Hmm, let’s see, thanks to DEI, corporate America has spent the last 15 years hiring people based on their race instead of their qualifications, and you’re saying everything is starting to fall apart?
I’m not going to waste my time on this unless you can answer my very direct question, above.
I’ve been convinced through a great deal of reading over the course of many years. For me to compile it all for someone who by all indications is not receptive to having their opinion changed would be a fool’s errand.
Have you ever seen the qualifications of DEI candidates? People always say DEI, but always leave out the part that their resumes are often the best.
So we agree that America has been hiring based on race, and I’ll even go further and say its been for the last 250 years - but it’s for whites. Being white is not a merit-based qualification.
Also you think America has only been falling apart for the last 15 years? Did you just forget 1985-1993? This is a troll account, but at least make the bait believable - it’s pathetic.
That take is just lazy and stupid. DEI is about making sure qualified people aren’t overlooked because of bias. Businesses only care about making money, not some imaginary diversity quota that tanked everything. Which is why successful businesses like Costco and Apple voted to keep it. DEI isn’t affirmative action. Try again, but do better this time.
If DEI is what makes companies more successful, why does it have to be enforced? Capitalists are profit maximizers, so if there’s legit talent being overlooked by racist hiring practices, you’d expect someone with enough of a profit motive would go and hire them for cheaper to outdo the competition. Instead, it appears to be a luxury only super-successful companies can afford to maintain because it boosts their image, and everyone else has to be forced to participate.
You clearly have zero understanding of what you are talking about and it shows. Again, DEI doesn’t mandate quotas or force hiring specific people based on race or other. You are either racist, ignorant, or stupid…or all three.
Considering America has only increased in overall productivity for the last 30 years, I would say it’s going just fine. See the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
But according to you, the one making the claim, it isn’t. Where’s your evidence? Your feelings don’t count.
DEI ensured that qualified minorities could not legally be passed over by racists in favor of UNqualified whites, as clearly you are. I would never offer you a job.
Then why doesn’t someone go and create a company to hire all of that untapped non-white talent, surely they’d be running circles around their competition…
Right, so if race is irrelevant, any company who’s willing to hire race-blind would be able to easily outdo all of the racist ones by hiring the people others won’t. What part about that are you not understanding?
We had that. We had it for decades and it obviously worked great. Now the racists are back in charge, they’re burning it all down and propping up pathetically incompetent white conservatives. The racism experiment already ran for centuries in this country, and clearly demonstrated the idiocy of it. But bigots never get sick of trying it. Racist businesses will fail, yet again. What about that are you not understanding?
If racist businesses will fail on their own because racism is not sustainable, why does there need to be a law against it? Let them fail of their own accord. It might take a while, but if you’re right, they most certainly will.
I keep clicking on the profile link when I see an astonishingly stupid take expecting it to be someone from the most recent reddit migration wave and I can’t believe how often I’m wrong. How haven’t we bullied the racist dipshits off the platform even after a year+
I always appreciate another name to add to the block list. Get thee gone, thou vitriolic waste of bytes, thou fallacy-made-manifest, born of what can only be an unloving and deeply stupid progenitor.
If blocking me is the only argument you have, I’m afraid you have no argument at all.
Also, you’re proving that diversity and inclusion doesn’t work without excluding some people whose opinions you disagree with, which is by definition the suppression of a minority.
“Diversity, Equity, or Inclusion”, which part don’t you understand? Companies encouraged different perspectives so they could reach a broader scope of people and make more money. No one’s hiring an inferior candidate to do worse work lol.
Now, using cheaper parts, subscription services for everything, customer lock-in, soldered-on, unrepairable parts, focusing only on short-term profits, removing survices while increasing prices… That race to the bottom all definitely contributes to this current “profit at all costs, screw the consumer” environment…
If DEI made companies more money it wouldn’t have to be legislated, would it. Anyone with a smidge of business sense would absolutely crush it by hiring all the people that racists routinely overlook.
But it…didn’t have to be legislated, and wasn’t. MAGA and racists and Republicans made inclusion policies the bogeyman scapegoat for everything. You know, like someone who would make a false statement such as “corporate America has spent the last 15 years hiring people based on their race instead of their qualifications”. That was never a thing.
Also, I said “they could reach a broader scope of people”, it’s not just about the money. Companies weren’t required to implement these policies, they simply benefitted from them. And not always in terms of metrics like profits you can easily prove are the direct result of these policies. Amplifying voices and perspectives to reach people your company might not otherwise is valuable, but you can certainly run a profitable company without doing it.
Last thing I’ll say is all your comments mischaracterize diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts, either ignorantly or intentionally. Please stop watching Fox News…
Never assume rationality in an irrational world. We don’t live in econ 101 class where the assumption of rational actors is used to simplify equations for freshmen.
If rationality is overrated and DEI is rational, isn’t this an argument to discard it? Conversely, if it isn’t, isn’t this an argument that DEI is irrational?
Well, if it’s evidence-based, then it’s rational. Only irrational people would do things that have never been proven to work.
