I’m curious where people see Universal Basic Income on the political spectrum. Please mention what national/cultural/generational background is informing your answer. Thanks!

  • @tal
    12•6 months ago

    Depends on the implementation, and I think that that’s something of an issue in discussion about it – because its effects depend a great deal on the specifics.

    There is a portion of the small government conservative crowd that sees it as a replacement for welfare programs where the government mandates policy. Like, instead of getting, oh, food stamps or such, where the government precisely spells out policy in each area (“this is what you are permitted to buy with this”), people who are poorer than a certain amount would simply get a flat cash payment and choose how to use it. In that sense, it’d reduce the degree of control that government has, which is a goal that they’d like to see.

    There’s also a portion of the redistribute-more-wealth crowd on the left that sees it as existing alongside existing welfare programs, rather than as a replacement. For them, if the government has progressive taxation policy (like, income tax brackets or the like), a flat benefit to everyone will tend to redistribute more, which is a goal that they’d like to see.

    Both implementations would qualify as UBI – they both provide an unconditional basic income. But the actual effects depend on the implementation.

    So when someone says something like “sign this petition for UBI”, I think that a really good question is “tell me what sort of UBI you are aiming to have implemented”, because the details have a very considerable impact on what it is that you’re signing up to support.

    • @otp@sh.itjust.works
      3•6 months ago

      “Only one fund to lock to a fixed number rather than tie to inflation, and then bring down? Sign us up!”

      • Conservatives
    • @bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
      -2•6 months ago

      So when someone says something like “sign this petition for UBI”, I think that a really good question is “tell me what sort of UBI you are aiming to have implemented”, because the details have a very considerable impact on what it is that you’re signing up to support.

      It doesn’t matter because petitions don’t work for affecting legislative change.

      • @tal
        2•6 months ago

        Mmm…it depends. So, one particular example I recall calling for UBI without giving any details and urging people on /r/Europe to sign up for it was at an international level in Europe, and I don’t know what, exactly, the implications of that petition were.

        But there are definitely systems of government where petitions do make a difference. The popular initiative exists, and there it’s explicitly part of the process.

        I’m not really a huge fan of the popular initiative and referendum – I live in California, which uses both, and I think that some of the policy that I think is most ill-considered in California has gone through via that process. However, it certainly can – and has, on a number of occasions, has – had dramatic impact on the state’s policy, as with California’s unusual property tax situation.

        https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/ballot-measures/pdf/statewide-initiative-guide.pdf

        Initiative Statute: Petitions proposing initiative statutes must be signed by registered voters. The number of signatures must be equal to at least 5% of the total votes cast for the office of Governor at the last gubernatorial election. (Cal. Const., art. II, § 8(b); Elec. Code, § 9035.)

        The total number of signatures required for initiative statutes is 546,651.

        Initiative Constitutional Amendment: Petitions proposing initiative constitutional amendments must be signed by registered voters. The number of signatures must be equal to at least 8% of the total votes cast for the office of Governor at the last gubernatorial election. (Cal. Const., art. II, § 8(b); Elec. Code, § 9035.)

        The total number of signatures required for such petitions is 874,641.

        Once proponents have gathered 25% of the number of signatures required (136,663 for an initiative statute and 218,661 for an initiative constitutional amendment), proponents(s) must immediately certify they have done so under penalty of perjury to the Secretary of State. (Elec. Code, § 9034(a).) Upon receipt of the certification, the Secretary of State will provide copies of the proposed initiative measure and the circulating title and summary to the State Senate and Assembly. Each house is required to assign the proposed initiative measure to its appropriate committees and hold joint public hearings at least 131 days before the date of the election at which the measure is to be voted on. (Elec. Code, § 9034(b).) However, the Legislature cannot amend the proposed initiative measure or prevent it from appearing on the ballot. (Elec. Code, § 9034©.)