Let me rephrase it - feminism is, in its entirety, about women.
Rephrasing the same point does not make it more true. I already got it that it’s your view and I disagree - I don’t think we will find a common ground on this point, which might stem from different personal experience.
blindly following feminism
Blindly following anything is dumb, kind of general rule. And also feminism does not claim to be solution to all problem. Again it’s a sociological framework (that is evolving) to analyze power dynamics in society, from a rather specific point of view. It’s like expecting game theory to solve all your problems.
But feminists speak little about the fact most of that financial burden still lies on men, or that there is a common expectation for a man to earn more than a woman. For them, it’s commonly a non-issue.
It is a non-issue for feminist that men earn more than women? And that women are still financially reliant on man is not a concern for feminists? I think you just fail to see that a lot of points you are mentioning are directly connected to critique feminism is bringing up. And again - no one is stopping men from bringing up those issues - not like men would lack platforms.
What is beyond me at the end of the day is why people took the movement that is about women, always claims to be about women and historically never been about anyone but women and suddenly pretended it’s about everyone
And you will never get it, since you fundamentally misunderstand feminism.
ltimately, it is not for or about men, it’s about what women want men to be.
And yet, men gather here and talk about their issues - and you are the one having a problem with it. While no-one is stopping you from creating a non feminist male issue community and see where it goes. Or you can check one that was around here and see how it ended.
I am, however, socially pressured to be a provider, and instead do my best to be - exactly - a partner. An equal, not only in joys but in duties as well. And this is surprisingly hard.
Guess who is one of the few groups fighting against societal pressure thru narrow gender roles? But than again if you are searching for non feminist women who want to be equal partners and not a provider - I might have an idea why it’s hard.
I don’t think there’s much ground to disagree or misunderstand on my first statement - feminism, by its very name and definition, is a movement of women (fem-) against gendered oppression of women (misogyny, a form of sexism). The umbrella term is antisexism, which covers all kinds of sexism and includes feminism, masculism and, arguably, movements for the rights of nonbinary people. As per personal opinions, I strongly prefer a united antisexist front that could tackle the issues from both sides, and find the rest highly unproductive and divisive.
rather specific point of view
Exactly. And a very narrow one at that. Feminism is a movement driven by women, and, first and foremost, it takes into account the experiences of women. Trying to solve two-sided gendered issues only from the feminist angle is like taking masculist theory and trying to explain everything stemming from experiences of men.
Feminists do critique uneven pay, which I did mention. They do care about financial independence. However, they do not actively combat the issue beyond this point - it’s not a feminist problem when a man is still expected to provide a higher income, even when a woman is able to pay for herself. By essentially omitting this angle, feminists miss out on one of the key pieces behind why men are more likely to get a higher office. This very expectation of needing to spend more drives more men into high-earning careers, and, on the other end, in some cases they are more likely to be promoted exactly because they are commonly seen as main providers, and so it is recognized they need it more.
My problem is that feminism here is wrapped in a foil that disguises it for some sort of men’s movement, which might be enticing for some and gets some people engaged into genuinely believing feminism is the ultimate answer to sexism, for men and women. I have witnessed some of the more aggressive overtakings of the Internet spaces by some of the feminists, and believe this is one of the ultimate manifestations of a broken antisexist movement. The result? Men have little to no say in the wider antisexist movement that is now almost unilaterally feminist, and many of those silenced turn to patriarchy instead. Good job.
I’m searching for someone who, like me, still believes in that an antisexist movement should be united. I am feminist in the sense of “women should get all the practical and real rights men have, and should get a say in all spheres of life”, and I am masculist in the sense of “men should get all the practical and real rights women have, and should get a say in all spheres of life”. And I don’t believe either is worth a dime without the other.
Rephrasing the same point does not make it more true. I already got it that it’s your view and I disagree - I don’t think we will find a common ground on this point, which might stem from different personal experience.
Blindly following anything is dumb, kind of general rule. And also feminism does not claim to be solution to all problem. Again it’s a sociological framework (that is evolving) to analyze power dynamics in society, from a rather specific point of view. It’s like expecting game theory to solve all your problems.
It is a non-issue for feminist that men earn more than women? And that women are still financially reliant on man is not a concern for feminists? I think you just fail to see that a lot of points you are mentioning are directly connected to critique feminism is bringing up. And again - no one is stopping men from bringing up those issues - not like men would lack platforms.
And you will never get it, since you fundamentally misunderstand feminism.
And yet, men gather here and talk about their issues - and you are the one having a problem with it. While no-one is stopping you from creating a non feminist male issue community and see where it goes. Or you can check one that was around here and see how it ended.
Guess who is one of the few groups fighting against societal pressure thru narrow gender roles? But than again if you are searching for non feminist women who want to be equal partners and not a provider - I might have an idea why it’s hard.
I don’t think there’s much ground to disagree or misunderstand on my first statement - feminism, by its very name and definition, is a movement of women (fem-) against gendered oppression of women (misogyny, a form of sexism). The umbrella term is antisexism, which covers all kinds of sexism and includes feminism, masculism and, arguably, movements for the rights of nonbinary people. As per personal opinions, I strongly prefer a united antisexist front that could tackle the issues from both sides, and find the rest highly unproductive and divisive.
Exactly. And a very narrow one at that. Feminism is a movement driven by women, and, first and foremost, it takes into account the experiences of women. Trying to solve two-sided gendered issues only from the feminist angle is like taking masculist theory and trying to explain everything stemming from experiences of men.
Feminists do critique uneven pay, which I did mention. They do care about financial independence. However, they do not actively combat the issue beyond this point - it’s not a feminist problem when a man is still expected to provide a higher income, even when a woman is able to pay for herself. By essentially omitting this angle, feminists miss out on one of the key pieces behind why men are more likely to get a higher office. This very expectation of needing to spend more drives more men into high-earning careers, and, on the other end, in some cases they are more likely to be promoted exactly because they are commonly seen as main providers, and so it is recognized they need it more.
My problem is that feminism here is wrapped in a foil that disguises it for some sort of men’s movement, which might be enticing for some and gets some people engaged into genuinely believing feminism is the ultimate answer to sexism, for men and women. I have witnessed some of the more aggressive overtakings of the Internet spaces by some of the feminists, and believe this is one of the ultimate manifestations of a broken antisexist movement. The result? Men have little to no say in the wider antisexist movement that is now almost unilaterally feminist, and many of those silenced turn to patriarchy instead. Good job.
I’m searching for someone who, like me, still believes in that an antisexist movement should be united. I am feminist in the sense of “women should get all the practical and real rights men have, and should get a say in all spheres of life”, and I am masculist in the sense of “men should get all the practical and real rights women have, and should get a say in all spheres of life”. And I don’t believe either is worth a dime without the other.