HOWEVER, if it’s rational, it shouldn’t need legislative support in order to work, because rationality speaks for itself. I don’t need a law to tell me to tie my shoelaces because I know I’ll end up tripping over them if I don’t.
I don’t entirely disagree with you, here. My concern is that, when engaging with the world in a nuanced (non-dualistic) way, there is rarely a solidly defined “yes or no”, “good or bad” answer.
Evidence can point to positive and negative points of nearly any given thing. Agreeing on the weight of each point is going to dramatically color a given person’s idea of whether something is a net positive or a net negative. This is why I asked you, earlier, about what sort of evidence you’d need to see to sway your opinion.
Boiling it all down to rational or irrational is a fool’s errand in the absence of objective truth.
The assumption of rational actors is standard practice in economics, basically every single theorem depends on that. When I pointed out that racism isn’t rational, the argument changed to “well, you can’t assume that everyone is rational”.
Yes. I know. I have a fucking degree in this field. Believe it or not, people have figured out how to deal with that problem a long time ago. Look up the Efficient Market Paradox, and you’ll see why rationality is still a sensible assumption to make.
Hmm, let’s see, thanks to DEI, corporate America has spent the last 15 years hiring people based on their race instead of their qualifications, and you’re saying everything is starting to fall apart?
Curious.
What sort of evidence would it take to convince you that DEI programs have been a net positive for US businesses?
What was the evidence that convinced you?
I’m not going to waste my time on this unless you can answer my very direct question, above.
I’ve been convinced through a great deal of reading over the course of many years. For me to compile it all for someone who by all indications is not receptive to having their opinion changed would be a fool’s errand.
Have you ever seen the qualifications of DEI candidates? People always say DEI, but always leave out the part that their resumes are often the best.
So we agree that America has been hiring based on race, and I’ll even go further and say its been for the last 250 years - but it’s for whites. Being white is not a merit-based qualification.
Also you think America has only been falling apart for the last 15 years? Did you just forget 1985-1993? This is a troll account, but at least make the bait believable - it’s pathetic.
That take is just lazy and stupid. DEI is about making sure qualified people aren’t overlooked because of bias. Businesses only care about making money, not some imaginary diversity quota that tanked everything. Which is why successful businesses like Costco and Apple voted to keep it. DEI isn’t affirmative action. Try again, but do better this time.
If DEI is what makes companies more successful, why does it have to be enforced? Capitalists are profit maximizers, so if there’s legit talent being overlooked by racist hiring practices, you’d expect someone with enough of a profit motive would go and hire them for cheaper to outdo the competition. Instead, it appears to be a luxury only super-successful companies can afford to maintain because it boosts their image, and everyone else has to be forced to participate.
You clearly have zero understanding of what you are talking about and it shows. Again, DEI doesn’t mandate quotas or force hiring specific people based on race or other. You are either racist, ignorant, or stupid…or all three.
“You’re wrong because I said so”
No, because you can literally look this shit up, or talk to most hiring managers or business owners.
Surely if that was how it worked then someone would have posted the documents, or emails, or any sort of paper trail. Come on, we’re all waiting.
Source: trust me, bro.
How about you provide some evidence that DEI does indeed do what you claim it does.
Considering America has only increased in overall productivity for the last 30 years, I would say it’s going just fine. See the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
But according to you, the one making the claim, it isn’t. Where’s your evidence? Your feelings don’t count.
Yikes
I’M SO RACIST I THINK CAPITALISM WORKS!!! – You for some reason.
“I’m so retarded I think insulting people works” — you for some reason
You: says obviously racist, idiotic shit all over the place
You: gets called racist
You: “racist is an insult but literal slurs arent”
???
I’m afraid I don’t follow
deleted by creator
Are you sure about that? Are you really? Because I’ve noticed a lot of CIS gendered Europeans at most of the high end engineering jobs I work at.
Well, someone has to do all the work to cover everyone’s paychecks
Wait, in what universe did that happen?
Bro what planet are you from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity,_equity,_and_inclusion#Since_the_2000s
Uh, I still have the same question. Linking to Wikipedia doesn’t really answer the question.
If you need remedial reading comprehension classes, I suggest you visit your local community college. I can’t help you with that.
What do you gain from being this stupid?
I could ask you the same.
Not really. Besides, I asked you first
Ooh, brilliant. Yeah you totally got me there. Total Uno reverse card moment. I feel utterly destroyed and defeated by your verbal prowess.
Not.
deleted by creator
DEI ensured that qualified minorities could not legally be passed over by racists in favor of UNqualified whites, as clearly you are. I would never offer you a job.
If capitalists are greedy for profit, why on earth would they hire unqualified people who look like them rather than qualified people who don’t?
Because for bigots, racism trumps profits. Did you think that was a difficult question?
Then why doesn’t someone go and create a company to hire all of that untapped non-white talent, surely they’d be running circles around their competition…
Because race is irrelevant. Bigotry is not. Did you think that was clever?
