Lol no, but as long as you’re asking what I want: I want a system that can provide actual choices, rather than force a choice nobody wants.
Well voting third party, even if that party managed to succeed, will not accomplish what you claim to want.
We’ve had third parties that were successful in the past, guess what happened to the old party? It was displaced and became electorally irrelevant and then we were back to two parties again.
So how does voting for third party do anything to further any change to the current system toward one you’re talking about?
This really isn’t that complicated. The country doesn’t run a two-party system because of arbitrary or conspiratorial reasons, it runs one because the system’s structure produces two parties.
Are we having two different conversations? Did you read what I wrote?
I’m not advocating voting third party, nor am I rationalizing a two party system as some type of conspiracy.
I was simply stating a desire for a system that actually produces real choices instead of the one we currently have that forces a choice nobody wants. How we get to that is another discussion, but frankly, we can’t have that discussion when one party is panicking about loosing voters who are dissatisfied with the choices on offer because (i’m looking at you here) every statement of dissatisfaction is interpreted as subterfuge.
Last I checked, I’m not Biden and so I’m not panicking about “loosing” voters.
I learned for the final time in 2016 that the voters in this country are determined to take it to the brink of disaster every 4-8 years no matter what absurdity is carried into the office by the R behind his name.
I just genuinely don’t understand the positions of third party voters nor their apologists (I’m looking at you here).
Last I checked, I’m not Biden and so I’m not panicking about “loosing” voters.
So you’re not critiquing 3rd party voters for spoiling their vote and letting Trump take the white house? What other reason would you disagree with voting 3rd party?
I just genuinely don’t understand the positions of third party voters nor their apologists (I’m looking at you here).
I actually think you’re selling yourself short here - I think you do understand, you just disagree with the risk they’re willing to take in their pursuit.
What other reason would you disagree with voting 3rd party?
Because it will in no way help achieve any of the things they claim to want.
Which is why I don’t understand their position nor those who apologize for them.
Third parties and their voters are just another sideshow in the American three-ring electoral circus, and I genuinely don’t understand how people view them as anything other than that.
Because it will in no way help achieve any of the things they claim to want.
this isn’t true, it shows there is a real caucus of active votes who are disenfranchised by the two parties. Whenever there is a breakout 3rd party, there is usually a period of policy realignment in the larger caucuses to pull them back in.
What I think you mean is that it doesn’t achieve any electoral outcome, especially one that denies office to a fascist asshole we all oppose. And while that’s not an outcome anybody really wants, it does provide an opportunity to bring the democrats to the table when they wouldn’t ordinarily be willing, which makes threatening to do so particularly effective this cycle.
What I think you mean is that it doesn’t achieve any electoral outcome, especially one that denies office to a fascist asshole we all oppose.
Nope, that does not cover everything. A lot of people will say “we need more parties, and we should encourage more parties” just like you were saying two posts up and they’ll use that as their reason for voting third party as if that in any way helps improve the short-term or the long-term viability for a national third party that does not just wind up becoming a half-plank (if that) in one of the existing two party’s platform.
People voted for Jill Stein and Gary Johnson in 2016 and it did nothing to advance the national viability of the Green or Libertarian parties.
In addition (as you acknowledge), they also did nothing to advance the cause of either the Green or Libertarian party in terms of actual policy. Republicans became less Libertarian as a result of their 2016 win (adding record amounts to the deficit and debt, cracking down on weed users, becoming notably more authoritarian, and even gasp enacting new gun regulations), and the Republican-led government (of course) worked explicitly against Green party principles.
Three-party system advocates that try to take a “vote-only” or even “make my own party” (with blackjack and hookers) approach to achieving a viable, national 3rd party are misguided clowns.
Well voting third party, even if that party managed to succeed, will not accomplish what you claim to want.
We’ve had third parties that were successful in the past, guess what happened to the old party? It was displaced and became electorally irrelevant and then we were back to two parties again.
I was very clearly not describing our current system
So how does voting for third party do anything to further any change to the current system toward one you’re talking about?
This really isn’t that complicated. The country doesn’t run a two-party system because of arbitrary or conspiratorial reasons, it runs one because the system’s structure produces two parties.
Are we having two different conversations? Did you read what I wrote?
I’m not advocating voting third party, nor am I rationalizing a two party system as some type of conspiracy.
I was simply stating a desire for a system that actually produces real choices instead of the one we currently have that forces a choice nobody wants. How we get to that is another discussion, but frankly, we can’t have that discussion when one party is panicking about loosing voters who are dissatisfied with the choices on offer because (i’m looking at you here) every statement of dissatisfaction is interpreted as subterfuge.
Last I checked, I’m not Biden and so I’m not panicking about “loosing” voters.
I learned for the final time in 2016 that the voters in this country are determined to take it to the brink of disaster every 4-8 years no matter what absurdity is carried into the office by the R behind his name.
I just genuinely don’t understand the positions of third party voters nor their apologists (I’m looking at you here).
So you’re not critiquing 3rd party voters for spoiling their vote and letting Trump take the white house? What other reason would you disagree with voting 3rd party?
I actually think you’re selling yourself short here - I think you do understand, you just disagree with the risk they’re willing to take in their pursuit.
Because it will in no way help achieve any of the things they claim to want.
Which is why I don’t understand their position nor those who apologize for them.
Third parties and their voters are just another sideshow in the American three-ring electoral circus, and I genuinely don’t understand how people view them as anything other than that.
this isn’t true, it shows there is a real caucus of active votes who are disenfranchised by the two parties. Whenever there is a breakout 3rd party, there is usually a period of policy realignment in the larger caucuses to pull them back in.
What I think you mean is that it doesn’t achieve any electoral outcome, especially one that denies office to a fascist asshole we all oppose. And while that’s not an outcome anybody really wants, it does provide an opportunity to bring the democrats to the table when they wouldn’t ordinarily be willing, which makes threatening to do so particularly effective this cycle.
Nope, that does not cover everything. A lot of people will say “we need more parties, and we should encourage more parties” just like you were saying two posts up and they’ll use that as their reason for voting third party as if that in any way helps improve the short-term or the long-term viability for a national third party that does not just wind up becoming a half-plank (if that) in one of the existing two party’s platform.
People voted for Jill Stein and Gary Johnson in 2016 and it did nothing to advance the national viability of the Green or Libertarian parties.
In addition (as you acknowledge), they also did nothing to advance the cause of either the Green or Libertarian party in terms of actual policy. Republicans became less Libertarian as a result of their 2016 win (adding record amounts to the deficit and debt, cracking down on weed users, becoming notably more authoritarian, and even gasp enacting new gun regulations), and the Republican-led government (of course) worked explicitly against Green party principles.
Three-party system advocates that try to take a “vote-only” or even “make my own party” (with blackjack and hookers) approach to achieving a viable, national 3rd party are misguided clowns.