Ffs. Yes, supporting Russia’s invasion is a step too far. However, there is a valid point to be made regarding the West’s geopolitical maneuvers leading up to the invasion. NATO expanding east after promising not an inch further, supporting regime change in Ukraine, crossing more of Russia’s “red lines,” etc. Again, I want to stress that the invasion is morally reprehensible, but it’s clear why they did it from a geopolitical standpoint.
Nobody is talking about why Russia did what they did and realistically there’s nothing majorly wrong with NATO, it’s an alliance of mostly EU countries to band together to prevent another world war and to protect themselves from “another Germany” and Russia has done absolutely nothing over the past 20+ years to assure people that they won’t attack NATO EU countries. Quite the opposite in fact.
I agree there’s nothing inherently wrong with NATO, but I think you have some of the NATO basics wrong. NATO was very much an anti-Soviet and then anti-Russian alliance. There wouldn’t be a NATO if there wasn’t a Soviet Union, that’s not up for debate. Russia wanted to join NATO at one point, ffs. Russia has done a lot fairly recently to show they won’t attack NATO countries. For example, they attacked Georgia and then Ukraine to prevent them from joining NATO. Clearly they’re afraid of NATO and don’t want to fight it.
NATO was very much an anti-Soviet and then anti-Russian
Right, because they were considered the biggest threat, if any country was going to go “Germany” it would be Russia/USSR.
Russia wanted to join NATO
That doesn’t prove anything, Russia excels at Intelligence programs, so if anything there were ulterior motives. “Russia. Crap military, fantastic intelligence agency” ~Some comment I saw here once.
For example, they attacked Georgia and then Ukraine to prevent them from joining NATO. Clearly they’re afraid of NATO and don’t want to fight it.
Are you serious? Attacking sovereign countries to show other sovereign countries in an alliance that you won’t attack them?
Yea no, he doesn’t want to attack NATO yet, he wants to slow down its growth because he wants Russias military growth to outpace it first. Then when he feels good and ready then will be the attack.
Unlike Drump, Putler isn’t stupid, he has a plan and he’s executing it. And a big thing about plans, you generally want to take certain actions at certain times
Okay great, we agree on the first quote. Why’d you use Germany as an example instead of Russia?
Second point. You think Russia is super sneaky or something? If they were, then how’d they lose Ukraine and had to invade? They’re clearly lacking when compared to the West.
Third point, yeah, I’m serious. Russia won’t attack NATO. They clearly don’t want to fight NATO, hence preventing countries within their sphere of influence from joining NATO. Russia would get wrecked even if they somehow won. It’s not worth it and if NATO was somehow weak enough that Russia could win, then they wouldn’t need to fight. They could coerce/incentivize without invading.
You’re very misinformed or just intentionally misrepresenting history here. If you think Russia was ever going to join nato in good faith even if allowed, you’re a silly child.
My dear downvoted friend! I think this perfectly answers @Vegeta@lemmy.ca question. If you have any viewpoint outside what is “political correct” you get downvoted, even just saying what the NATO Secretary General Jens “Warmonger” Stoltenberg gloated himself:
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
So what are socialists to do? They can’t help it! And the only thing liberals hate more than fascists are socialists, especially the dirtbag left when they get a little snippy.
Ffs. Yes, supporting Russia’s invasion is a step too far. However, there is a valid point to be made regarding the West’s geopolitical maneuvers leading up to the invasion. NATO expanding east after promising not an inch further, supporting regime change in Ukraine, crossing more of Russia’s “red lines,” etc. Again, I want to stress that the invasion is morally reprehensible, but it’s clear why they did it from a geopolitical standpoint.
Nobody is talking about why Russia did what they did and realistically there’s nothing majorly wrong with NATO, it’s an alliance of mostly EU countries to band together to prevent another world war and to protect themselves from “another Germany” and Russia has done absolutely nothing over the past 20+ years to assure people that they won’t attack NATO EU countries. Quite the opposite in fact.
In any case, I have them parroting Russia narratives/misinformation here: https://lemmy.world/post/27314050 here: https://lemmy.world/post/27012640 and here https://lemmy.world/post/27288224 shows censoring of people even merely express that EU is also right to be concerned of Chinese and Russian militaries on their front lawn
I agree there’s nothing inherently wrong with NATO, but I think you have some of the NATO basics wrong. NATO was very much an anti-Soviet and then anti-Russian alliance. There wouldn’t be a NATO if there wasn’t a Soviet Union, that’s not up for debate. Russia wanted to join NATO at one point, ffs. Russia has done a lot fairly recently to show they won’t attack NATO countries. For example, they attacked Georgia and then Ukraine to prevent them from joining NATO. Clearly they’re afraid of NATO and don’t want to fight it.
Right, because they were considered the biggest threat, if any country was going to go “Germany” it would be Russia/USSR.
That doesn’t prove anything, Russia excels at Intelligence programs, so if anything there were ulterior motives. “Russia. Crap military, fantastic intelligence agency” ~Some comment I saw here once.
Are you serious? Attacking sovereign countries to show other sovereign countries in an alliance that you won’t attack them?
Yea no, he doesn’t want to attack NATO yet, he wants to slow down its growth because he wants Russias military growth to outpace it first. Then when he feels good and ready then will be the attack.
Unlike Drump, Putler isn’t stupid, he has a plan and he’s executing it. And a big thing about plans, you generally want to take certain actions at certain times
Okay great, we agree on the first quote. Why’d you use Germany as an example instead of Russia?
Second point. You think Russia is super sneaky or something? If they were, then how’d they lose Ukraine and had to invade? They’re clearly lacking when compared to the West.
Third point, yeah, I’m serious. Russia won’t attack NATO. They clearly don’t want to fight NATO, hence preventing countries within their sphere of influence from joining NATO. Russia would get wrecked even if they somehow won. It’s not worth it and if NATO was somehow weak enough that Russia could win, then they wouldn’t need to fight. They could coerce/incentivize without invading.
You’re very misinformed or just intentionally misrepresenting history here. If you think Russia was ever going to join nato in good faith even if allowed, you’re a silly child.
My dear downvoted friend! I think this perfectly answers @Vegeta@lemmy.ca question. If you have any viewpoint outside what is “political correct” you get downvoted, even just saying what the NATO Secretary General Jens “Warmonger” Stoltenberg gloated himself:
So what are socialists to do? They can’t help it! And the only thing liberals hate more than fascists are socialists, especially the dirtbag left when they get a little snippy.