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I feel bad for the men that get indoctrinated by this guy. Just like a lot of people that get taken in by religion, these people are looking for some understanding or change that really can only come from within but the church is promising that religion is the only way.
These men don’t understand that there is no black and white/ universal version of “manliness”. We all have to decide for ourselves what “being a man” means.
I go with a simple definition: as someone who was born a man and continues to identify as a man, my feeling is that, anything I do is “manly” because I am a man. Doesn’t matter if it’s sewing, hunting, or eating soup (which the preacher in the article seems to think is not manly)
Being a man is eating soup and being able to say “fuck you, I like soup.”
And also being so confident, you don’t need another man to tell you you’re a big strong masculine man.
In college a woman remarked “I don’t know many men manly enough to wear a pink shirt.”
She hasn’t seen rugby players in the south of France.
We need feminism but for men (which is a thing that kinda already exists but we need more)
In my opinion, as a man, feminism is for men. Feminism, at its core, is saying that strict gender roles are made up, and anyone is capable of being anyone. Men had a lot of freedom to do this already, though obviously a lot of things weren’t allowed, like homosexuality, playing with other gendered clothing, or “queerness” in general as it used to be called.
A proper understanding of feminism I think would lead us all to recognizing we are free from the shackles of tradition, though the word makes a lot of people think it’s only helping women, at the expense of men.
this is a nice way to look at it - but feminism isn’t just a vague ideology, it’s also a social movement that is designed for women and populated by women. men are at best allies in that space, and at worst viewed as the enemy, othered, and excluded.
i’ll gladly id as a feminist ideologically but i’m not foolish enough to think i’d be welcomed with open arms at a feminist rally. tolerated? sure. but not part of the group.
I don’t think you’re correct, and I’ve felt welcomed around feminists (though I’ve never been in explicit feminist spaces). Even if you are though, it doesn’t detract from my point. The goals of feminism help men too. If followed to completion, it removes gender roles from being strictly necessary. It allows people to be what they want.
Feminism is part of a larger movement, hence intersectional feminism. Even that though is part of a larger movement of liberalizing society to accept all people for who they are. Yes, there are also some groups who use feminism to exclude other people (TERFs, for example), but usually if people agree women should be allowed in roles normally reserved for men then gender norms aren’t real and are necessarily oppressive, for everyone.
nothing that you’ve said here contradicts my point and you’re demonstrating a profound misunderstanding of intersectionalism.
I’ve been welcomed in feminist spaces. Don’t try to take center stage or make it about you and you’ll be fine in the vast majority of them.
if you truly believe that, it says more about your own social awareness than it does about the feminist movement.
I don’t know if I like soup. The only soup I ever had was cambells, and it was awful. But then everybody tells me that cambells is the bottom of the barrel scum of the soup world.
So maybe I just don’t like cambells.
Campbell’s classic chicken noodle hits different when you’re recovering from a bout of norovirus.
But generally yes, canned soup is pretty bad. There’s a ton of soups across most global cuisines, so many so that it’s borderline unbelievable that you’ve never tried a single one.
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Hey, you’re like me. I HATED soup for decades. Can soup BS was disgusting. Soup on the side of my burger, gross.
Then I went to a real soup place. Like all they did was soup. Like professional level soup that’s $8 a cup or $12 a bowl.
My god - it was incredible. I now understand the Soup Nazi bit of why anybody would tolerate that behavior.
I went from clean shaven anti-souper to a god damn soup coke fiend.
Pretty much how I see it. Being “a man” is being comfortable with who you are and not being scared about what others think. Putting a dress on and having “Tea” with your kids during playtime is just as manly as playing football. (And looks hilarious when you’re a 6 ft tall biker looking dude with a beard and hairy legs like me.)
Reminds me of a scene in the Lone Wolf and Cub comic I read when I was younger.
I don’t remember all the details, but there’s a panel where the two most dangerous samurai in all of feudal Japan are camping out before a fight, and some rando is astonished that these high bred, noble, elite warriors are cooking their own rice. One of the two rips into him about self-sufficiency and how there aren’t always servants to do your cooking for you, and what kind of warrior would just starve when he has no servants around?
And what does the article say? Eating soup isn’t manly? WTF? I’d like to hear his rationale for that one, but I’d probably lose a couple of IQ points reading it.
