Whenever the President and Vice President discuss their official re-
sponsibilities, they engage in official conduct. Presiding over the Jan-
uary 6 certification proceeding at which Members of Congress count
the electoral votes is a constitutional and statutory duty of the Vice
President. Art. II, §1, cl. 3; Amdt. 12; 3 U. S. C. §15. The indictment’s
allegations that Trump attempted to pressure the Vice President to
take particular acts in connection with his role at the certification pro-
ceeding thus involve official conduct, and Trump is at least presump-
tively immune from prosecution for such conduct.
What part of that statement is about attacking Congress or subverting the electoral college?
It is certainly within the president’s and vice president’s responsibilities to determine whether to certify the count. They have to be able to say “no, this should not be certified”.
Saying “no” can still be used as evidence of another crime, it’s just not a crime in and of itself.
Trying to convince the VP to fraudulently say no to the EC count is the crime. The president and the vice president don’t get to pick the next president. The electoral college does. The only legitimate reason the VP could say no to the EC count is if for some reason the count itself were wrong, in which case the VP and Senate should correct it and move on.
That, of course, wasn’t the basis for the discussion. Trump was trying to get his fake electors counted, or to at least have Pence declare that he couldn’t tell which electors were real.
The mere act of talking to the VP about it is contemplated and by default (according to this ruling) protected. You can’t tell the VP to change the electors without talking to him!
Edit:
Obviously the fact that the pres. committed a crime can’t be considered as a reason to deny immunity, otherwise it wouldn’t be immunity.
The trial court is free to determine that lying to the VP for purposes of committing election fraud does not constitute an official act. The fact that they remanded the decision to the trial court instead of reversing the trial and appellate court is the “exception” you are looking for.
They denied his appeal. Ok? He claimed absolute immunity, they said “No, you only have immunity for your official acts. We aren’t going to save you here. The trial court is going to burn your ass.”
“The trial court is free to determine that lying to the VP for purposes of committing election fraud does not constitute an official act.”
Based on what standard? How could a trial court reach such a decision in a way that won’t be overturned?
The Supremos have sent this back to the courts with the message that there’s only one way to decide and no plausible way to reach another conclusion that will hold up.
From the decision:
What part of that statement is about attacking Congress or subverting the electoral college?
It is certainly within the president’s and vice president’s responsibilities to determine whether to certify the count. They have to be able to say “no, this should not be certified”.
Saying “no” can still be used as evidence of another crime, it’s just not a crime in and of itself.
Trying to convince the VP to fraudulently say no to the EC count is the crime. The president and the vice president don’t get to pick the next president. The electoral college does. The only legitimate reason the VP could say no to the EC count is if for some reason the count itself were wrong, in which case the VP and Senate should correct it and move on.
That, of course, wasn’t the basis for the discussion. Trump was trying to get his fake electors counted, or to at least have Pence declare that he couldn’t tell which electors were real.
Knowingly making a false statement to the VP would, indeed, be a criminal fraud, but the passage you cited does not contemplate such an act.
That, too, is not contemplated in the passage you cited.
The mere act of talking to the VP about it is contemplated and by default (according to this ruling) protected. You can’t tell the VP to change the electors without talking to him!
Edit: Obviously the fact that the pres. committed a crime can’t be considered as a reason to deny immunity, otherwise it wouldn’t be immunity.
Talking to the VP about not confirming is protected. Lying to the VP about the reason why he should not confirm is not protected.
Did you find anywhere in the decision where they make an exception for lying?
The trial court is free to determine that lying to the VP for purposes of committing election fraud does not constitute an official act. The fact that they remanded the decision to the trial court instead of reversing the trial and appellate court is the “exception” you are looking for.
They denied his appeal. Ok? He claimed absolute immunity, they said “No, you only have immunity for your official acts. We aren’t going to save you here. The trial court is going to burn your ass.”
“The trial court is free to determine that lying to the VP for purposes of committing election fraud does not constitute an official act.”
Based on what standard? How could a trial court reach such a decision in a way that won’t be overturned?
The Supremos have sent this back to the courts with the message that there’s only one way to decide and no plausible way to reach another conclusion that will hold up.