• Rivalarrival
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    4 months ago

    Where are you getting that? That question wasn’t put to SCOTUS.

    Trump was charged. Trump claimed he had “absolute immunity”, and didn’t have to face charges. Court rules against him in this issue; he appealed. Appellate court ruled against him, sending the case back to the trial court. He appealed to SCOTUS. SCOTUS said he doesn’t have absolute immunity, and that the limit of his immunity is on his “official acts”. SCOTUS then sent the case back to the trial court. The trial court will have to determine whether his actions were “official” or “unofficial”.

    • dudinax@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      4 months ago

      From the decision:

      Whenever the President and Vice President discuss their official re- sponsibilities, they engage in official conduct. Presiding over the Jan- uary 6 certification proceeding at which Members of Congress count the electoral votes is a constitutional and statutory duty of the Vice President. Art. II, §1, cl. 3; Amdt. 12; 3 U. S. C. §15. The indictment’s allegations that Trump attempted to pressure the Vice President to take particular acts in connection with his role at the certification pro- ceeding thus involve official conduct, and Trump is at least presump- tively immune from prosecution for such conduct.

      • Rivalarrival
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        4 months ago

        What part of that statement is about attacking Congress or subverting the electoral college?

        It is certainly within the president’s and vice president’s responsibilities to determine whether to certify the count. They have to be able to say “no, this should not be certified”.

        Saying “no” can still be used as evidence of another crime, it’s just not a crime in and of itself.

        • dudinax@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          4 months ago

          Trying to convince the VP to fraudulently say no to the EC count is the crime. The president and the vice president don’t get to pick the next president. The electoral college does. The only legitimate reason the VP could say no to the EC count is if for some reason the count itself were wrong, in which case the VP and Senate should correct it and move on.

          That, of course, wasn’t the basis for the discussion. Trump was trying to get his fake electors counted, or to at least have Pence declare that he couldn’t tell which electors were real.

          • Rivalarrival
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            4 months ago

            Trying to convince the VP to fraudulently say no to the EC count is the crime

            Knowingly making a false statement to the VP would, indeed, be a criminal fraud, but the passage you cited does not contemplate such an act.

            Trump was trying to get his fake electors counted

            That, too, is not contemplated in the passage you cited.

            • dudinax@programming.dev
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              4 months ago

              The mere act of talking to the VP about it is contemplated and by default (according to this ruling) protected. You can’t tell the VP to change the electors without talking to him!

              Edit: Obviously the fact that the pres. committed a crime can’t be considered as a reason to deny immunity, otherwise it wouldn’t be immunity.

              • Rivalarrival
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                4 months ago

                Talking to the VP about not confirming is protected. Lying to the VP about the reason why he should not confirm is not protected.

                  • Rivalarrival
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    4 months ago

                    The trial court is free to determine that lying to the VP for purposes of committing election fraud does not constitute an official act. The fact that they remanded the decision to the trial court instead of reversing the trial and appellate court is the “exception” you are looking for.

                    They denied his appeal. Ok? He claimed absolute immunity, they said “No, you only have immunity for your official acts. We aren’t going to save you here. The trial court is going to burn your ass.”

    • dudinax@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      4 months ago

      BTW, my Lemmy instance isn’t showing replies to your comment, including my own reply, so if it didn’t come across, I’m sorry but I don’t know what else to try.