5hrs long. no.
I think they were both very articulate and made compelling points I look forward to seeing what middle ground can be reached
I think most people won’t watch the debate in its entirety. The point of the debate for Ethan was to make new clips to take out context. He will take clips from the debate to continue to claim that Hasan supports sexual violence or claim that Hasan secretly hides swastikas in his video. The point for Ethan is not winning the debate. The status quo sides with Ethan because Ethan’s beliefs align with the status quo. All Ethan has to do is take clips like when Hasan talked about how Ansarallah is fighting against Israel’s genocide in Gaza, erase the explanation, and then say “See, I told you, Hasan supports the Houthis which the US designates as a terrorist organization”. The status quo will consider that to be a win. Right wingers and Zionists have already sided with Ethan, even before the debate had started.
Ethan admitted that his wife is a terrorist during the debate, but he’ll probably deny that. The most depraved thing is that he said that Anne Frank was loved for being a pacifist. Anne Frank was not a pacifist, she was a child. Ethan claimed that Anne Frank did not fight against Nazis because she was against violence and said that if she had fought against Nazis, then he wouldn’t have supported her message. Anne Frank was 15 years old.
Hasan’s approach to the debate is quite different from Ethan. During the debate, Ethan presented a “double nakba” conspiracy theory. Ethan presented the idea that Jewish people were being expelled from many Arab countries at the same time that Israel was doing the Nakba to the Palestinians, to claim what Arab people did to Jewish People was worse than what Israelis did to Palestinians. Hasan compares this conspiracy theory to the WWII “double genocide theory”, where fascists claim that the Soviet Union did a genocide worse than Nazi Germany to downplay the Holocaust. Ethan says that “the Arabs” made Jewish people into Zionists. It’s the classic, “I didn’t want to become a fascist but you made me do it because woke” argument.
Hasan has said that he is getting in contact with historian Avi Shlaim to disprove the “double nabka” conspiracy theory on stream. Avi Shlaim is an Arab Jew, born in Iraq. In 1951, at age 6, Shlaim’s family was part of an exodus of Jewish people from Iraq to Israel. His family forfeited Iraqi citizenship and all of their property. In 1966, Avi Shlaim moved to England and has lived in England ever since. Avi Shlaim is a critic of Zionism. In early 2023, Avi Shlaim published a book “Three Worlds: Memoirs of an Arab-Jew”, which is meant to prove that Israeli Mossad terrorized Jewish people to flee from Iraq by conducting a series of bombings against Jewish people in Iraq from 1950-1951.
The most depraved thing is that he said that Anne Frank was loved for being a pacifist. Anne Frank was not a pacifist, she was a child. Ethan claimed that Anne Frank did not fight against Nazis because she was against violence and said that if she had fought against Nazis, then he wouldn’t have supported her message. Anne Frank was 15 years old.
I didn’t think I’d hear a worse take about Anne Frank than the “Anne Frank was a colonizer” nonsense from Black Hammer.
if she had fought against Nazis, then he wouldn’t have supported her message
HE WOULD NOT SUPPORT ANNE FRANK IF SHE USED VIOLENCE AGAINST THE PEOPLE TRYING TO EXTERMINATE HER!?
but he DOES agree with Israel using violence against Palestine??
What is going on here??
(I actually know what’s going on here)
Badempanada is the real winner. In every single video about Ethan he makes an appearance as the final boss living rent-free in his mind
Not gonna watch it but it kinda makes sense that Hasan, who has had an actual personal relationship with Ethan, would want to talk him down from the pro-Zionist and pro-Palestinian genocide cliff he’s standing on.
I watched it for 15 min and then had anxiety for the next hour. I cut ties with a guy who argued like ethan, he presented himself in a very gentle way but don’t get him on a heated topic, or make him look stupid. Even via Text he was like that. Endless streams of messages and crass behavior.
Didn’t hear of it until recently. Also, why waste time debating that despicable cretin? You’d have a better chance changing the mind of a brick wall than with him. Wasn’t worth hasan’s time from the get go
Wasn’t worth Piker’s time, and I don’t even think his time is that valuable lol
Well I think from Hasans perspective this was a sort of last try to get through to his ex friend. He’s offered to call and talk to Ethan many times and Ethan refuses, so maybe he thought he’d do it Ethan’s way and have it all in the open, hoping he’d be reasonable.
