Wtf is this comment? So you either āturn the other cheekā and just let him harrass you, or else āyou have to ruin his life and make him wish he was never bornā?
You are right that OP doesnāt have to āturn the other cheekā and does not have to put up with peopleās shit, but just because you should not turn yourself into a masochist that does not mean you should turn yourself into a sadistā¦
I have been running my own server for a few years now. I would describe it more as an alternative for Whatās App or Signal than an alternative to discord. I think itās more used in a professional/and or government setting for organisations who need to run their own services.
Also, Matrix is just the protocol behind it and there are quite a few different clients for it, the most popular one is element. Lemmy.world also has a link to their Matrix instance.
What I mean that youāre only point is āyouāre not the majority so shut upā.
My only point is āyouāre not the majorityā, you donāt even need to shut up, you can have whatever opinion you want to have, just donāt pretend to represent āthe communityā when you donātā¦
Me having a mini jack in the phone doesnāt mean that you, a person that doesnāt care about one, is somehow disadvantaged.
Itās an additional port that needs to be included into the design and that needs physical space. And itās another way to get dust and/or fluids into the phone, all without any benefit for me or most usersā¦ You can claim that the impact is minimal, but there still is an unnecessary impact.
You agreed already that Apple didnāt remove the mini jack to make the phone smaller, it was just to make more money.
Everything apple does and other companies do is to make more money, thatās pretty much the entire motivation behind anything companies doā¦
Itās the same 7 years later, people still donāt believe itās for any other reason than to make a little bit more money.
Of course it is to āmake more moneyā, or rather to save money on things that have no measurable benefit for most usersā¦
Ok, so youāre a docile consumer. When company does something you donāt like you just say 'well, Iām in the minority, I will still just buy it without complaining".
No, when a company does something I donāt like or that is a dealbreaker for me, I donāt buy the productā¦
Itās just weird youāre so annoyed with people who do complain, especially on lemmy.
People can complain about whatever they want. What is annoying to me is when people say stuff like āthe community has been requesting this for a couple years ago now so why not.ā or āadding a little headphone jack shouldnāt be that hardā when this debate has been settled years ago alreadyā¦
Linux has ~3% market share. I guess we should just stop complaining when companies donāt support it, majority of people donāt care. Most people donāt care about privacy, they care about cheap and easy products, letās stop complaining about Google and Meta tracking everyone.
Again, you can complain all you want. But if somebody made a post saying āGoogle is still using, selling and tracking user data. The community has been requesting that they stop doing that years ago, so why do they still do it? They only do it to make money. Just stop doing it, shouldnāt be too hard.ā, it would in my opinion be a ridiculous and pointless postā¦
You keep making the same point
You made a claim that I wrote something I didnāt write, do you expect me to just let you put words into my mouth?
You have a different standard.
The vast majority of people interested in the fairphone have āa different standardāā¦
But for me what Apple did was wrong.
Ok, great, you have an opinion. An opinion I can completely understand. What does it have to do with this post though?
Mini jack was not obsolete
It wasnāt. But itās not 2017 anymoreā¦
Even you admitted they only did it for profit
Of course they did, why else would they do it, they are a company.
just donāt criticize people that do care.
I will criticize whoever I want because itās fucking annoying to have the self-rightous jack defenders pretend martyrers proudly proclaim that they will sacrifice themself and not buy the newest fairphone because āfairphone went against community demandsā and act as if they are the majority and represent the views of āthe communityā IN 2023ā¦
They donātā¦ Most people in the fairphone community didnāt care about the jack back when it was removedā¦ Most members of the community preferred a slimmer phone to a headphone jack back when the last fairphone was released. And despite of this, you still had some loud-mouths who acted as if their opinions alone represent āthe communityā, ignored all the discussion in the community and claimed that fairphone acted against community interest.
And as āa member of the fairphone communityā, I didnāt say anything, like most who donāt care about the jack, because I donāt care about the jack, I care about being able to change parts, I care about it lasting for many years and I care about it being small enough to fit in my pocket comfortably.
That was years ago, back when the fairphone decided to do this. And now, the upcoming model doesnāt bring it back (to the surprise of virtually nobody) and you have the same wannabe martyrers saying stuff like ājust bring it back, how hard can it be, the community demands itāā¦ No, the community doesnāt demand itā¦ The community demands a modular and long lasting phone that is slim and cheap at the same timeā¦
weāll do it as long as we can
Do whatever pointless posturing you want, just donāt act as if you are in the majority or represent all of a community when you donātā¦
still claim that people donāt use phones for music.
But I have never claimed that āpeople donāt use phones for musicā, I claimed that most people donāt use their phone to listen to music on their headphonesā¦ Many do, me included, but most simply donātā¦
If you ignore all the people that care about an issue you will conclude that no one cares.
