Hello all, it is with a heavy heart that I must admit that I have become the drama that I always sought to avoid for this server. In this case, I could easily let sleeping dogs lie, but I’m somewhat exhausted and I don’t really see the point of continuing here if there isn’t some semblance of justice or rational thought to be found. More to the point, if Lemmy continues to display outright hostility and toxicity towards Americans at every turn, there is virtually no chance that this platform will ever develop beyond its current fringe status.
Although this server is based in Canada, I think we probably have a good number of Americans, and also despite recent events I think Canadians and Americans are fairly similar and have historically gotten along quite well with one another. I’m curious if a more diverse array of people will find any value in my actions, or if I’m truly just shouting into the wind. Strap in, because this is gonna be a long one.
This all started yesterday when @DankOfAmerica@reddthat.com made a post to AskLemmy. The original post read as follows.
I responded here. I had indeed noticed the constant derisive comments regarding Americans, although I didn’t agree with the assumption that such comments were made by Russian/Chinese agents, and stated as much.
In my view, the responses to both OP and myself in that thread constitute clear evidence that at least one of our assumptions was true. In response to being called out on their hateful behavior, a number of users proceeded to double down, attempting to gaslight myself and OP and even suggesting that we were actually the Russian spies 🕵️♂️
Several hours later, one of our users decided to make a post “exposing” my behavior on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com. Despite the fact that I hadn’t utilized any moderator powers during this saga, he found my words to be offensive enough to post on said community. The post was eventually removed because it was unsuitable for the community, but not before I had replied in defense of myself. This was unfortunate, although understandable, because I felt that my response was something that Lemmy users could benefit from hearing.
I made this post because I want my fellow sh.itjust.works users to judge whether my actions and thoughts were reasonable, and I also want to expose this individual for what they are. My first option was !fediverselore@lemmy.ca, but it’s not allowed to post drama that you’re involved in. Also, I’m not really looking for the opinions of people who subscribe to drama communities on Lemmy, but rather the opinions of the average sh.itjust.works user. So here’s the screenshot of the removed post.
Here’s my reply.
It’ll probably be easier reading if you go to my profile and/or his profile. Although the post was deleted, the comments should still appear in our profiles.
To summarize, this user bullied a brand new user into deleting their account, responding to an innocent, highly upvoted meme with this comment
He let’s me freely hang out at his nice place full of amenities so I can’t badmouth him
Lmfao, no, you can, you just like the taste of boot, and the benefits he gives you (that he only has because he exploits people like you) too much to.
Also, those last two points in the meme, as well as this being your only post on a new account strongly suggest that this is a troll, or at the very least, a really sad LARP, rather than observations made by someone who has ever spent any time at all with any actual rich people.
Two days later, he decided to call me out for mod abuse, despite the fact that I hadn’t removed a single comment of his. Now he’s decided to move over to lemmy.dbzer0.com, thank goodness.
But overall, aside from the specifics of this drama, I also want y’all to render judgment on whether or not Lemmy tends to exhibit a toxic attitude towards Americans. Notice that I said Americans, not America. I don’t give a shit if people criticize and blatantly shit on America for the decisions that our government makes. But it’s far too often that Lemmy users go beyond that line and decide to hurl personal insults towards Americans, often in completely non-political communities. I’ve always had thick skin and an open mind, so if I’m getting annoyed by it, my assumption is that most other Americans will find it intolerable. And although we don’t need to be a majority American site by any means, the sheer numbers dictate that if Americans find this site intolerable, it will never achieve mainstream success.
And if I hear one more fucking person say that America only joined World War 2 after it was already over, or that we were cowards for not joining sooner, I swear to God I’ma start criticizing the metric system again 😂
EDIT:
Thanks for the replies, I’ll try to be less of an arrogant prick going forward and in return I’d like people to reflect on my words from time to time. My primary motivation is making Lemmy better and having more diverse viewpoints, I wouldn’t have called anyone out if I didn’t feel that some of you are creating an environment that is self-destructive towards our goals in that regard. But maybe I’m overreacting, I would just ask you to put yourself in other people’s shoes before making comments, and remember that we’re all on the same team here, even the North American Scum
That’s fair, but somehow I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans. It seems like such behavior would inevitably be downvoted, as it should be.
But when it comes to Americans, it’s open season for people to take pot shots, and it always gets upvoted regardless of its accuracy.
I was being condescending at times, because people were throwing around insane accusations of me being a russian plant and refusing to acknowledge any validity to the complaints being voiced. Why shouldn’t I condescend those who spread senseless vitriol for no apparent reason? They deserve to be criticized and mocked, because that’s exactly what they’re doing to other people. The dude I was talking to literally bullied one of my users into deleting their account, then tried to put me on blast for no reason. I have more than enough justification to treat people such as those with disdain.
You all seem to implicitly think I’m somehow proud or bragging about America being the largest economic and military force in the world. That’s not even remotely the case, I think it’s entirely fucked. But that’s the world we live in. I’m just trying to explain what I’ve experienced and observed here, and understand what is causing that behavior.
I’ve read plenty cricism of the US, China, Russia, Mexico and some of canada, Ukraine, France, Spain, Germany, Denmark, Norway, India, Australia, Taiwan, Japan, Brazil, Venezuela. Those I can think on top of my head.
If you don’t see any hatred against anything besides the US, without trying to be too disrespectful, open your eyes.
Because you only speak English, not German, Dutch, Italian or French (or at least, aren’t actively posting in those communities with this account). And, rather ironically, that’s a very common thing to see in Americans.
