While rebutting another post here on Lemmy, I ran into this. This says exactly what I want to say.
I am not a friend of Bidenās Administration. I think they drug their feet over a variety of things ranging from holding Trump and his goons accountable for January 6th through rulemaking on issues like OTC Birth Control and abortion rights, and yes, I think heās too quick to please big business. But then I remember what the alternative is, and ā¦ well, disappointed in Biden or not, Iām voting for him. Because my wife is a Black bisexual goth woman, four strikes under Team Pepeās tent. And I have my own strikes for marrying her as a White dude, and respecting her right to not have kids since she doesnāt want them is another strike against me. And I care about my Non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, and Minority friends, and will never willingly subject them to Team Pepe.
If you think the system is failing us now, you must have been asleep from 2017 through 2020, especially for the part where unmarked, literally secret as in unknown, police came in and abducted people protesting the murder of a Black dude, and beat the shit out of them before releasing them. The system REALLY failed us then.
I get it. You think the Democrats donāt represent your issues in the Congress. I donāt agree with that, as a good half of the achievements listed here benefit the little guy in one way or another, but yeah. Biden answers to the moneyed class, and that is bipartisan. But you only get 26 out of 100 people in the room to flat out come out and say āYeah, Iām with that guy,ā pointing to you. In the polls, you might net another 25 people, and 49 people vote for the R in this accursed D and R duopoly we call our government. But pay attention to those numbers. You canāt afford to lose a lot of people. If Jill Stein picks off 3 of your 51 people, itās 49 Trump, 48 Biden, 3 Stein, and all 51 of the anti-Trump voters suffer with Trump. Those are the rules the game is played by.
As I said to the other person arguing that itās wrong to expect people to vote for people who donāt give them exactly what they want, I agree. We need better choices. But there are smart ways to go about doing this, and dumb ways to go about doing it. And allowing the authoritarian jerk in isnāt just a dumb way to go about doing it. Itās a dumb and cruel way. And understand if youāre a White Liberal choosing to vote Third Party or stay home and not vote Joe Biden the Genocidal Monster: you are benefiting from your White Privilege. You, like me, can keep your head down and pretend to be a Loyal Member of the Race, a Good American who pays your taxes and salutes the flag. You can scrub your Social Media posts and hide behind your anonymity on places like Lemmy, and go about your life. You will not be the first put into the cages by the Trump ICE. You will not be the first rounded up and deported to a foreign land with no citizenship. You will not be the first detained by the military during protests. Many, many people will pay the price for your privilege of voting third party or staying home because you wonāt vote for no āgenociderā. But remember two things First, you will have brought the genocide you say you oppose onto American shores. Second, once they are done with the migrants, the transgender people, the gays, the āsinfulā women protesting their rights to get a safe abortion, and so on, thereāll be nobody left to protect you when they turn their attention to you.
Again. Biden aināt no bed of roses. But one of two people will win in 2024, just like one of two people would win in 2020, and one of two people would win in 2016. I consider you all who voted Stein or Johnson in 2016 or stayed home in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to be responsible for what Trump did in 2017 through 2020, and if Trump wins in 2024, Iāll hold you all accountable for what happens in 2025 and beyond.
tl;dr - The system is broken but we still have to pretend it isnāt because otherwise its brokenness will allow terrible things to happen and the people who do those things will face no repercussions.
What do yāall think is going to happen when Trump wins?
No, you can either use the broken system and try to minimize the damage done (by voting for Biden) or you can stomp your feet and refuse to use the system by not voting, or voting 3rd party, and in doing so allowing Trump to get reelected which will do great harm to you and everyone else who isnāt named Trump. Itās really a simple choice. Meanwhile, work to change the system. Join your local political party and support progressive candidates who also want to change the system. Hell, run for local office yourself and fight to change the system.
You have a an angry bear charging at you your family and thereās no where to run. All you have is a dull knife. Do you try and fight off the bear or do you throw up your hands and scream itās not fair while the bear kills your family?
Nowhere in my post did I say anything about voting.
Just keep pretending that this is a valid and legitimate government just like all the other centrists.
Fuck me for wanting something other than a dull knife to protect my family, right?