But I donāt conclude that nobody caresā¦ Obviously at least some people care, this post was made by somebody who does for exampleā¦ But the thing is that a majority of people donātā¦
Wow, thatās a bold statement.
If you think that it is a bold statement you absolutely live in a bubbleā¦
in the sense that most people in the world donāt own a phone.
Most people in the world do own a phoneā¦ About 75% of the global populationā¦ Itās just that most use it to access the internet, write mails or, you know, call peopleā¦
As your study says, young people do listen to music on their phones. It even surprises me a bit that they only listen to 44% of their music on their phone, but otherwise, no objection. But not every smartphone user is a young personā¦ And even those that do use their phone to listen to music, not all of them listen with headphones. Many use it to play music in their car, or connect it to speakers, or even use their built in speakers, etc.
I think youāre looking at yourself and thinking that everyone is using a phone the same way you do.
I used to, but the thing is, I do actually listen to music on my phone. Not as much as I used to, but I still do from time to time. And many in my immediate environment do too. But overtime, I realized that most people donāt use their phone the same way I do, especially older people and non-technical savy people. Most listen to music in their car, or on the radio.
In reality people were used to just plugging their headphones into heir phone and now they canāt.
In reality, most people simply did not really care very muchā¦ And more importantly, virtually nobody cares todayā¦
New standard was pushed on them and the only reason was to make some extra money on AirPods.
Correct, and virtually everyone just shrugged and accepted it because most people did not care all that muchā¦
So yeah, people will move on in the end but they are right to complain.
My dude, people have already moved on years agoā¦ Apple removed the jack in 2017ā¦ Which is why I think itās ridiculous that people still act as if this is a controversial issue, let alone a dealbreaker, looking towards the futureā¦
Can u name a solution for this that doesnāt involve replacing dongles constantly
No, but I donāt get why anybody owes you a solutionā¦ We are talking about smartphones here, not professional audio devicesā¦ Most people donāt care about using professional studio headsets with their smartphone, so I donāt understand why you expect smartphone manufactureres bending themselves over backwards just to satisfy a small minority of people like you when that would mean that 90% of people now have a plug that they never useā¦
This is how it should be done: you introduce new, better standards, people switch and when itās actually obsolete (no one is using it any more) you remove it.
I think there is a fair argument to be made that back when apple pushed away from it, it was forced. I personally didnāt care, but I understand why some people did.
But thatās not what we are talking about, we are talking about todayā¦ Whatās done is doneā¦
People were (and are) still using mini jacks
Most people werenāt and certainly arenātā¦ The people who still cling to the jack never seem to understand this, but most smartphone users simply donāt care about audio quality on their phoneā¦ Most people donāt even listen to music on their phoneā¦ And among those who do, most donāt care or even notice the loss of quality with wirelessā¦ And for the few who care, there are alternatives, such as adaptersā¦
And just as a reminder, we are talking about the upcoming fairphone 5, a device that has the goal of lasting 10 yearsā¦ There is no reasonable justification for putting a port on it that has by now virtually disappeared from the smartphone market and that most people would never useā¦
Some people will just swallow propaganda, and defend corporations even going against their own interests.
Or maybe some people just donāt care about using their smartphone as a premium audio device? The audio jack on a smartphone servers no purpose to me, it hasnāt for years before smartphone manufacturers started moving away from it. Itās nothing more than a unused plug that can potentially break and whether you like it or not, most people nowadays have the same opinion as meā¦
There was a discussion to be had back when apple started to push for it, one can even argue that this was forced by apple before itās time. But we arenāt talking about that, we are talking about today, about what should happen with this upcoming phone that is supposed to be functional for 10 yearsā¦
The idea that they should reintroduce a standard that has since almost completely disappeared in the smartphone world because a small minority of people want to connect professional studio headphones that are about as expensive as the smartphone itself is absolutely ridiculousā¦
No, just because you say āit is obsoleteā doesnāt make it so.
Itās not obsolete because I say so, itās obsolete because it has no function that cannot be replaced with USB, an interface that is already present on every modern smartphoneā¦
The headphone jack is an industry standard, has been for decades and will be for much more time
The fact that we have done something in the past or had a certain standard is not a good argument for keeping it indefinitelyā¦
Itās not really a standard
Of course it isā¦ Apart from the Iphone, every smartphone has an USB C interfaceā¦ Yes, it is kinda a mess with differences in quality etc, but as far as the interface goes, USB C is the standard nowadaysā¦
Why should i have a more fragile connector that has to rely on electronics when i can use a cable that i can fix myself if it breaks?
Itās already thereā¦ Even if you have a modern smartphone that still has a 3.5mm jack, you still have to have a USB port to charge your phone, etcā¦ So the actual question is:
Why should a modern smartphone have an additional 3.5mm audio jack that servers no function other than audio when that function is already taken care of with USB (or wireless)? I can see an argument if we were talking about audiophile tech, but we are talking about smartphonesā¦
Also, please point me in the directon of some high end headphones with a usb connector. And i mean high end, reference quality, not some brandless crap from amazon.