Right, so if race is irrelevant, any company who’s willing to hire race-blind would be able to easily outdo all of the racist ones by hiring the people others won’t. What part about that are you not understanding?
We had that. We had it for decades and it obviously worked great. Now the racists are back in charge, they’re burning it all down and propping up pathetically incompetent white conservatives. The racism experiment already ran for centuries in this country, and clearly demonstrated the idiocy of it. But bigots never get sick of trying it. Racist businesses will fail, yet again. What about that are you not understanding?
If racist businesses will fail on their own because racism is not sustainable, why does there need to be a law against it? Let them fail of their own accord. It might take a while, but if you’re right, they most certainly will.
fuck off fash
I keep clicking on the profile link when I see an astonishingly stupid take expecting it to be someone from the most recent reddit migration wave and I can’t believe how often I’m wrong. How haven’t we bullied the racist dipshits off the platform even after a year+
Nice try, Satan. Unfortunately, I already made a meme portraying you as a soyjak and me as a chad, so your argument is invalid.
Man, you only talk in buzzwords, it’s actually embarassing.
I always appreciate another name to add to the block list. Get thee gone, thou vitriolic waste of bytes, thou fallacy-made-manifest, born of what can only be an unloving and deeply stupid progenitor.
If blocking me is the only argument you have, I’m afraid you have no argument at all.
Also, you’re proving that diversity and inclusion doesn’t work without excluding some people whose opinions you disagree with, which is by definition the suppression of a minority.
Minorities by choice are not the point. Nobody chooses to be black, trans, disabled, etc - but people do choose to be exclusionary.
Nobody chooses to be white either.
Ultimately irrelevant but true
“Diversity, Equity, or Inclusion”, which part don’t you understand? Companies encouraged different perspectives so they could reach a broader scope of people and make more money. No one’s hiring an inferior candidate to do worse work lol.
Now, using cheaper parts, subscription services for everything, customer lock-in, soldered-on, unrepairable parts, focusing only on short-term profits, removing survices while increasing prices… That race to the bottom all definitely contributes to this current “profit at all costs, screw the consumer” environment…
If DEI made companies more money it wouldn’t have to be legislated, would it. Anyone with a smidge of business sense would absolutely crush it by hiring all the people that racists routinely overlook.
But it…didn’t have to be legislated, and wasn’t. MAGA and racists and Republicans made inclusion policies the bogeyman scapegoat for everything. You know, like someone who would make a false statement such as “corporate America has spent the last 15 years hiring people based on their race instead of their qualifications”. That was never a thing.
Also, I said “they could reach a broader scope of people”, it’s not just about the money. Companies weren’t required to implement these policies, they simply benefitted from them. And not always in terms of metrics like profits you can easily prove are the direct result of these policies. Amplifying voices and perspectives to reach people your company might not otherwise is valuable, but you can certainly run a profitable company without doing it.
Last thing I’ll say is all your comments mischaracterize diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts, either ignorantly or intentionally. Please stop watching Fox News…
Oh, weird. What’s this, then?
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/06/30/2021-14127/diversity-equity-inclusion-and-accessibility-in-the-federal-workforce
Never assume rationality in an irrational world. We don’t live in econ 101 class where the assumption of rational actors is used to simplify equations for freshmen.
Putting Rational Actors in Their Place: Economics and Phenomenology
Law and Behavioral Science: Removing the Rationality Assumption from Law and Economics
If rationality is overrated and DEI is rational, isn’t this an argument to discard it? Conversely, if it isn’t, isn’t this an argument that DEI is irrational?
Where did I claim that DEI is rational or irrational? DEI is an evidence-based practice.
Ed: Be sure to look at who you’re engaging with. I have not “changed my argument” as I have only just begun discussing this here.
Well, if it’s evidence-based, then it’s rational. Only irrational people would do things that have never been proven to work.
HOWEVER, if it’s rational, it shouldn’t need legislative support in order to work, because rationality speaks for itself. I don’t need a law to tell me to tie my shoelaces because I know I’ll end up tripping over them if I don’t.
I don’t entirely disagree with you, here. My concern is that, when engaging with the world in a nuanced (non-dualistic) way, there is rarely a solidly defined “yes or no”, “good or bad” answer.
Evidence can point to positive and negative points of nearly any given thing. Agreeing on the weight of each point is going to dramatically color a given person’s idea of whether something is a net positive or a net negative. This is why I asked you, earlier, about what sort of evidence you’d need to see to sway your opinion.
Boiling it all down to rational or irrational is a fool’s errand in the absence of objective truth.
It was not claimed that rationality is overrated.
Yeah, no, that is exactly what was claimed.
The assumption of rational actors is standard practice in economics, basically every single theorem depends on that. When I pointed out that racism isn’t rational, the argument changed to “well, you can’t assume that everyone is rational”.
Yes. I know. I have a fucking degree in this field. Believe it or not, people have figured out how to deal with that problem a long time ago. Look up the Efficient Market Paradox, and you’ll see why rationality is still a sensible assumption to make.
deleted by creator