• Lunar@lemmy.ml
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      1 hour ago

      yes let’s sexually harass all those people depending on our mutual aid comm. you’re so righteous.

        • fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 hours ago

          I don’t know if you’re talking about me, but if so i am not western, and hating on MLism isn’t anti-left lmao.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            2 hours ago

            Hating on a major branch of leftist thought isn’t technically anti-all left, but it’s still left punching. Trying to say Marxism-Leninism isn’t left is just purity testing nonsense.

            I dunno, if you consider yourself a leftist I think you’d be doing a much better service attacking right-wingers, especially now that there’s a huge rise of literal Nazis in Western countries, than attacking branches of leftism you personally disagree with. It’s entirely understandable why people would question your motives if you decide to dedicate a good portion of your personal time to anti-communism.

            • Politics doesn’t exist on a one-dimensional scale you know. These extremely authoritarian branches of leftism are to me just as detestable as right-wing authoritarianists (though clearly one is more of a present threat). But I dislike being associated with those people because they believe they somehow must be similar in ideology to me.

              • chickentendrils@lemmy.ml
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                2 hours ago

                Totally going to defeat that 400 year dictatorship of capital which has only previously made concessions to workers when there was a tangible alternative system presenting some threat to theirs with an election. Keep it up. Believe in you. <3

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                2 hours ago

                Politics doesn’t really have dimensions to begin with, things like the Political Compass are just abstractions of ideas and positions that attempts (unsuccessfully, IMO) to provide shortcuts to understanding the broader image of a viewpoint.

                As an example, Marxism-Leninism and AES states espouse and implement more democratic structures, but harshly oppressed opposition from liberals, monarchists, and fascists. This is certainly “authoritarian,” but I don’t think that’s a bad use of authority. Rather, all systems and positions are “authoritarian” in different directions and towards different groups. You get where this is getting muddy and rather than clarifying, it’s actually adding more confusion?

                As a side-note, if you think Communists are “just as detestable” as Nazis, I think you need to look more critically at these movements historically. Blackshirts and Reds is a great comparison of fascism and communism historically, proving them to be completely uncomparable in terms of sheer brutality and who they served, the bourgeoisie or the proletariat, while taking a critical look at the USSR and why it dissolved.

                • Politics doesn’t really have dimensions to begin with, things like the Political Compass are just abstractions of ideas and positions

                  Which is why I’m saying it’s nonsense to claim that say a social democrat should not criticise a Marxist-Leninist because it’s “punching left”.

                  As an example, Marxism-Leninism and AES states espouse and implement more democratic structures, but harshly oppressed opposition from liberals, monarchists, and fascists. This is certainly “authoritarian,” but I don’t think that’s a bad use of authority. Rather, all systems and positions are “authoritarian” in different directions and towards different groups.

                  This makes little sense. Apart from extremists most groups and systems do tolerate different opinions and viewpoints, and would even allow change if a majority agrees with it. Authoritarian governments explicitly do not allow this.

                  There’s a case to be made for suppressing views that are directly harmful to human life. Authoritarian governments suppress viewpoints that may harm or reduce their own power. And much like capital, power has a tendency to accumulate in one place, which is exactly why democratic systems that allow other viewpoints are so important: it decentralizes power. This also deradicalizes extreme elements in government.

                  Take the Netherlands. There’s been much said about the PVV, the anti-Islam and anti-migration party, coming into power. But because their power is so diluted and shared with other parties with different viewpoints, they’re having to work with three much more moderate parties. As a result:

                  • They settled for a PM who was formerly associated with the labour party, a longtime fairly apolitical bureaucrat.
                  • They had to let go of their anti-Islam views.
                  • And the big anti-migration bill? The current proposal makes it so they can better differentiate between refugees from wartorn countries and those who are in immediate danger, between migrants who are coming from relatively safe countries who were not in immediate danger and between those who are actively prosecuted based on their identity and who cannot reasonably be expected to return safely. Not exactly massively radical stuff.

                  They’re still twats, but they haven’t made any extreme or radical changes, and they won’t be able to do so either. They had to moderate, and they did (to a point, of course).

