Well others have called it shit, pointless and stupid. So let’s not be too hasty, I might just have a dumb take on it. But I really felt like they did it well and told a good story.
The point of TLOU2 was showing that vengeance only creates an endless cycle of vengeance (in my interpretation of it, it’s been a few years since I played so my memory is a bit rusty).
Massive spoilers ahead (TLOU2 is getting an HBO show, so even if you don’t play the games you might not want to spoil it if you like the show).
Edit: I tried to mark this as a spoiler with markdown, but it’s not working on Boost. Unsure if it’s working within Lemmy site or if it’s just a Boost issue.
spoiler
Joel kills Abby’s dad to save Ellie (whether he actually needed to kill the doctor is up for debate). Abby finally catches up to Joel and kills him for payback, Ellie goes to hunt down Abby but discovers along the way that Joel had lied to her and the reason why Abby killed him. :::
Anyway, it’s at this point where Ellie realizes that a) she’s fucking tired, b) all of this pain could’ve been avoided had no one killed anyone, c) Joel wouldn’t have wanted Ellie to throw her happiness away in order to avenge him, and c) she just wants to go live a peaceful life with Dina. So she decides to break out of the cycle and go chill on her farm with Dina.
There are a lot more nuances, but that’s the general gist. What saves TLOU2 from being just another trope that’s discussed in this thread, is how it forces the player to experience both characters’ POV. I absolutely hated Abby when the game switches you over to her playthrough, especially since you start over pretty much (in terms of gear, abilities, etc). But by the end, I really empathized with her struggle and agreed that she was justified in killing Joel. It sucks, I loved Joel, but he fucked up pretty badly and paid the price for his actions.
Sometimes the “good guys” don’t have a happy ending–even when Ellie returns to Dina, she massively suffers from PTSD and won’t ever be the same–and that’s okay in some stories. So I get why that game angered so many fans, but in my opinion it told a more realistic story and is better for it.
Break out of the cycle after unnecessarily severely beating down someone who was literally just being brutally tortured moments ago. I feel the realization would have had more impact pre-beating, that part was just unnecessary and I hate being forced into actions like that in a way that makes it feel like you have a choice but you don’t, just give me a cut scene if I don’t.
You know…thank you for spoiling that.
Because knowing just the first shocker of TLOU2 made me think “This is pretty nonsense.” And I didn’t bother with it after learning that.
But knowing about the theme of recurring violence and how it was directly in response to previous events makes a lot more sense, and I don’t feel as harshly about it!
I still recommend playing the game. Even if you ignore the story, it’s a superior game to the first in terms of better mechanics, better level design, better combat, pretty much better everything from a gameplay standpoint. In my opinion, if it weren’t for Joel being killed, the game would’ve had universal acclaim from those that loved the first game. The fact that there’s a trans side character also pissed off the conservative demographic, too.
In terms of the story, I think it has tremendous character growth by the end of the game. Ellie finally begins dealing with the mountain of baggage she’s had since even before meeting Joel, along with slowly confronting and coming to terms with the complex and conflicted relationship she had with him. Sure, she’s hunting Abby down to kill her for vengeance, but what occurs along the way is a whole rollercoaster of character development and existential crises. Abby also has a similar arc, albeit for different reasons.
Sorry for the long rant, I just think TLOU2 got a way worse wrap than it deserved by much of the gaming community.
Well others have called it shit, pointless and stupid. So let’s not be too hasty, I might just have a dumb take on it. But I really felt like they did it well and told a good story.
The point of TLOU2 was showing that vengeance only creates an endless cycle of vengeance (in my interpretation of it, it’s been a few years since I played so my memory is a bit rusty).
Massive spoilers ahead (TLOU2 is getting an HBO show, so even if you don’t play the games you might not want to spoil it if you like the show).
Edit: I tried to mark this as a spoiler with markdown, but it’s not working on Boost. Unsure if it’s working within Lemmy site or if it’s just a Boost issue.
spoiler
Joel kills Abby’s dad to save Ellie (whether he actually needed to kill the doctor is up for debate). Abby finally catches up to Joel and kills him for payback, Ellie goes to hunt down Abby but discovers along the way that Joel had lied to her and the reason why Abby killed him. :::
Anyway, it’s at this point where Ellie realizes that a) she’s fucking tired, b) all of this pain could’ve been avoided had no one killed anyone, c) Joel wouldn’t have wanted Ellie to throw her happiness away in order to avenge him, and c) she just wants to go live a peaceful life with Dina. So she decides to break out of the cycle and go chill on her farm with Dina.
There are a lot more nuances, but that’s the general gist. What saves TLOU2 from being just another trope that’s discussed in this thread, is how it forces the player to experience both characters’ POV. I absolutely hated Abby when the game switches you over to her playthrough, especially since you start over pretty much (in terms of gear, abilities, etc). But by the end, I really empathized with her struggle and agreed that she was justified in killing Joel. It sucks, I loved Joel, but he fucked up pretty badly and paid the price for his actions.
Sometimes the “good guys” don’t have a happy ending–even when Ellie returns to Dina, she massively suffers from PTSD and won’t ever be the same–and that’s okay in some stories. So I get why that game angered so many fans, but in my opinion it told a more realistic story and is better for it.
Break out of the cycle after unnecessarily severely beating down someone who was literally just being brutally tortured moments ago. I feel the realization would have had more impact pre-beating, that part was just unnecessary and I hate being forced into actions like that in a way that makes it feel like you have a choice but you don’t, just give me a cut scene if I don’t.
I don’t necessarily fully disagree with you, but I also don’t remember all of the nuances leading up to the final showdown.
You know…thank you for spoiling that. Because knowing just the first shocker of TLOU2 made me think “This is pretty nonsense.” And I didn’t bother with it after learning that.
But knowing about the theme of recurring violence and how it was directly in response to previous events makes a lot more sense, and I don’t feel as harshly about it!
I still recommend playing the game. Even if you ignore the story, it’s a superior game to the first in terms of better mechanics, better level design, better combat, pretty much better everything from a gameplay standpoint. In my opinion, if it weren’t for Joel being killed, the game would’ve had universal acclaim from those that loved the first game. The fact that there’s a trans side character also pissed off the conservative demographic, too.
In terms of the story, I think it has tremendous character growth by the end of the game. Ellie finally begins dealing with the mountain of baggage she’s had since even before meeting Joel, along with slowly confronting and coming to terms with the complex and conflicted relationship she had with him. Sure, she’s hunting Abby down to kill her for vengeance, but what occurs along the way is a whole rollercoaster of character development and existential crises. Abby also has a similar arc, albeit for different reasons.
Sorry for the long rant, I just think TLOU2 got a way worse wrap than it deserved by much of the gaming community.