I’ve never seen a German post about how few people are commenting on (negative) events in Sweden, because they realize that most people commenting on Swedish events are Swedes are posting in Swedish, in Swedish forums, and not Germans posting in German in German forums, except when it occasionally makes the German newpapers.
That’s a decent argument, but America isn’t the only nationality that speaks English natively. Canada, NZ, Britain, Ireland, Australia all exist and the type of behavior I’m talking about doesn’t get directed towards them. Furthermore, English is the primary language of internet discourse. Lemmy has potential to move beyond that paradigm, but the vast majority of content still remains in English, and the vast majority of users speak English, even if it’s not their native language.
More importantly, I want to clarify my meaning, because you seem to be misinterpreting. People commenting on negative events in America is fine with me, I have no problem with that. It’s when people say crazy out of pocket shit in unrelated threads and get upvoted for it that I become annoyed.
I didn’t want to put anyone specific on trial here, so I didn’t mention it until now, but there was one specific user who provides a good example of this behavior. A few months ago I rebuked him for his constant insults and hating on Americans. I was able to find dozens of aggressive, insensitive comments that he had just made within the previous couple weeks. I won’t name him in this comment, but if you read through this thread you’ll know.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/26023070/14232483
First of all, note the 10 downvotes u/ferret received for making the simple, factual observation that the US has the largest population of English speakers in the world by a significant margin. That seems a bit unwarranted, no?
Then, when I provide the evidence of this user’s persistent toxicity towards Americans at the end of the thread, everybody who was downvoting us suddenly fades into the woodwork and pretends it never happened. That’s fucking gaslighting, people talk mad shit and then when they get called out they just run away and act like it never happened. I’m gonna transcribe that vitriol again, because I’m sick of people acting like I’m being super sensitive and it’s only because of my American privilege and it’s just the same shit that other nationalities deal with. It’s not normal, it’s abusive and pathological hatred and it’s only acceptable when directed towards Americans.
spoiler
Again, that’s just from a single user over a period of 2-3 weeks. This kind of attitude is pervasive across Lemmy, and it’s a big problem because it drives away a lot of potential users.
See if you can find me an example of another Lemmy user who is on a crusade like that against a different nationality. Not just a reasonable criticism of a political or economic event, but someone who is actively going out of their way to insult and berate one specific nationality. Because I’d wager I could find dozens more lemmings that constantly act that way towards Americans if I really wanted to.
It was once possible to see the rise of fascism in the United States as something that was being amplified by media, amplified by foreign influence, amplified by propaganda, amplified by whoever made the most noise on Facebook.
Then the election happened, and Trump won. The reality that Americans as a whole are much shittier than previously imagined became undeniable, and that has really upset a lot of people’s worldview (myself included).
Trump’s federal cases got dismissed, and now his sentence for 34 felonies in New York State is “go on your merry way.” Fascism isn’t looming in the distance somewhere anymore; it’s literally eight days away as of this writing.
So yeah, it’s open season for people to take pot shots, especially when the US has been promoting itself on the world stage for decades as the height of moral superiority. And it’s very easy for people to conflate “Americans” with “an American”. If a specific person in a specific context is making that kind of conflatory (yeah, that’s a word) mistake continually, I may point it out, but I generally understand and I’m willing to give it a pass for the moment.
Yeah. You never know which type of American you have, but I’d guess the correlation of being on Lemmy is more likely someone that did not vote for fascism. I definitely understand citizens of other countries being bitter and/or upset.
And honestly, imo, more likely to criticize the US as an American. A lot of the criticism on here is coming from inside the country.
You might just not hang out in the right places to see it, but anywhere there’s a European political community, you will see plenty of shit talk and hate and blame being thrown around, especially towards the bigger euro countries like Germany, France and the UK (though not limited to).
I’m not saying there isn’t a good explanation as to why you might have been condescending, or that you are a dumb proud maga American, or anything of the sort, but keep in mind that we can’t guess what you might be thinking, all we have to go on is what you write and some of it that I highlighted does make you look a certain way.
Also, those communities discuss in their own language, that OP probably doesn’t read
I think this shouldn’t underestimated. Even as someone fluent in English I am much more likely to criticize my own country and/or neighboring countries relevant to my own country’s politics in my country’s language than in English.
In lemmy, besides Germany I wouldn’t bet on it. The local language communities are pretty much dead besides german ones tbh.
I think this comment you replied to summarizes things well.
I’ll reiterate here that pot shots towards Americans would generally be “punching up” in some contexts, which usually isn’t as frowned upon as punching down.
Also consider that it could be, uh…self-punching? It could be Americans poking fun at themselves, being unhappy with the current state of the country (and who is set to become president – Elon Musk as vizier, with Trump returning for the pictures).
Yea I’m sure there are a lot of Americans hating on ourselves, the type of Americans who use Lemmy tend to be pretty pissed off at the direction of the country. But it still contributes to a really exhausting, depressing atomosphere at times. Not to mention unbalanced/biased
It can certainly be depressing at times but on the other hand not nearly as depressing as a complete disconnect between the bleak reality you observe yourself and overly positive portrayal in media (social or otherwise).
It doesn’t need to be a competition.
French bashing from 9 days ago: https://feddit.org/post/6408713/3945015
Just remember this one, I can find out countless other examples when I have more time
For me, as an American, it’s easier for me to criticize America. I’m familiar with it and I can bring receipts. I will criticize certain actions of other countries but it feels wrong to start generalizing as I have neither the knowledge or experience of their day-to-day, culture, politics, etc.
If there was such heavy bullying, how come that this user didn’t get banned from SJW?
Just to make sure: because one of your users bullied another one, you made a derogatory statement towards a whole content?