We make logging companies “replant forests” (yes it’s not at all the same as the old growth but it’s something). Why do we let mining companies completely rape the land and replace nothing? It doesn’t even look like they backfill with the unused debris, much less restore topsoil or plant anything.
Here in the UK I know of lots of old mines and quarries that, because the ground is inherently unstable once the mining has finished, the land gets reclaimed as a nature reserve. Think nice walks, wildflowers, native trees, marshlands etc. A lot of effort goes into making habitats for insects, birds and animals.
Whether or not it is all paid for by the mining companies, I don’t know.
It isn’t. I guarantee it.
That’s how we do it here in the US if they’re operating near an urban area. My understanding is that they are required by law to do that in exchange for the permits or something.
Only if the city cares. I’m in a capital city where strip mining occurs within city limits, and they just leave acid pools behind because the thick forests keep people from noticing it
Underground mining and strip mining are very different in the possibilities to recover.
Both underground mining and strip mining will devastate natural and urban areas in Germany for centuries. For the former black coal and iron mining areas they basically have no solution except to keep the pumps running indefinitely as the flooded underground mines would collapse, causing sinkholes and eating the houses on top. For the strip mining, these will be scars on the earth until geology has taken care of it in a few million years.
Well, not 100% on this, but maybe because we’re an overaged society that elects corrupt politicians rather than accept that change in lifestyle is necessary? Or maybe it is the brainwashing of the Springer-press that continues to vilify the Greens. Maybe a mix of both.
Or maybe it is the brainwashing of the Springer-press that continues to vilify the Greens
The German greens are the greatest insult to ecology and progressivism in the history of Earth. Born out of the antinuclear movement and immediately coopted by fossil fuel lobbies, the only thing they’ve done is to encourage MORE coal plants to be opened (due to pushing for the closure of nuclear plants), and supported every single neoliberal anti-welfare budget and every military intervention (think bombing of Yugoslavia, bombing of Libya, invasion of Iraq). They’re seriously one of the worst parties in the EU.
Remind me again, who ordered the nuclear plants to be closed, and who prolonged their runtimes? Who came up with Agenda 2010 and who blocked Bürgergeld being more than a name change?
And if they are one of the worst parties of the EU, I envy your selective reading. We have parties more or less openly advocating for fascism. “SocDems but with a green coat of paint” don’t even make the top ten.
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Axel Springer Verlag bot ↑
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This account is a known pro-russia anti-liberal troll.
Don’t feed it. plonk
Must be convenient being a European lib and discarding everyone further left than you as a “Ruzzian troll bot”. I also haven’t fucking commented or posted in the previous month essentially, if you actually go through my account history, but go ahead with your thought-terminating clichés. Seriously, the “Russian bot” is the “woke” of libs, just a series of words you repeat to discard information that doesn’t suit your preconceived notion or your point of view.
For reference, I’m a Spaniard who voted for Podemos since they appeared in the political spectrum, and militant in a socialist org in my homeland. But whatever floats your boat.
Did not call you a bot, but I have read your comments before and flagged your username as someone who appears left-aligned, but unreasonable, pro russian and anti-NATO when it comes to the russian war of aggression against Ukraine.
This is, I presume also the main point in your opposition to the german Greens, a party very much aligned with a free Ukraine and opposed to russian imperial aggression.
Because from my point of view, it looks like in your worldview everything western, everything touched by the US, everything that opposed the eastern block in any way is tainted by imerialism. Your comments lack any evidence of nuance or understanding that both the west and the east were and are are ruled by horrible people and good people trying their best. I’m forced to fucking both-sides-ism upon reading your history, because your radical positions lack so much dearly needed nuance.
Did not call you a bot
Sorry, assumed that because of the plonk, what did you mean by that then?
pro russian
I’m not “pro-Russian” except in terms of ethnicity. Currently there’s pervasive and state-supported russophobia all over the western world, and I consider myself anti-racist. Regarding the Russian government, not only do I think it’s on a downwards fascist spiral, oppressing women, LGTBQ and minorities, I have loved ones directly suffering under the Putin regime.
You call my lack of nuance, but as a western-european socialist, what’s the nuanced alternative? Supporting the military rearming of the western genocidal empire currently funding genocide and neocolonialism? I’m not “in favour” of the Russian invasion of Ukraine per-se, I just understand that it’s the necessary consequence of imperialist struggle to see who controls the former Soviet block’s sphere of influence. The Russian bourgeoisie, born in the 90s’ plundering of the formerly state-owned economy, won’t accept subservience to North American and Western-European capital, so it naturally revolves against that.
