• tal
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    2 days ago

    If you want to kill a national leader because he does something lawful that you don’t personally agree with, go do in someone yourself in your own country, who I suppose would be Ulf Kristersson.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_boxes_of_liberty

    The four boxes of liberty is a 19th-century American idea that proposes: “There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and cartridge (or ammo). Please use in that order.”

    That is, one speaks out against things one objects to, one votes out leaders one objects to, one goes to the judicial system, and only then does one resort to violence.

    We’ve no issue with speaking out against Trump — I’ve done so many times on here, quite publicly. That has not failed.

    Trump’s tried to ignore an election that he lost, but the system rejected it. That has not failed.

    Trump’s been stopped on a number of occasions by judicial rulings. There are certainly a few questionable cases, like trying to find a legal loophole to not reverse deportions that had occurred by trying to get people outside US jurisdiction, there’s a long list of Presidents who have looked for legal loopholes; Bush Junior tried a very similar tactic with Guantanamo. That has certainly not reached a point where the judicial system is ineffective.

    If all three of those had been rendered inoperative, then and only then would the use of violence against him be warranted.

    James Madison, the Founding Father who drafted the Constitution, addressed the subject in Federalist Paper No. 46:

    https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0261

    The only refuge left for those who prophecy the downfall of the state governments, is the visionary supposition that the federal government may previously accumulate a military force for the projects of ambition. The reasonings contained in these papers must have been employed to little purpose indeed, if it could be necessary now to disprove the reality of this danger. That the people and the states should for a sufficient period of time elect an uninterrupted succession of men ready to betray both; that the traitors should throughout this period, uniformly and systematically pursue some fixed plan for the extension of the military establishment; that the governments and the people of the states should silently and patiently behold the gathering storm, and continue to supply the materials, until it should be prepared to burst on their own heads, must appear to every one more like the incoherent dreams of a delirious jealousy, or the misjudged exaggerations of a counterfeit zeal, than like the sober apprehensions of genuine patriotism. Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the state governments with the people on their side would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield in the United States an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the late successful resistance of this country against the British arms will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprizes of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain that with this aid alone, they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will, and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned, in spite of the legions which surround it. Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors. Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition, that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures, which must precede and produce it.

    You don’t go assassinate someone because he does something that you don’t like. You fight someone if they actually break with democracy.

    • jbrains@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      “Let’s ignore the constitution.” This is fine.

      And then:

      You fight someone if they actually break with democracy.

      What kind of break with democracy the motherfuck are you waiting for?

      Your country in a nutshell. I wouldn’t care if we didn’t catch a cold from you sneezing.