This is no longer effective rhetoric in 2024
Why should anyone care about you or your opinions? You donāt have the power to āholdā anyone āaccountableā. So donāt pretend that you do
The working class deserves Medicare for All as a right, universal housing as a right, and living wages as a right. The working class has no interest in seeing its money sent to fund genocide in Gaza or a seemingly endless war in Ukraine against Russian aggression.
Unfortunately Biden does not represent the working class, he represents the ruling class, as does Trump. The working class is disillusioned with American bourgeois democracy and their upcoming nonparticipation in the presidential election could quite possibly result in another Trump victory. If that occurs then it will purely be the fault of Biden and the Democratic Party
Straw man argument, those police are not part of the executive branch, nor were they punished or prohibited from doing so again by the new executive.
I think this is ignoring opās main pointā¦ That the inherent problems that are causing the vast majority of our problems have gone largely unaddressed by both the democratic and Republican party. COVID marked the largest wealth transfer from the middle and lower class to the rich in our nationās history, and we werenāt doing so great before that. So unless Biden is hell bent on a very progressive tax scheme that would transfer more of that hoarded money back into the systemā¦ I would hesitate to really claim heās doing anything meaningful.
You are conflating someone wanting more choices, or wantinf someone like Joe Biden to change his stance/policy based on what the vast majority of his voters want.
The complaint isnāt that Joe Biden isnāt exactly what I want, itās that every time someone lays valid criticism at his feet and army of simps comes out to defend him with comparisons to trump.
Again, op didnāt say that he was going to vote third party, he just made valid complaints. In stead of saying, well yeah, we should probably change our position on that, you equated his complaint to racism.
Again, a strawman argument, mixed with some unprompted race baiting. I for one am not white, and have several complaints with Joe Biden and his presidency.
Which is inherently the problem. If progressive voters are staying at home, itās not the fault of the voter. Itās the fault of the democratic party for claiming a geriatric center right is the best the party has to offer.
This is like blaming the progressive party for Hillary loosing, despite polling worse than Bernie in swing states. And despite her ignoring Michigan on the campaign trail.
This is why Democrats loose elections, because they would rather loose running a center right than win with an actual left leaning candidate.
My vote is inconsequential, living in a deep red state and what have you. But, Iām not mystified why people would stay home or vote third party. Itās upsetting, but my discontent is largely aimed at the party who refuses to change based on their constituents wants/needs. That when I have complaints about their neoliberal economics, or their participation in an ethnic cleansing, I get told by some white liberal that Im just ābenefitting from my (non-existent)white privilegeā.
The police I was speaking of with the line 'unmarked, literally secret as in unknown, police came in and abducted people protesting the murder of a Black dude` referred to the Federal agents that abducted and abused people in Seattle protesting the police you are mentioning murdering a Black dude. Before you throw an ad-hominem masquerading as an accusation of logical fallacy, maybe try reading the entire damn sentence and understanding what it says?
Because you have one of two options, Biden or Trump, in the upcoming election, and if Biden doesnāt win, Trump will, and my argument is that will be WORSE. If youāre REALLY interested in holding Biden accountable, you should be turning out in EVERY election, and voting the progressive in the primary, and the Democrat in the general. But know itās an uphill battle. Only 26 of America can be cajoled into labelling themselves a Liberal, let alone a Progressive, and 74% of America, when asked what they are, pick Moderate or Conservative. Iāll come back to that in a bit.
To borrow Bidenās phrasing for this, what a load of malarkey. Again, try reading the whole thing. If youāre not White, not only was this not directed at you, if you let Trump get into office, you just committed an own-goal. Then again, you can be anything you want on the Internet, where the Men are Men, the Women are Men, the Children are FBI Agents, and nobody, and I mean nobody knows Iām a cat, so itās not like a White Conservative can pretend to be a Black Liberal disillusioned by Biden who will stay home. I mean, I am not saying youāre that guy, but that guy IS out there and so itās my job to tell you if youāre a minority that has run into that āBlack Liberal disillusioned by Bidenā that if you do the stupid thing and stay home or vote Third Party in the General, Trumpās telling you in his own words that heāll be retribution against you for all the times you inconvenienced a White dudeā¦
And here is where I come back to the ratio of Lefties vs. Righties. You canāt convince more than 26% of people to say they are liberals. Donāt we all get a say, including the ~25% of us who will vote a Democrat in but donāt think weāre Liberals? And donāt forget: thatās 26% who say they are Liberals, not Progressives. So even people who share the same label with you may not agree with all your priorities. The United States functions on a consensus building system. You have GOT to convince a large number of people youāre right in order to build the voter coalition that gets you elected. And that means Biden gets to walk tightropes between the various constituencies that got him into office.