The west has been, despite the agreements of the 90s, pushing NATO further east, and funding and staging colour revolutions all over the former eastern block. Given the current Russian lack of soft power, the only alternative to western control (at best, as in the case of Poland) and colonialism (at worst, as in the case of the Ukraine resource extraction deal) is Russian military intervention. It’s a sad state of affairs, but the Russian bourgeoisie tried to establish economic links with Europe and it wasn’t allowed to do so, with tensions peaking after the US-sponsored blowup of Nordstream.
My analysis is that Russian militarism is the only tool the Russian bourgeoisie has been allowed to maintain its sphere of influence. My proposal is the rapprochement of Western Europe with Russia to defuse the tensions, and to stop trying to destroy Russian influence in its neighbouring regions, because as bad as Russia is, I don’t think it’s a solid strategy for peace that Russia would, for example, start soft coups in Mexico or Guatemala (just as a comparison). Creating other routes could perfectly well defuse militarism in Europe from both sides which, as a male below 30, I see desirable (since I dont wanna die in imperialist war).
Now please tell me what part of my analysis is lacking nuance. You may disagree, but I don’t think lack of nuance is my problem.
They do backfill, but they obviously lose quite a bit of volume in the process, so they cannot completely fill the hole. The remaining part is usually flooded.
Where I live they are required to rehabilitate the land afterwards, but usually that’s after the mine has been running for like 30+ years and by the time they shut down, they do some weird financial trickery and declare bankruptcy despite having made millions in profits the previous decades and then they just walk away and tax payers need to clean up.
Honestly, that’s on the government for not either levying the industry, or making them set up a fund to pay for that.
It will be turned into a giant lake once they are done mining. You burn a lot of volume and filling it wil soil again is just not possible
Except they actually do backfill it and plant trees; it’s still an ecological horror though
Why do we let mining companies completely rape the land and replace nothing?
The government spend billions to brainwash people and turn them complicit. Check out the “germany rearming” threads to see how even on lemmy plenty of people are happy with the raping.
Wait until you hear about mercury contamination from gold mining practices
Tbh there is a lot done do make the Land usable once the mining process is through
And not nearly enough because no human activity can realistically cover some 100-200 million years of geological processes.
In most places they just want to flood the hole. These artificial lakes then become a toxic hole because the Iron-Sulfide exposed during mining oxidizes into Iron-Sulfate, leading to these lakes being diluted Sulphuric Acid for decades if not centuries.
Also the groundwater cannot recover a century of pumping it out in less than multiple centuries. Then the water used for flooding is diverted from rivers, which already are running low in these region and the artificial lakes are evaporating a lot of water, further drying things out.
Oh and of course the holes tend to be sold to some smaller private investors by the end of their lifetime who do not have nearly enough funds to be held liable for renaturization. So the tax payers will be looking at dozens if not hundreds of billions of damages to front over the next centuries while the profiteers moved their money elsewhere.
First of all I very much agree with you, no amount of human made renaturalisation will make the Land the same again. Nontheless I wish to explain the current process that exists in Germany from my first and second Hand experience.
To start, these surface coal mines span a much larger area than the lake that remains at the end, means they are moving through the landscape generally taking multiple years. During active mining plans about the final state of the landscape are already being drawn up and the company responsible for the mine is required to build up finances to fully finish renaturalisation, with is a process that already starts during active mining in areas where the coal has already been taken out of the ground, as they filled up by the earth taken from the active side of the mine. In doing so it is generally planned in a way to have similar soil roughly back in the layer it used to be before, so top soil will be on top again, once the ground is there again, plants are grown. Depending on the area planning there are generally mostly areas for farming and for forests, on farming areas there is a certain set of plants that are meant to be grown to increase the fertility of the ground and I believe in forest areas things may be similar, in any way, those areas are prepared (over multiple years obviously) and are often times already in use/pretty far developed even as the mine is still going.
When it comes to the end of such a mine and the often necessary lake, they are usually flooded through external water input and not the ground water, allowing for a better water quality. This of course doesn’t change anything about the lowered ground water level that takes decades or more to recover and the increased evaporation but at least you can swimm in it without the fear of it melting your skin off. Besides that a problem that may occur with landslides on the piled up dirt side of the lake is nowadays generally eliminated with ground ramms to basically make the soil set in a stable position.
As to holes being sold of I cannot say much, I do know tho that they are under “bergaufsicht” so under surveillance by the ministry of the state responsible for mining till renaturalisation is finished and in the case that the original owner cannot finish it for whatever reason or some so far unknown late damages occur the ministry is also responsible.
