk.

  • Firestorm Druid@lemmy.zipEnglish
    15·
    5 months ago

    Imagine if Germany tried to do this. So much crucial infrastructure would simply collapse. Bureaucracy everywhere in Germany is based on and hinges on technologies from the past millennium: floppy disks, FAX etc. Jesus

    • Gestrid@lemmy.caEnglish
      8·
      5 months ago

      Fax machines are actually still pretty widely used in corporate America (but not in households at all). Especially insurance and medical companies. I remember having to ask my dad years ago to fax something for me from his work (a bank’s corporate office) since we didn’t have one in the house. (I don’t remember what the fax was for.)

      • uis@lemm.eeEnglish
        31·
        5 months ago

        I think with voip you can fax again, now from computer

    • nicerdicer@feddit.orgEnglish
      6·
      5 months ago

      Jesus only in Bavaria. But otherwise you’re right.

      An anecdote: Back when I was studying we had the opportunity to gain a temporary full version of a specialised software. All there was to do was to proof that one is a legit student. We had to submit our proof of enrollment to the software’s manufacturer. The only way to do so was to submit it via fax! It coldn’t be done with email, as they told us on the telephone hotline. The software was a German product. We already have been overtaken by the rest of the world (regarding the IT sector).

    • blackris@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      3·
      5 months ago

      As a german I can’t remember, when I used a fax the last time. I think, I have sent two or three faxes in my whole life and that was long ago. But while I am pretty sure, some administrations still use that shit, I cannot imagine, anyone in Germany used a floppy after the 90th. Maybe some retro freaks or an ancient tecnological device that resist to die. But that would really be an exemption.

      Fucking excel sheets, though …

    • circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      3·
      5 months ago

      I can’t remember where, but I think I’ve seen that spun as a security benefit (probably facetiously). Simply because few people can access floppies anymore, especially 5 1/4". And there’s probably like 20 people with 8 inch floppy drives.

      Edit: oops… There is literally a comment in this thread saying the very same.

  • Ogmios@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    157·
    5 months ago

    If it works well for the job that it’s tasked to perform, why change it? It’s got the added benefit of being an unintentional security feature now too, as very few others will even have a drive for reading them. Sort of like how manual transmissions are much less likely to be stolen now.

    • kevincox@lemmy.mlEnglish
      22·
      5 months ago

      This is a great point, but it probably doesn’t do the job as well as more modern alternatives.

      1. Easy to lose, possible data leak concerns.
      2. Easy to retain data that should have been deleted.
      3. Easy to lose data if a disk gets lost or damaged.
      4. Likely wastes time when trying to track down the disk you need to getting someone to transfer it.
      5. Lack of access logs and auditing capabilities.
      6. Easy way for viruses to spread.

      Modern IT managed file servers solve a lot of real problems when well-managed.

    • m-p{3}@lemmy.caEnglish
      20·
      5 months ago

      On the other hand, if you use an old technology that isn’t being mass produced anymore, it can reach a point where it will become a big liability for a mission-critical piece of equipment.

      • Mpatch@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        5 months ago

        Yah this is bad I run a cnc plasma table, big table 10 feet x 20 feet. It uses floppy disks. Pain in the ass to find a new drive and pain in the ass to find new disks because constant write re write emf and metal dust kills them. But despite that it’s still cheaper and easier than a $15k retro fit to a more modern controler.

        • Ogmios@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          13·
          5 months ago

          If it works well for the job

          Your example is one where it clearly isn’t a great fit for the job. If you wanted to transfer sensitive data discretely, a floppy could be significantly better than a wired network where you’ve got to worry about America/Russia/China/Israel/Iran and who knows who else peeping on the transfer, or a USB drive which is already known to be compromised by stuxnet derivatives.

      • Wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        5·
        5 months ago

        I think there was something about the US government having to finally get rid of vacuum tubes because the only suppliers were in Russia.

  • molave@reddthat.comEnglish
    7·
    5 months ago

    At a broader level, this is why I stopped chasing after the cutting edge technology for the sake of it. If it vastly improves my everyday life, sure, I’ll consider adopting. Otherwise, I’ll just be miserable if it’s not something I’m passionate about.

  • jafffacakelemmy@mander.xyzEnglish
    5·
    5 months ago

    there’s no victory here - in the article it states that at least one still law requirse floppy disks must continue to be used.

  • ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lolEnglish
    4·
    5 months ago

    Well, at least they’re trying to make their resource use more efficient in terms of technology. Big problem with society on the globe as a whole. Everything is built on top of the old. If cities were built from scratch today, well… yeah. Would be a lot different.