Toxic masculinity is full of shaming men for random things that are arbitrarily defined as not manly. Nothing is more dangerous for a Man than not conforming to masculine gender norms
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This kind of insecurity is intentionally cultivated for the purpose of being exploited. If you can make a man afraid of whatever kind of food you name by declaring it unmanly you can control him.
It’s in the 12 commandments, along with though shaft not draw.liquid with a straw because it looketh like yon penis.
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I think men are going to have to define foe themselves what secure masculinity looks like and how to achieve it.
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Having women friends is generally a good vaccine against this nonsense
Pro tip: if you’re worried about your manliness you should go to therapy not to church.
Church is (almost) free therapy though, problem is that some church leaders want to use believers for their own benefit
Most organized religion is psychological abuse
Probably would also talk hours with amazingly attractive women while in therapy too
I mean, there are ethical boundaries, but already more than a guy trying to find strength outside likely has
Watching gay porn is twice as manly as watching straight porn.
Nothing gayer than having sex with women.
- various right winged influencers
I’m actually double straight because I was straight when I was supposedly a guy and now I’m a woman and still straight. checkmate, low T beta cucks bad to the bone guitar riff
sounds like a porno theme.
that’s like 3 layers of scam: church, manliness and absurd levels
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This wispy-bearded Texan is in the vanguard of a movement urging conservatives to relocate to Russia. Last August, Putin introduced fast-track shared values visa for those fleeing Western liberalism.
Oh no … don’t do that. Us lefties would hate if all our manly men left us to deal with these Haitians eating our dogs alone. That would trigger and own us so much.
Well, they’ll probably have manlier problems to deal with since moving to Russia is leopard eating your face speedrun, with examples such as Russel Bentley or that one conservative Canadian family that sold their everything to move to Russia and got their money stolen by Russian banks.
Zero sympathy. Zero.
They’re probably just hunting for a construct. I’m sure if anyone actually does move to Russia they’ll just be given a gun and told to shoot ukrainians
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I really wish Russia would get it’s shit together. It’s a beautiful country that just goes on forever. I’ve met Russians that are just awesome. I would love to go on vacation there, or even retire there one day. Buy a little dacha on a river next to some sleepy little village. But the politics, fucking Putin, fucking oligarchs…
The concerning part is the US is starting to look more and more like Russia in all the bad ways
I don’t think it’s starting, I think the mask is just slipping off. Russia used violence, America has been using financial violence…
Has there ever been a period in history where Russians haven’t been oppressed by their government or the church?
1991-1993, 1906-1914
While the dissolution of the Soviet union was great for the world, you would not have wanted to be a citizen of Russia living in Russia at that point. I have family members who still live there and did then and it was utter chaos and also created local power vacuums that got filled with local mafia style gangs or local police who also just acted like local mafia style gangs.
But yeah, as far as the federal government not shitting in Russians, that would be a proper window of time
Well, now it’s not utter chaos because one gang won.
Imagine being deranged enough to actually take that deal, damn
15 dumbasses in East Bumblefuck: *do something*
BBC: A NEW GLOBAL TREND?!?!
I wish these shitbricks were actually fleeing to Russia at the levels this article is trying to portray.
It’s propaganda. We’re trying to make it look like every man’s reaction because they want to years argumentum ad popularum try and make it so
JFC if someone is this worried about their “manliness” or lack thereof, there’s really no hope for them.
Are you talking about me? How do you know? It’s pure rumors anyway! I’m extremely manly, OK? My car makes a lot of noise, so yeah. I’m heterosexual btw
And yet you’re describing a wide percentage of young men
Who? People keep fucking saying there’s a lot but all I see is a vocal minority? You see 1/200 and you focus on them?
It’s a vocal minority that is trying to appear bigger than they are with propaganda
That propaganda helped Trump win the Gen Z vote. I wouldn’t say it’s a minority when factoring only youth. Plus there are plenty of middle aged and older men that have fragile masculinity.
Only 75, per the article. No one writes articles like this about women getting into Wicca even though it’s hundreds of times more common
What’s wrong with Wicca? The women I’ve met who were into that were very nice and a ton of fun and the “worst” of them were just delightfully odd. Unlike the strutting asshole men which the OP concerns who are all up in themselves and their supposed “masculinity”. FWIW, I was an athlete when I was young and met and defeated more than my share of these jackasses. Lost to few too. But that’s sport. And unlike those guys, I learned the right lessons from sport. They never will.
