I still fail how this lesson is not something that the voter base themselves need to learn as well. Again I feel that the retrospective is being pushed to much on to the Democratic party and not the non-voters themselves. I mean the difference between the Democratic and Trump campaign was not just a slight difference of policies. We are talking the Trump campaign was loud and proud with their racist and fascists remarks.
If the Trump campaign was better and louder at the messagng then why was his messaging in of itself not enough to motivate the voters?
The two biggest issues for non-voters was 1) Gerrymandering (they felt their vote did not matter), 2) Kamala was not compelling enough with a side note of Palestine also being part of this.
Both of which the Republicans are for point 1) to blame and for point 2) way worse with Palestine being equal on.
But sure I guess blame the Democratic party because they did not nail it 100% while the other guy was like Hitler lite throughout his campaign. If the non-voters do not have the balls to own up to their play in this then you lessons have not been learnt and there is a good probability it will be repeated. Provided of course you get a chance at another fair election.
I guess you just want to keep not getting it then. Cus what you are doing, how you are thinking, acting, talking: Its why we lost the election.
You don’t get it. But you also don’t want to get it. You want to be “right” but your approach to politics has lost the popular cause of the people, and just, objectively loses elections.
You can either “be right”, on your own terms, or you can win elections. You can’t have both.
Here is the biggest hint of your lifetime: Democrats losing elections has nothing to do with Republicans.
I still fail to see your point tbh, thank you for sharing it though. I do always enjoy trying to change my perspective. For me though it just feels as if the non voters are essentially passing the blame on and not taking accountability for the shit show they find themselves in now.
Maybe just try and appreciate the deep cynicism of your perspective.
In the same way you are trying to blame non-voters for having nothing to vote for, you are not taking accountability for the shit show we find ourselves in.
Think about your rhetoric: Whose mind is changed because of how you think, and then you expressing it?
How many people did you (or the Democrats for that matter) convince with this perspective?
Republican bad; voters should [<be>, <do>, <think>] xyz: That’s not at how elections, electoralism, or voters work.
You just simply have to come to terms with that. How you think the world works in regards to electoralism; its not how it works, and that not working was put on extreme display in November.
Do you want to win elections or not? Thats the first question to answer. Then, if you say “yes” to that first question, you then have to come to terms with the fact that your perspective, the dominant, mainstream, corporate Democrat perspective: it loses elections. It doesn’t work.
Its not cynicism that brought me to my current perspective. It’s a drive to learn from mistakes and be better from it. Something that non-voters I feel need to do as well. Let me demonstrate, if leading up to the election you were to write a pros and cons list, with Palestne being the only definite con for both sides. Given the rhetoric from both camps are you saying that the Democrats had more or the same cons as the MAGAt camp? If so I would be curious from your perspective what those other cons are? Ensure you are comparing them to the same rhetoric as the MAGAt camp during that time.
I just want you to appreciate that its, really, deeply, not worth my time to continue doing the of explaining why, that the perspective you refuse to move from: that its the voters fault; is part and parcel with the mechanism of how Democrats lose elections.
You just have to decide what you want more: Do you want to insist that you are right in what arguments and how you think about elections, or do you you want to beat MAGA and fascism?
You can’t have both. The Democrats drove the USS YourExactApproachToElectoralism right into the cliffs. If you can’t change your mind, and understand that how you are having this conversation was precisely is an extension of how the Democrats are managed as controlled opposition: we’re fucked.
Just set up the framing right? Lets take it apart. You want this to be framed as a "Well Democrats were bad, but Republicans were worse™. This trope has been repeated endlessly for the previous 60 years. Literately, the entire modern political hegemony (starting with the southern strategy; basically the end of the Roosevelt social Democrats), has been couched in this rhetorical framing.
Look at what you are trying to do with your framing. You are trying to set me up as if I’m defending or care even one iota about Republicans. Buddy, I have not one lick of influence on anything any Republican could ever think or do. I couldn’t convince a republican or the republican party of ANYTHING. I have 0 influence on them. My opinions or perspectives of the Republicans are utterly moot: because I have no carriage with them. They’ll never come to my perspectives, I’ll never come to theirs.