Nobody is saying you MUST go vote for Biden. Nobodyās holding a gun to your head and forcing you to hit that button for Biden. Stay home and donāt vote or vote for Jill Stein. Thatās your right as an American! Gawd bless 'murica fuck yeah! But what you donāt have a right to do is announce that choice, or even hint of that choice, without somebody like me pulling up and pointing out the glaring flaw in your plan. Itās not a good plan. Itās a STUPID plan and you are STUPID for coming up with it. The good plan is to start RIGHT FUCKING NOW and put your money and your body where your mouth is and support progressives across your state in Primary elections, and have conversations with the 40% of Americans who donāt like labels like āLiberalā or āConservativeā why they should like your label and convince them that your answers really ARE the right answers and that they should vote with your guy or gal despite the big money moderate squishy dem saying they arenāt. It works! Look at Ocasio-Cortez! TYT gets this, and they understand why Team Blue is the only answer. Team Red made it clear that āVoting for the perfect candidate in the closest Major Party Primary, then voting for the winner of that Primary in the General, and keeping the heat on the winnerā WORKS. Thatās how they went from Corporatist Party 2 to Corporatist Party 2 with engaged base to Team Pepe in a matter of 20 years. You should have started that playbook back in 2000 as well, but like they sayā¦the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, and the second best time is RIGHT NOW.
Start by holding your nose and voting Biden, because Trump
willHAS destroyed everything you care for and promises to double down if he wins in November.And with what authority can presidents order federal agents to secretly arrest US citizensā¦? My point still stands. The president is not in charge of federal officers working the streets, Trump had nothing to do with that, they were just doing cop shit, they are still doing cop shit.
No shit. That doesnāt mean I have to pretend the old man is a decent person or president. If you want progressive changes you have to be willing to share your discontent. If the old man thinks everyone is happy with his ethnic cleansing, why would he stop?
Lol, Iām willing to bet Iāve been voting for longer than youāve been an adult. And like I said, it doesnāt really matter who I vote for in my locality, my state literally doesnāt have a Democrat in anything higher than the city office.
Oh, Iām sorry I didnāt know that the people of color could not criticize the president without being a race betrayerā¦
Lol, Iām not black either. Pretty typical of white liberals to only think in a dichotomy of just black and white, and primarily only around election seasonā¦
You do understand that youāve done nothing but prove my point right? I didnāt say I wouldnāt vote for the guy, I just said we should be able to criticize him without people like you implying it is racist to do so.
A single study that only details how people feel about loaded political definitions is hardly an argument. Democrats overwhelmingly approve of increasing taxes on the wealthy, of reacting to our rapid climate change, to not involving ourselves with a genocide, and to policies like Medicare for all.
Americans are just overwhelmingly undereducated when it comes to political theory and language.
Lol, what have you been doing all over this thread? All I did was criticize the man and you essentially called me a race betrayer, and simultaneously doubted my ethnicityā¦
Lol, you really took that study as a literal reflection of American demographicsā¦ Did you ever think that maybe people donāt like labeling themselves?
Also, Iāve been involved in organizing in local politics for nearly two decades now. Mostly just working with NGO once the democratic party died in the state, but that happened fairly recently.
Again, my entire point was that progressives should be able lay legitimate criticism towards the president without being lectured too about party loyalty. And that it is not an accomplishment to only be considered a decent president when compared to quite possibly the worst president in the history of the country.
You response was to become a petulant little child, who was so self righteous they thought they could whitesplain racial politics to a person on color. Bravo.