I watched some of it, mostly seems like Ethan Klein is a narcissistic abuser and a racist that is burning a billion bridges. The fact that he has a whole studio team while Hasan is just some guy seals it for me.
I hate how often SV comes up in these things, if I were god I would give an aneurysm to any debate bro that debates SV without having experienced it themselves.
Discussion of Israel SV
Israel’s claims of SV are of course horrifying. Abusers definitely join military units to abuse their power over others, no matter how valorous the military force may be. SV happens in war, the question should always be if it was ordered and left unpunished and uninvestigated by officers and the military command. In many cases, we can see verified claims of Israel military and intelligence services ordering SV upon even civilian prisoners. Can we say the same of Hamas? If so, then we are at a point where both armies are in extreme fault, we must then default to the anticolonial narrative.
And even if Hamas were the savage horde they are depicted as, and Israel is shining white and perfect, does that really excuse the wholesale slaughter of every Palestinian? Of fucking course it doesn’t. The war is clearly lopsided.
I watched the thing almost in its entirety, then again my mental health is at quite low levels so that’s why I can subject myself to such things and enjoy them.
My favourite part was when Ethan started to call Hasan antisemitic for platforming the famous so-called “houthi pirate”, pulling clips and old tweets from a currently 19-20 year/old boy from Yemen whom Hasan interviewed, particularly tweets that come accross as antisemitic with messages like “curse upon all Jews”.
Hasan went on to ask Ethan if he thinks there might be reasons why a 19 year old Yemeni boy who’s only seen violence at the hands of the US Empire (which he criticised heavily in his tweets too) and Israel might be antisemitic, and Ethan refused to engage on that. Then, Hasan brought up Hila (Ethan’s wife) as someone who did her military service in the IDF. For those who don’t know, Hila had an office job at the IDF during her military service at 18-19 years old, and one day she was, and I quote, “bored from her office job” and joined a night raid in Ramallah in which a Palestinian was kidnapped from his home in front of his family.
Ethan made the connection and he asked whether Hasan is calling his wife a terrorist, to which Hasan responds something like “no, I can understand the reasons why somebody socialised in Israel under Israeli propaganda may get to doing something like that at 18 year-old”, but how the wrong thing is that now as an adult living in the US she’s never come clean about it and apologised and that’s wrong. Ethan is incapable of connecting the two dots, and keeps calling the Houthi guy a terrorist.
So yeah, he’ll condemn as terrorist someone who supports military resistance against genocide in Palestine, but won’t do the same against his unrepenting war-criminal wife. I think that portrays best his huge bias towards Zionism, and his victimization and complete inability of self-reflection.
Ethan proved himself to be a stupid racist again
The Anne Frank thing, implying she would be worse if she fought the Nazis, was insane and should be disqualifying
They only love victims if they are dead.
“She should have just complied with the officers commands!” Is a wild response to Anne Frank, especially coming from a Jewish person…
What the fuck. What could be worse in this asshat’s mind than dying in the Holocaust?
Flip this on its head. I guess Isreal is worse off fighting the Palestinians than if they didn’t. Very good, Mr. Klein. Let’s have Isreal surrender and give Palestinians complete control of the region!
I do not understand the point of a debate like this.
Ethan cannot allow his mind to be changed even as he knows he’s in the wrong. So what’s the point?
Hasan was convinced he could do some good for third party observers or “Ethan’s fans”
The third party stuff I don’t know about, but for some reason Hasan thinks Ethan’s audience is still progressive??? He doesn’t realize the progressive members deserted Ethan months and months ago, ironically Ethan’s former fans reached out to Hasan through the H3snark subreddit, but Hasan immediately dismissed them as “obsessed parasocial freaks” which I get, but dude seriously, talk about an unforced tactical error
As a result of that hasty dismissal months ago that resulted in him purging those people from his memory, Hasan is now casing after people who already went to his side
Mike From PA was correct, Hasan should have addressed this shit over a year ago instead of ignoring Ethan’s escalating harassment and blindly defending him all the way up to October
No thoughts and I am planning to keep it that way. It’s pretty damn clear that the zionist ghoul (and his disgusting terrorist wife for that matter) gets themselves hot and heavy from promoting genocide and has no actual interest in debating in good faith (I bet the whole thing had Klein interrupting the other non-stop).
I’m not fucking watching that. You can not make me.