What do you mean with āhigh endā? āAudiophile stuffā? The focus is obviously on wireless stuff nowadays because most people donāt care that much about audio quality, especially not when listening on their phones, but there are USB headphones:
https://www.androidcentral.com/best-usb-c-headphones
Because Fairphone are arguing in bad faith. If they were really concerned about repairabilty, they would have kept a reliable and easy to fix jack instead of selling overpriced bluetooth earbuds.
Why? Itās just another additional port that can breakā¦ Iām sure selling wireless earbuds played a role in their decision, they are a business after all, but that doesnāt mean that it was the only factor in their decisions or that there arenāt viable reasons to move away from the headphone jackā¦
If anything, this whole ordeal is a constant reminder that corporations are not our friends, and that some people will somehow just blindly defend them.
Of course corporations arenāt our friends, they are businessesā¦ And you can imply that Iām āblindly defending themā if you want, just as I can claim that you are blindly clinging to an outdated standard that has by today virtually completely disappeared in the smartphone world and that there would be no benefit in bringing it backā¦
First: nothing you buy will ever be free from exploitation under this system.
Ok but again, even if you think so, there are still different degrees of exploitation. Saying ānothing I buy will ever be free from exploitationā can also be used as an argument not to care about exploitation at allā¦
buying one product over another will make no difference in society and the world.
Of course it willā¦ You can argue that the difference it makes is so small that it is essentially 0, but it still makes a differenceā¦
but they never manage to end the harmful production pattern that these companies were applying in the first place.
Just because you buying a more sustainably produced smartphone doesnāt solve all the problems in the world doesnāt mean that it has 0 impactā¦
In the end, conscious consumption only serves to feel good (falsely) about yourself.
No, it also demonstrates a way to improve something, even if that improvement is minusculeā¦ It also shows the potential issues and problems that come with itā¦ I would never claim that somebody buying a fairphone is changing the world, of course that would be ridiculous. Individual consumer choices indeed donāt have a big impact on systemic issues.
with an apple-esque āyou are doing it wrongā attitude
You make it seem as if it was just apple that wants to get rid of the 3.5mm jack in the smartphone market, which is simply not trueā¦ I donāt care for apple at all and I donāt see what apple has to do with this discussionā¦ That discussion has already been had, back when the fairphone 4 was released, but some people still make the exact same arguments as in the years beforeā¦
focusing on the actual subject matter - the 3.5mm jack itself
The subject isnāt whether the 3.5mm jack itself is a viable standardā¦ The subject is if it is a viable standard for modern smartphonesā¦ And by now, the direction is clearā¦
I donāt see the 3.5mm jack disappearing completely anytime soon, but in the modern smartphone world, I donāt see a reason why we should cling to the 3.5mm jack when we already have USB as a standard that has the same functionalityā¦ Especially now, when the switch has already happenedā¦
Hereās why I donāt feel as if bluetooth or dongles are an appropriate replacement
Great, but can you also tell me why USB cable headphones are not an appropriate replacement? This is what I find so frustrating about this discussion, people always pretend that the options are either keeping the 3.5 mm headphone jack forever or using bluetooth headphonesā¦
How is it obsolete, I understand a lot of people not needing it but all Audiophile products
In my opinion, itās obsolete or outdated standard when it comes to modern smartphones.
Iād rather have that instead of a additional adapter to connect my iems.
Of course adapters are not an optimal solution, but again, USB headphones are a thingā¦ I definitely see the argument for wired headphones over wireless headphones, but I donāt see a reason why we should use 3.5 mm audio when we can simply use USB, which is an interface that is already the standardā¦
obsolete (adjective) No longer in use.
And once more it turns into an argument about definitionsā¦ I thought it was clear from context, but Iām using āobsoleteā here to mean āold fashionedā or āoutdatedā, a perfectly viable way to use the word āobsoleteā if you ask meā¦ And I mainly used it because as I mentioned, this discussion was settled with the previous fairphoneā¦ Perhaps a better word to use is redundant and/or outdated.
The fact that I can go to literally any electronics store and choose from dozens of different 3.5mm jack headphones
The jack has been THE standard for decades, arguably centuriesā¦ Frankly, I am surprised how fast the smartphone world switched. But of course it doesnāt disappear over night, but that doesnāt make it any less outdated/obsolete or whatever word you want to use hereā¦ And there will still be viable headphones with the 3.5 mm audio jack, just not in the smartphone worldā¦ Thatās why I wrote āthe standard is obsolete when it comes to modern smartphonesāā¦
The 3.5 mm jack is going to disappear from the smartphone world completely. Will it still be useful in some other cases? Sure, I donāt see a viable replacement in some parts of the audio world. But in the smartphone world, where every single mm has an impact, it is, in my opinion, simply obsolete, especially when you already have other interfaces built in that essentially can do the same thing alreadyā¦ Itās just additional space being used that is not neededā¦
Yes, with time more and more people will buy USB-C headphones, it will become a standard
It already is a standard and it has been a standard for almost 10 years by nowā¦
phones makers, following Apples stupid idea, started doing it first.