You have it burned into your head that this was a choice between two sides: but it never actually was, and it hasn’t been since… 1996? There has been no tangible center in the American electorate in at least 30 years.
Your job this election cycle, as an obviously intelligent and informed voter, your job was to get people off the couch and interested in voting. And your rhetoric, this rhetoric you are using right now: it does the opposite of that, and exponentially more so for low information voters. Literally, this presentation, that I, the voter looking to be convinced, “have to” do something, when you offer me, basically nothing other than “well the other team is pretty bad too”: what exactly is it you think that does to voters?
Again, its a broken record, and its clear that you aren’t interested in actually winning elections because you don’t have the introspection necessary.
Hey thanks for talking about it though. I would argue it appears I am not the one set in my view point. You have not really presented anything to change my mind and have spent a great deal more time writing that monologue then it would have taken to prove my point. A simple task that all people should do when entering an election. The non-voters remain in my books the biggest disappointment in the US 2024 elections, when the other side was as blatant as they were in the racism, hatred and authoritarianism then blaming the other side for their poor messaging when they were the opposite is just poor form from the non-voters and as far as I am concerned just as much fodder for the leopards as the conservatives who voted to have their rights slowly stripped away.
You want the election to have been about Republicans versus Democrats so that you can blame non-voters or anti-genocide voters, whomever.
Democrats and those who repeat their arguments simply needed to do better. They needed better policies to run on and needed to do something other than “Republicans bad” as rhetoric. “Republicans bad” when a persons life gets just as worse under Democratic rule as it does under Republican rule falls flat.
Blaming people who didn’t vote: You will lose us another election if you continue with this, and you’ve now been notified. You won’t be able to deny accountability if you continue with this strategy to rhetoric.
The difference between the two parties was not just insignificant policy difference. You had one side literally boost hatred on a Haitian community, that was loud in their Nazi and authoritarian rhetoric. You are not applying the reflection needed to understand that when one side is like that and you don’t vote against it then you are also the problem.
I still fail how this lesson is not something that the voter base themselves need to learn as well. Again I feel that the retrospective is being pushed to much on to the Democratic party and not the non-voters themselves. I mean the difference between the Democratic and Trump campaign was not just a slight difference of policies. We are talking the Trump campaign was loud and proud with their racist and fascists remarks.
If the Trump campaign was better and louder at the messagng then why was his messaging in of itself not enough to motivate the voters?
The two biggest issues for non-voters was 1) Gerrymandering (they felt their vote did not matter), 2) Kamala was not compelling enough with a side note of Palestine also being part of this.
Both of which the Republicans are for point 1) to blame and for point 2) way worse with Palestine being equal on.
But sure I guess blame the Democratic party because they did not nail it 100% while the other guy was like Hitler lite throughout his campaign. If the non-voters do not have the balls to own up to their play in this then you lessons have not been learnt and there is a good probability it will be repeated. Provided of course you get a chance at another fair election.
I guess you just want to keep not getting it then. Cus what you are doing, how you are thinking, acting, talking: Its why we lost the election.
You don’t get it. But you also don’t want to get it. You want to be “right” but your approach to politics has lost the popular cause of the people, and just, objectively loses elections.
You can either “be right”, on your own terms, or you can win elections. You can’t have both.
Here is the biggest hint of your lifetime: Democrats losing elections has nothing to do with Republicans.
I still fail to see your point tbh, thank you for sharing it though. I do always enjoy trying to change my perspective. For me though it just feels as if the non voters are essentially passing the blame on and not taking accountability for the shit show they find themselves in now.
Maybe just try and appreciate the deep cynicism of your perspective.
In the same way you are trying to blame non-voters for having nothing to vote for, you are not taking accountability for the shit show we find ourselves in.
Think about your rhetoric: Whose mind is changed because of how you think, and then you expressing it?
How many people did you (or the Democrats for that matter) convince with this perspective?
Republican bad; voters should [<be>, <do>, <think>] xyz: That’s not at how elections, electoralism, or voters work.