                  As a side-note, if you think Communists are “just as detestable” as Nazis, I think you need to look more critically at these movements historically.

                  History isn’t exactly kind on either movement. The theory is always different from practice unfortunately. I’m not interested in counting skulls, I decide for myself what the boundary is for me to consider acceptable. I don’t care how far beyond that boundary a movement is. I won’t vote for it nor will I cease criticizing it so long as I have alternatives (and thankfully I have plenty). Both Marxism-Leninism as well as Nazism are beyond that boundary for me. Sure, there’s more elements I agree with in ML, but I can find those in other ideologies too. It’s the elements that I heavily disagree with that make me dislike it. I can acknowledge Nazism is worse, but that doesn’t draw me towards ML in any way.

                  I suppose you could draw a parallel to people who won’t support the democrats over their stance on Gaza having caused a genocide. Sure, republicans are certainly worse, but that won’t make me a cheerleader for Harris. But given that the US has no alternative, I would (begrudgingly) still vote D. Thankfully I live in a country with strong democratic principles, which does provide me with alternatives, so I don’t have to compromise on my principles.

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    2 minutes ago

                    “Punching left” just means antagonizing Socialists. It isn’t about arbitrary spatial coordinates, but is a commonly understood shorthand.

                    Secondly, systems do not allow themselves to be changed. Feudalism wasn’t voted away, nor is Capitalism. There’s frequently controlled opposition giving the illusion of choice, when no such choice exists in reality. This is a fact that has been understood for centuries.

                    I don’t think the case that viewpoints like fascism should be allowed makes any sense, and taking the USSR’s example, liberalization killed 7 million people that would not have died otherwise. Rather, if we take Marx’s analysis, centralization of industry and production is inevitable as it advances, ergo it should be democratized as it centralizes. Decentralization doesn’t mean democratization, such analysis would mean Capitalism is more democratic. In reality, centralization and decentralization have nothing to do with how democratic a system is, just how it can be democratized.

                    As for Marxism-Leninism, you can oppose it without drawing equivalence to the Nazis. Doing as such originated as a form of Nazi apologia and Holocaust minimization, also known as Double Genocide Theory. You likely aren’t intentionally doing that, but the fact remains that this is the origin of such equivalences. Moreover, the bodycount of Western European countries and the US is far higher to begin with, History has been more kind to AES than it has to Capitalism.

                    I encourage you to read the book I linked.

          • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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            6 hours ago

            Yes of course, real leftism is when you exclusively punch left and encourage spending money to highjack leftists spaces to redirect them to right wing neo liberal ones.

            • fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              6 hours ago

              Lol. I don’t exclusively punch left so i don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, and i said it would be funny, while saying “it’s a waste of money”.

              and encourage spending money to highjack leftists spaces to redirect them to right wing neo liberal ones.

              Get a clue lmao. State capitalism isn’t leftist. Even fucking social democrats are more leftist, and that’s saying something.

              • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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                6 hours ago

                Lol. I don’t exclusively punch left

                Your comment history disagrees.

                State capitalism isn’t leftist

                Oh but imperialist neoliberalism is? I guess “real leftism” is just Western chauvinism.

                Even fucking social democrats are more leftist

                Why? Oh right, because they’re Western

                • fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  6 hours ago

                  Your comment history disagrees.

                  Okay? This is a new account anyway, i switched to it. And lemmy isn’t the only thing i use so this is just a stupid point.

                  Oh but imperialist neoliberalism is? I guess “real leftism” is just Western chauvinism.

                  Whataboutism. I did not say that at all lol. Fuck state-capitalism, but fuck neoliberalism more.

                  Why? Oh right, because they’re Western

                  Do you hear yourself? I’m not western, i have nothing to gain from praising them.

                  • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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                    5 hours ago

                    This is a new account anyway, i switched to it.

                    Ah ok, leftism is when you name a new dedicated account for left punching.

                    Whataboutism

                    Lol, the classic cry of the hypocrite.

                    Fuck state-capitalism, but fuck neoliberalism more.

                    Says the one calling for a “state-capitalist” community to be hijacked and redirected to a neoliberal one.

                    I’m not western, i have nothing to gain from praising them.

                    Then you should stop doing it.