• glimse@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    I can’t tell if you voted for Harris because you said you voted against the bad man but are being really defensive of the people who helped Trump win.

    If you did anything but vote Harris, you did not vote against Trump in our shitty first-past-the-post system. Don’t kid yourself.

    • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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      2 days ago

      I voted against Trump. Voting for Trump wouldn’t be a vote against Biden. Reading further down thread with the attacks you have against another commenter, I don’t think you’re terribly literate at understanding people who disagree with you. It’s either that or disingenuous because you want to fight. Your pick.

    • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      If we’re going to start blaming people who let Trump win, let’s start with Joe Biden, who was too stubborn to drop out before the 2024 primary. Then, let’s move on to his aides, who kept his declining cognitive abilities from the public. Then let’s move on to any Democratic Party members who met with Biden before the 2024 election and were aware of his diminished capacity. Then let’s move on to the members of the DNC who decided to protect Biden from real primary challengers (they drove Dean Phillips out of politics for trying to run, by the way), despite the fact that 60% of Democrats wanted a different candidate.

      Once we’re done blaming those people, let’s move on to blaming Harris, who did nothing to distance herself from Biden on Gaza despite knowing that it was polling very poorly with a base she needed to motivate. Then let’s blame her for adopting a flacid, middle-class oriented economic policy and abandoning the economic populism that worked in 2020. Let’s also blame Harris’ top strategists, Jen O’Malley Dillon, David Plouffe, Quentin Fulks, and Stephanie Cutter, who ran the same strategy of trying to flip moderate Republicans that lost in 2020.

      Anyway, once we’ve held all those people accountable for letting Trump win, then maybe we can see if there’s any blame left for protesting leftists or apathetic working-class voters. And before you ask, yes, I voted for Harris. I just don’t hold the powerless accountable for the powerfuls’ mistakes.

      • glimse@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I just don’t hold the powerless accountable for the powerfuls’ mistakes.

        …So you agree advocating against Harris was a mistake? The thing that everyone else said would be a mistake?

        How are these people any different than “I care about the economy” voters who never verified any of Trumps claims? Just a little mistake, nothing to hold against them.

        • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          …So you agree advocating against Harris was a mistake? The thing that everyone else said would be a mistake?

          What the ever loving fuck are you talking about? You think when I said the powerful, i meant Muslims and anti-war protesters who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Harris? Or working-class voters who decided Harris’ shitty economic plan wasn’t worth standing in a poll line? And I guess you must have thought the powerless were the people who spent over a billion dollars campaigning with Mark Cuban? Is that how broken your brain is?

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            What the ever loving fuck are you talking about? You think when I said the powerful, i meant Muslims and anti-war protesters who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Harris?

            It would seem that they felt that punishing the powerless for Harris’s mistakes was okay.

            • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              Seriously Pug? You think that Muslims watching their people get ethnically cleansed aren’t powerless? You think college students getting beaten by cops and accused of antisemitism for protesting a genocide aren’t the powerless? You think people exercising the tiniest amount of control they have over their democracy by withholding their vote means their not the powerless ones? How many groups are willing to scapegoat before you start holding people with actual institutional power accountable?

              • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                Seriously Pug? You think that Muslims watching their people get ethnically cleansed aren’t powerless? You think college students getting beaten by cops and accused of antisemitism for protesting a genocide aren’t the powerless? You think people exercising the tiniest amount of control they have over their democracy by withholding their vote means their not the powerless ones?

                Your argument is that the powerless shouldn’t be held accountable for the sins of the powerful. Yet simultaneously, you claim that voters punishing American minorities with genocide and a fascist regime is justified, because of the sins of the Dem elite.

                Sorry that you think that welcoming genocide is only bad when Dem elites do it, and not when voters ushering in fascism do it.

                • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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                  2 days ago

                  Yet simultaneously, you claim that voters punishing American minorities with genocide and a fascist regime is justified, because of the sins of the Dem elite.

                  Yeah, this, “Won’t someone think of the minorities!?!?” shit would carry more weight if minority groups weren’t also abandoning the Democrats. Latino support for the Democratic ticket dropped 8 points between 2020 and 2024. Muslim support dropped 49%. Black support for Harris dropped as well, even if it was mostly among men. And I’m just going by exit polls; I’m not even counting the people who stopped showing up.

                  Maybe you can start parsing out which minority groups have the most power, and then start blaming them too. That might let you scapegoat someone else a little longer, so you postpone holding the people with actual power accountable a little bit longer.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                    2 days ago

                    Yeah, this, “Won’t someone think of the minorities!?!?” shit would carry more weight if minority groups weren’t also abandoning the Democrats.

                    Fucking what? “Fascist propaganda worked in this election, therefore, supporting genocide is okay”?

                    Oh. Or are you one of those people who are still saying “You LIBS are just fearmongering!” about Trump?

                    Maybe you can start parsing out which minority groups have the most power, and then start blaming them too. That might let you scapegoat someone else a little longer, so you postpone holding the people with actual power accountable a little bit longer.

                    Sorry that you think supporting fascism is okay if you’re only a small part of the support.

          • glimse@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            We’re talking voters, dude. No idea why you keep bringing up POWER as if people are incapable of blaming two things at once. The Democrats blew it, no doubt about it.

            But anyone that didn’t vote for Harris helped Trump win.

            • pjwestin@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              It’s literally the first comment, dude. I detail a huge fucking list of powerful people who fucked up so bad the Democrats lost to one of the least popular Presidents of all time, then ended it with, “Anyway, once we’ve held all those people accountable for letting Trump win, then maybe we can see if there’s any blame left for protesting leftists or apathetic working-class voters.” It’s literally a politicians job to win elections, but this community is full of memes blaming the left because the Democrats suck at their job.

              • glimse@lemmy.world
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                2 days ago

                The existence of people more deserving of blame doesn’t absolve the people less deserving of blame for their faults. Stein voters/non-voters are not blameless here.

                I despise the Democratic Party. That doesn’t make me less pissed off at the voters who campaigned against her