You just simply have to come to terms with that. How you think the world works in regards to electoralism; its not how it works, and that not working was put on extreme display in November.
Do you want to win elections or not? Thats the first question to answer. Then, if you say “yes” to that first question, you then have to come to terms with the fact that your perspective, the dominant, mainstream, corporate Democrat perspective: it loses elections. It doesn’t work.
Its not cynicism that brought me to my current perspective. It’s a drive to learn from mistakes and be better from it. Something that non-voters I feel need to do as well. Let me demonstrate, if leading up to the election you were to write a pros and cons list, with Palestne being the only definite con for both sides. Given the rhetoric from both camps are you saying that the Democrats had more or the same cons as the MAGAt camp? If so I would be curious from your perspective what those other cons are? Ensure you are comparing them to the same rhetoric as the MAGAt camp during that time.
I just want you to appreciate that its, really, deeply, not worth my time to continue doing the of explaining why, that the perspective you refuse to move from: that its the voters fault; is part and parcel with the mechanism of how Democrats lose elections.
You just have to decide what you want more: Do you want to insist that you are right in what arguments and how you think about elections, or do you you want to beat MAGA and fascism?
You can’t have both. The Democrats drove the USS YourExactApproachToElectoralism right into the cliffs. If you can’t change your mind, and understand that how you are having this conversation was precisely is an extension of how the Democrats are managed as controlled opposition: we’re fucked.
Just set up the framing right? Lets take it apart. You want this to be framed as a "Well Democrats were bad, but Republicans were worse™. This trope has been repeated endlessly for the previous 60 years. Literately, the entire modern political hegemony (starting with the southern strategy; basically the end of the Roosevelt social Democrats), has been couched in this rhetorical framing.
Look at what you are trying to do with your framing. You are trying to set me up as if I’m defending or care even one iota about Republicans. Buddy, I have not one lick of influence on anything any Republican could ever think or do. I couldn’t convince a republican or the republican party of ANYTHING. I have 0 influence on them. My opinions or perspectives of the Republicans are utterly moot: because I have no carriage with them. They’ll never come to my perspectives, I’ll never come to theirs.
You have it burned into your head that this was a choice between two sides: but it never actually was, and it hasn’t been since… 1996? There has been no tangible center in the American electorate in at least 30 years.
Your job this election cycle, as an obviously intelligent and informed voter, your job was to get people off the couch and interested in voting. And your rhetoric, this rhetoric you are using right now: it does the opposite of that, and exponentially more so for low information voters. Literally, this presentation, that I, the voter looking to be convinced, “have to” do something, when you offer me, basically nothing other than “well the other team is pretty bad too”: what exactly is it you think that does to voters?
Again, its a broken record, and its clear that you aren’t interested in actually winning elections because you don’t have the introspection necessary.
Hey thanks for talking about it though. I would argue it appears I am not the one set in my view point. You have not really presented anything to change my mind and have spent a great deal more time writing that monologue then it would have taken to prove my point. A simple task that all people should do when entering an election. The non-voters remain in my books the biggest disappointment in the US 2024 elections, when the other side was as blatant as they were in the racism, hatred and authoritarianism then blaming the other side for their poor messaging when they were the opposite is just poor form from the non-voters and as far as I am concerned just as much fodder for the leopards as the conservatives who voted to have their rights slowly stripped away.
You want the election to have been about Republicans versus Democrats so that you can blame non-voters or anti-genocide voters, whomever.
Democrats and those who repeat their arguments simply needed to do better. They needed better policies to run on and needed to do something other than “Republicans bad” as rhetoric. “Republicans bad” when a persons life gets just as worse under Democratic rule as it does under Republican rule falls flat.
Blaming people who didn’t vote: You will lose us another election if you continue with this, and you’ve now been notified. You won’t be able to deny accountability if you continue with this strategy to rhetoric.
The difference between the two parties was not just insignificant policy difference. You had one side literally boost hatred on a Haitian community, that was loud in their Nazi and authoritarian rhetoric. You are not applying the reflection needed to understand that when one side is like that and you don’t vote against it then you are also the problem.