It’s not their fault, but they definitely chose to prioritize supporting a genocide above pleasing their most fervent base.
They had polling data for months showing the impopularity of it and the low polling numbers. We all saw the polling data.
They broke what many considered to be an election promise in 2020 that Biden would be a one term. And they robbed their voters of an open primary, most likely because they knew a progressive populist would easily beat Harris. Harris has never appealed to a broad audience.
But even so, Harris got an enormous boost when she replaced Biden. All she had to do was distance herself from his unpopular positions. She should have criticized Biden on inflation and working class income stagnation. She should have let a Palestinian talk at the DNC. She should have met Arab Americans in Dearborn. And she should have voiced criticism on Netanyahu to get the hostages home and stop the killing. Heck, even Biden had more class when handling upset protestors.
But she dropped the ball on all those important issues.
It’s political incompetence and a sell-out to corporate interests.
I’m sure that someone more savvy like Pete Buttigieg would have easily beaten Trump.
But still, it’s not their fault. Everything Trump is doing is his fault.
Not sure I still understand the reasoning that some how wants to allow the non-voters to not own up to their mistake. If both parties were the same on the same issue of Palestine then that’s an issue that cancels each other out, I am not saying this is not atrocious from both parties because it is. But the rest of Pro’s should have been more then enough to warrant an effort from the non-voters to make an effort to save their democracy, rights and freedom.
I have seen it time and time again after the election, “iT’s tHe MeSsAgInG”. If sound reasoning and logic was applied the red flags were very loud from the Trump camp that what he is visiting upon the US is what was going to be expected if he won. So no, I will always tell those non-voters that their inaction is what helped cause all of this and by a large factor.
It’s exasperating to have both: a) warned, extensively and explicitly, with detailed analysis and specific examples—not just months, but years in advance—that the Democrats’ 2024 strategy was failing; and b) to have to keep explaining, over and over, to people who think they understand how things ‘should’ have gone, that Democrats did campaign exactly as they claim—and lost dramatically as a result.
Look you caught the bull by its horns, but I want you to bear with me. You think “some thing” about electoralism; and its one that wasn’t borne out by reality.
Is it the thing which is wrong or you and your thinking? You wanted the election, the electorate, electoralism itself, to be something other than what it was: If you (and Democrats in general) keep approaching elections in this manner, we will never win another election.
You can either meet the moment and find voters where they are at, hear their issues, address them or say how you’ll address them, and ask them to join your cause, or you can continue to tell them that they are wrong for what they think and do, and they better vote for you or else they’ll get the fascist.
Which do you think grows a base and which one shrinks a base?
I still fail how this lesson is not something that the voter base themselves need to learn as well. Again I feel that the retrospective is being pushed to much on to the Democratic party and not the non-voters themselves. I mean the difference between the Democratic and Trump campaign was not just a slight difference of policies. We are talking the Trump campaign was loud and proud with their racist and fascists remarks.
If the Trump campaign was better and louder at the messagng then why was his messaging in of itself not enough to motivate the voters?
The two biggest issues for non-voters was 1) Gerrymandering (they felt their vote did not matter), 2) Kamala was not compelling enough with a side note of Palestine also being part of this.
Both of which the Republicans are for point 1) to blame and for point 2) way worse with Palestine being equal on.
But sure I guess blame the Democratic party because they did not nail it 100% while the other guy was like Hitler lite throughout his campaign. If the non-voters do not have the balls to own up to their play in this then you lessons have not been learnt and there is a good probability it will be repeated. Provided of course you get a chance at another fair election.
I guess you just want to keep not getting it then. Cus what you are doing, how you are thinking, acting, talking: Its why we lost the election.
You don’t get it. But you also don’t want to get it. You want to be “right” but your approach to politics has lost the popular cause of the people, and just, objectively loses elections.
You can either “be right”, on your own terms, or you can win elections. You can’t have both.
Here is the biggest hint of your lifetime: Democrats losing elections has nothing to do with Republicans.
I still fail to see your point tbh, thank you for sharing it though. I do always enjoy trying to change my perspective. For me though it just feels as if the non voters are essentially passing the blame on and not taking accountability for the shit show they find themselves in now.
Maybe just try and appreciate the deep cynicism of your perspective.
In the same way you are trying to blame non-voters for having nothing to vote for, you are not taking accountability for the shit show we find ourselves in.
Think about your rhetoric: Whose mind is changed because of how you think, and then you expressing it?
How many people did you (or the Democrats for that matter) convince with this perspective?
Republican bad; voters should [<be>, <do>, <think>] xyz: That’s not at how elections, electoralism, or voters work.
You just simply have to come to terms with that. How you think the world works in regards to electoralism; its not how it works, and that not working was put on extreme display in November.
Do you want to win elections or not? Thats the first question to answer. Then, if you say “yes” to that first question, you then have to come to terms with the fact that your perspective, the dominant, mainstream, corporate Democrat perspective: it loses elections. It doesn’t work.
Its not cynicism that brought me to my current perspective. It’s a drive to learn from mistakes and be better from it. Something that non-voters I feel need to do as well. Let me demonstrate, if leading up to the election you were to write a pros and cons list, with Palestne being the only definite con for both sides. Given the rhetoric from both camps are you saying that the Democrats had more or the same cons as the MAGAt camp? If so I would be curious from your perspective what those other cons are? Ensure you are comparing them to the same rhetoric as the MAGAt camp during that time.
It’s not their fault, but they definitely chose to prioritize supporting a genocide above pleasing their most fervent base.
They had polling data for months showing the impopularity of it and the low polling numbers. We all saw the polling data.