Of course they did, nobody wanted to be first to challenge a standard that was always the norm with portable devices, but no smartphone manufacturer wants a plug in their device that is unnecessary or redundant, which is why most followed once the first major player made the move.
Why start removing jack where they are used the most?
Because at the end of the day, itās useless spaceā¦ And I get it, switching a standard, especially a standard that is so widely used, is always annoying for some time-period. But the switch started 7 years agoā¦
People complain because with phones they are losing function
No, people complain because itās a change and change is annoyingā¦ There is no actual loss of function, the audio jack doesnāt have any function that USB doesnāt have.
The headphone jack is an inexpensive small connector
Itās still an unnecessary addition to modern smartphones that has an impact on design, etcā¦
offers far better quality than bluetooth does
And once again, you ignore what I wrote in my comment and try to turn this discussion into a discussion about āwires vs wireless/bluetoothā when itās obviously notā¦
As for the usb adapters, those are an extra point of failure and easy to misplace.
If using an adapter is too much of a hassle for you, get a wired USB headphoneā¦ Itās funny, you pretend that the only viable options are either bluetooth or an obsolete standard. We already have a new standardā¦ We had it for decades nowā¦ And itās already built into and used with virtually any modern smartphone. But no, because you are used to your old standard, you demand that the old standard is still used in addition to the new standardā¦
If Sony can keep the jack on all their devices
This isnāt about what we could and couldnāt doā¦ We could go back to using cassettes if we wanted to, there just isnāt a good enough reason to do it as far as most people are concernedā¦
Look at your comment, you canāt give me a good reason for your argument. Your only argument is ābut itās not that much of a hassleā and āeveryone used it in the past so we should continue using itāā¦
You donāt like the jack? You can just keep using bluetooth.
I can just use bluetooth, or I can just use USB. So can you.
But can you give me one argument why we should, in addition to having both bluetooth and USB interfaces on our smartphones, have an additional plug using a standard from the 1950s that we can ONLY use for audio when we already have to have a USB plug that can also be used for audio?
Funny you say this because Iām using one as I write this.
You using obsolete technology doesnāt make it any less obsoleteā¦
Because simply plugging in my headphones into the phone
Why do you keep trying to turn this discussion into a discussion of wireless vs wired? Iām not saying wires are obsolete, Iām saying the 3.5 mm standard is obsolete when it comes to modern smartphones because itās a standard from the literal 1950s (which is ultimately based on a standard from the 1800s)ā¦
I donāt have a 3.5 mm headphone jack, yet I can simply plug my wired headphones in using a wire too and just use it without bluetoothā¦ And I can use the same standard plug you too have in your phone alreadyā¦ Why do we need an additional interface just for headphones when I can use the one that I already need to have in the first place?
Thereās not such a thing like ethical consume under capitalism.
Whatās the conclusion of this claim? That we shouldnāt consume anything at all? That it doesnāt matter what we consume as it all is equally unethical?
Even if you believe that all consumption is unethical, there are still differences in impact and effect depending on what we consume and how much we consume.
It isnāt environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.
Of course not, but who is urging people to replace their new/working smartphone with a fairphone?
The new costs above $600 and the old ones costs around $400. This is a bunch of money
From a price/quality perspective, the fairphone has always been ābadāā¦ You pay the price of a upper mid smartphone and get older mid tech. Thatās because the fairphoneās main appeal is itās modularity and their focus on āsustainableā production, which of course has itās price.
If your main focus is price and affordability, the fairphone is a bad choice.
No, they are not essentialā¦ And this isnāt a discussion about wireless vs wired earbudsā¦ USB headphones/earphones are a thing, the fact that you donāt like wireless is not an excuse to demand that an ancient and obsolete standard should be reinstated when you have plenty of options to use wired devices without a 3.5 mm headphone jackā¦
This isnāt a discussion about wireless vs wired though, this is a discussion about whether or not an ancient standard that has already been replaced should be reintroduced just because some people have been using that standard for a long timeā¦
There are USB wired hearphones, there are even adaptors for your old 3.5 mm jack devices, so how is this about wireless vs wired?
Yeah wtf was that comment and how is it upvoted? Sure, OP doesnāt need to take shit and can fight back, but āruining peopleās lifesā? Conspiring with other people to āmake him wish he was never bornā? Gerting him fired? How is that supposed to be useful? How does that solve anything?