Having once been a young man, there’s a period where one questions their role in the world and accordingly acts the fool before figuring it out. I had an upbringing with more than adequate parents and education that helped me through that period without me making an ass of myself often enough to be singled out as being an exceptional ass. I am lucky. Some people aren’t and they act out. And those that are exceptional asees act out and are really self important and noisy. Mostly just to hear themselves and drown out the voices of those who are telling them to stop being such an ass.
doggedly backed the invasion of Ukraine, calling it a Holy War
Yeah I don’t really give a shit about their concept of the male gender. Apparently it involves fathering many children, so that Russia doesn’t run out of soldiers for the hundred years of glorious holy war it will take to defeat NATO and save the world. If you really want to reach the ultimate heights of manliness, try wearing eye shadow, practicing embroidery, and watching Hello Kitty while remaining confidently masculine.
By the way, Ciril’s deranged proclamations of “holy war” are ridiculous. Ukraine is also an Orthodox country.
Putin needs an army to meet his growing desires for power
If you have to be told how to be “manly” then you
probablydefinitely aren’t whatever the fuck you even think “manly” is.Manliness has always been a scam.
Source: me having grown up in the Balkans where manliness tends to reign supreme as a life goal
Manliness is an ideal intentionally placed out of reach. An insecurity to be exploited
Only if your conception of masculinity is stupid. There are plenty of manly role models out there, we’ve just largely decided not to pay them much attention.
The manliest man I can think of: Norm Abram. His achievements:
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Made a living wearing flannel shirts
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Excellent beard
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Distinguished service award from the American Academy of Ophthalmology
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Built a sailboat
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said “Not roman orgy, roman ogee” on national television and got away with it
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If you step out of line with what is considered acceptable (and The most toxic insecure men incent things to be afraid of out of nowhere) you get harshly punished. Learned this the hard way growing up trans
Trans man or woman?
In my experience, transfemme although trans men have had interesting things to say on the topic
I guess you got off the hamster wheel at some point. I imagine trans men being faced with this stuff… That’s not to say there’s no toxic stuff on the femme side of things.
Oh yeah we got problems on the girl’s side bit at least women aren’t afraid soybeans is gonna take away their masculinity
Word
It’s stupid on so many levels.
First off, it implies there is some sort or series of social masculine trait(s) that are in some way desirable. It gets even more stupid when this turns into expectations, like “you’re a man, you should X”.
It’s kind of sad but not unsurprising that there’s an industry trying to capitalize on the resulting insecurities.
I think it was a positive aspect of the MGTOW idea to reject these expectations and do your own thing.
I think mgtow pretty quickly became an incel movement, at least from what I saw on reddit.
That doesn’t seem surprising. They both are misogyny plus not getting laid
Well like the other commenter said, it was ostensibly about guys just focusing on themselves and breaking out of the toxic trait of defining yourself by whoever is on your arm. That in itself is fine, and hell, even helpful. The issue is that it naturally attracted incels trying to be the aloof sigma that’s too cool to bother with silly women.
This is a good movie, if you don’t mind the blood and gore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Northman
It follows the life story of a manly man… not something many would truly pursue for themselves even if they had the opportunity.
I was always told to be manly was to show up for those that you love. To be reliable and useful on a day to day basis. All this nonsense about dominance and “independence” is just ridiculous.
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IF you can be shamed into going a Russian church to be manly, you are headed in the opposite direction from the path to manliness - you become a pussy who can only follow.
So then it’s womanly to follow? Sounds sexist and lame to me.
I didn’t come here for MORE toxic masculinity and gender shaming. Sort your shit out.
Why does random lemmy user care what you came here for?
I, for one, would like to congratulate whoever conceived this psy-op to get conservatives to move from Texas to Russia. Inspired stuff.
Always fun witnessing another round of people arguing over whose church is dumber.
It’s a hoot. These Ultra Incels think the Orthodox Church is going to hand them a submissive woman. Sounds like their new church is a sausage fest up in there.
probably thier excuse to turn each other on.
Let them become even less dateable, so us lesbians can get all the other girls 👩❤️💋👩
It’s more like we’re going to get the buy girls because they won’t want to date these guys
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