Over all I wish to say that I am not defending the general practice of digging up mass amounts of earth, destroying existing eco systems, sometimes destroying villages and leaving a lasting impact on the area but I just wanted to at least mention that at least a whole lot is being done to try and mitigate the effects it has…in Germany…currently…
Check out what they did/are doing with the Eden Project and it’s successors.
Most of the forests in Germany aren’t truly old growth tho. Instead it’s basically all wood plantations
There are time lapses of this machines movement from satellite / aerial photography and you will see that the soil becomes green again.
In the former mining pits there is a great deal of biodiversity.
That must be amazing, I wonder how much biodiversity there is in the mining pits before they were mined, who could ever know
Source, cause every old abandoned mining pit I came across life gave it it’s space.
Bagger 288! Bagger 288!
The Bagger 288 is there to safeguard all mankind.
The Bagger 288 wreaks total utter devastation.
The Bagger 288 contains an artificial mind.
This mind is full of hatred, violence is its sole vocation.
He is not here to save mankind - he is here to avenge it!
Being destroyed by a giant machine is terrible but it did file the proper paperwork first so what can be done at this point?
Just enjoy the hyperspace bypass, I expect.
There’s a lot to be said about dotted eyes and crossed teas.
I hate so much how accurate this is as a metaphor for how many politicians deal with the fascist AfD.
Uhm no bagger-288 was created to protect mankind from godzillas and doom robots from the future.
BAGGER 288 BAGGER 288
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
ok I hate coal and fossil fuels, but this thing is so cool
Alternatively, build a flying machine with TNT duplicators
[ilmango intro music] 🥭🥭🥭
Do you know what happened to him? I miss his content
haven’t been into Minecraft YouTube (or any YouTube really) for a year or so, was unaware he wasn’t active
i know he’s some kind of engineer irl so it may just be work keeping him busy. bummer either way
Like Docm’s world eater from HermitCraft season 9.
You can see it from space
Those photos are from planes.
Probably, but the entire idea of “you can see it from space” is stupid anyways. Its only meaningful if its with the naked eye and the distance is specified. You can see anything from space if you have enough optical zoom…
You can see anything from space if you have enough optical zoom…
Naw, there’s theoretical a maximum resolution, iirc it’s a few centimeters. Too much air in the way diffracting the light
Planes? I had always assumed it was satellites.
In the bottom middle of the screen it tells you the surveyor. At least it used to I haven’t checked in a while.
Satellites have adequate resolution for imaging large areas with high coverage, but aside of stuff like spy satellites they don’t usually image smaller areas in high resolution all that well. Most of the closer up images on places like Google Maps are aerial photos.
I’m in Finland and when Google Maps first launched we only got low resolution satellite images and some aerial photos of a few cities. The difference was pretty clear.
You can see people’s backyard trampolines.
No, you can’t. This is what earth looks like from space… https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov/ most of google maps uses airplane aerial shots.
Literally, yes you can, on that specific website’s satellite imagery. Bloody thing’s over 10 km wide, it’s the size of a large city. I can still easily spot it on my screen if I zoom far enough out to also include Edinburgh and Riyad!
The only way not to see it from space would be to look in the wrong place or when it is cloudy.
What am I looking at? The white dot?
The oval beige thing that takes up 1/5th of the width of the screenshot.
It is 10km wide? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_293 Also, I don’t see any beige oval that takes up 20% of the screen.
That wiki link shows the measurement of the bagger 293.
225m length is 2.25% of that 10km. The 46m wide is 0.46% of 10km. You will not spot that with naked human eye in space, it would be a speck.
Plus you circled the mine, not the excavator.
I counted 8 of them on site.
This is very real and has been an issue for years. I remember when I was younger, watching public TV, and I saw a news report about an elderly lady who was forced to sell her home along with the rest of her village so that they could dig up the entire area for coal. At the time it was a big deal, because she took so long to agree, which got media attention. It was incredibly depressing. It felt dystopian.
It’s crazy watching a time lapse of these massive holes move across the land https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz4a2WyAG68
It is an engineering marvel, indeed, as it is the biggest mobile machine of the world.
Ahh, you just beat me to it!
Bagger 288 (and its sibling, Bagger 293) are probably the biggest machines which move freely on soil. They’re about 225 m long, 96 meters tall and weigh 14 200 tons.
In the length category, the F60 overburden conveyor bridge (which moves on rails) is (was?) several times bigger, at 502 m length. It weighed less, however, at 13,600 tons.
every rational part of my brain fighting the 7 year old me inside me who knows Bagger 288 is the coolest thing ever
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Looks like a Final Fantasy optional boss.
It’s a man-made Langolier… slowly eating a dying world no one wants.