They broke what many considered to be an election promise in 2020 that Biden would be a one term. And they robbed their voters of an open primary, most likely because they knew a progressive populist would easily beat Harris. Harris has never appealed to a broad audience.
But even so, Harris got an enormous boost when she replaced Biden. All she had to do was distance herself from his unpopular positions. She should have criticized Biden on inflation and working class income stagnation. She should have let a Palestinian talk at the DNC. She should have met Arab Americans in Dearborn. And she should have voiced criticism on Netanyahu to get the hostages home and stop the killing. Heck, even Biden had more class when handling upset protestors.
But she dropped the ball on all those important issues.
It’s political incompetence and a sell-out to corporate interests.
I’m sure that someone more savvy like Pete Buttigieg would have easily beaten Trump.
But still, it’s not their fault. Everything Trump is doing is his fault.
You analysis is spot on.
Harris threw away an easy layup. Trump was as unpopular as Biden when Biden dropped out.
And the Democratic machine couldnt make a W happen because they are owned by AIPAC. They would have had to call the genocide for what it was.
Not sure I still understand the reasoning that some how wants to allow the non-voters to not own up to their mistake. If both parties were the same on the same issue of Palestine then that’s an issue that cancels each other out, I am not saying this is not atrocious from both parties because it is. But the rest of Pro’s should have been more then enough to warrant an effort from the non-voters to make an effort to save their democracy, rights and freedom.
I have seen it time and time again after the election, “iT’s tHe MeSsAgInG”. If sound reasoning and logic was applied the red flags were very loud from the Trump camp that what he is visiting upon the US is what was going to be expected if he won. So no, I will always tell those non-voters that their inaction is what helped cause all of this and by a large factor.
I don’t think Gaza issue was the deciding factor in the election, it’s all the other stuff she should focus on.
I would agree it wa not the only thing but it was definitely one of the prominent ones.
It’s exasperating to have both: a) warned, extensively and explicitly, with detailed analysis and specific examples—not just months, but years in advance—that the Democrats’ 2024 strategy was failing; and b) to have to keep explaining, over and over, to people who think they understand how things ‘should’ have gone, that Democrats did campaign exactly as they claim—and lost dramatically as a result.
Look you caught the bull by its horns, but I want you to bear with me. You think “some thing” about electoralism; and its one that wasn’t borne out by reality.
Is it the thing which is wrong or you and your thinking? You wanted the election, the electorate, electoralism itself, to be something other than what it was: If you (and Democrats in general) keep approaching elections in this manner, we will never win another election.
You can either meet the moment and find voters where they are at, hear their issues, address them or say how you’ll address them, and ask them to join your cause, or you can continue to tell them that they are wrong for what they think and do, and they better vote for you or else they’ll get the fascist.
Which do you think grows a base and which one shrinks a base?
I still fail how this lesson is not something that the voter base themselves need to learn as well. Again I feel that the retrospective is being pushed to much on to the Democratic party and not the non-voters themselves. I mean the difference between the Democratic and Trump campaign was not just a slight difference of policies. We are talking the Trump campaign was loud and proud with their racist and fascists remarks.
If the Trump campaign was better and louder at the messagng then why was his messaging in of itself not enough to motivate the voters?
The two biggest issues for non-voters was 1) Gerrymandering (they felt their vote did not matter), 2) Kamala was not compelling enough with a side note of Palestine also being part of this.
Both of which the Republicans are for point 1) to blame and for point 2) way worse with Palestine being equal on.
But sure I guess blame the Democratic party because they did not nail it 100% while the other guy was like Hitler lite throughout his campaign. If the non-voters do not have the balls to own up to their play in this then you lessons have not been learnt and there is a good probability it will be repeated. Provided of course you get a chance at another fair election.
I guess you just want to keep not getting it then. Cus what you are doing, how you are thinking, acting, talking: Its why we lost the election.
You don’t get it. But you also don’t want to get it. You want to be “right” but your approach to politics has lost the popular cause of the people, and just, objectively loses elections.
You can either “be right”, on your own terms, or you can win elections. You can’t have both.
Here is the biggest hint of your lifetime: Democrats losing elections has nothing to do with Republicans.
I still fail to see your point tbh, thank you for sharing it though. I do always enjoy trying to change my perspective. For me though it just feels as if the non voters are essentially passing the blame on and not taking accountability for the shit show they find themselves in now.
Maybe just try and appreciate the deep cynicism of your perspective.
In the same way you are trying to blame non-voters for having nothing to vote for, you are not taking accountability for the shit show we find ourselves in.
Think about your rhetoric: Whose mind is changed because of how you think, and then you expressing it?
How many people did you (or the Democrats for that matter) convince with this perspective?
Republican bad; voters should [<be>, <do>, <think>] xyz: That’s not at how elections, electoralism, or voters work.
You just simply have to come to terms with that. How you think the world works in regards to electoralism; its not how it works, and that not working was put on extreme display in November.
Do you want to win elections or not? Thats the first question to answer. Then, if you say “yes” to that first question, you then have to come to terms with the fact that your perspective, the dominant, mainstream, corporate Democrat perspective: it loses elections. It doesn’t work.
Its not cynicism that brought me to my current perspective. It’s a drive to learn from mistakes and be better from it. Something that non-voters I feel need to do as well. Let me demonstrate, if leading up to the election you were to write a pros and cons list, with Palestne being the only definite con for both sides. Given the rhetoric from both camps are you saying that the Democrats had more or the same cons as the MAGAt camp? If so I would be curious from your perspective what those other cons are? Ensure you are comparing them to the same rhetoric as the MAGAt camp during that time.