Hello all, it is with a heavy heart that I must admit that I have become the drama that I always sought to avoid for this server. In this case, I could easily let sleeping dogs lie, but I’m somewhat exhausted and I don’t really see the point of continuing here if there isn’t some semblance of justice or rational thought to be found. More to the point, if Lemmy continues to display outright hostility and toxicity towards Americans at every turn, there is virtually no chance that this platform will ever develop beyond its current fringe status.
Although this server is based in Canada, I think we probably have a good number of Americans, and also despite recent events I think Canadians and Americans are fairly similar and have historically gotten along quite well with one another. I’m curious if a more diverse array of people will find any value in my actions, or if I’m truly just shouting into the wind. Strap in, because this is gonna be a long one.
This all started yesterday when @DankOfAmerica@reddthat.com made a post to AskLemmy. The original post read as follows.
I responded here. I had indeed noticed the constant derisive comments regarding Americans, although I didn’t agree with the assumption that such comments were made by Russian/Chinese agents, and stated as much.
In my view, the responses to both OP and myself in that thread constitute clear evidence that at least one of our assumptions was true. In response to being called out on their hateful behavior, a number of users proceeded to double down, attempting to gaslight myself and OP and even suggesting that we were actually the Russian spies 🕵️♂️
Several hours later, one of our users decided to make a post “exposing” my behavior on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com. Despite the fact that I hadn’t utilized any moderator powers during this saga, he found my words to be offensive enough to post on said community. The post was eventually removed because it was unsuitable for the community, but not before I had replied in defense of myself. This was unfortunate, although understandable, because I felt that my response was something that Lemmy users could benefit from hearing.
I made this post because I want my fellow sh.itjust.works users to judge whether my actions and thoughts were reasonable, and I also want to expose this individual for what they are. My first option was !fediverselore@lemmy.ca, but it’s not allowed to post drama that you’re involved in. Also, I’m not really looking for the opinions of people who subscribe to drama communities on Lemmy, but rather the opinions of the average sh.itjust.works user. So here’s the screenshot of the removed post.
Here’s my reply.
It’ll probably be easier reading if you go to my profile and/or his profile. Although the post was deleted, the comments should still appear in our profiles.
To summarize, this user bullied a brand new user into deleting their account, responding to an innocent, highly upvoted meme with this comment
He let’s me freely hang out at his nice place full of amenities so I can’t badmouth him
Lmfao, no, you can, you just like the taste of boot, and the benefits he gives you (that he only has because he exploits people like you) too much to.
Also, those last two points in the meme, as well as this being your only post on a new account strongly suggest that this is a troll, or at the very least, a really sad LARP, rather than observations made by someone who has ever spent any time at all with any actual rich people.
Two days later, he decided to call me out for mod abuse, despite the fact that I hadn’t removed a single comment of his. Now he’s decided to move over to lemmy.dbzer0.com, thank goodness.
But overall, aside from the specifics of this drama, I also want y’all to render judgment on whether or not Lemmy tends to exhibit a toxic attitude towards Americans. Notice that I said Americans, not America. I don’t give a shit if people criticize and blatantly shit on America for the decisions that our government makes. But it’s far too often that Lemmy users go beyond that line and decide to hurl personal insults towards Americans, often in completely non-political communities. I’ve always had thick skin and an open mind, so if I’m getting annoyed by it, my assumption is that most other Americans will find it intolerable. And although we don’t need to be a majority American site by any means, the sheer numbers dictate that if Americans find this site intolerable, it will never achieve mainstream success.
And if I hear one more fucking person say that America only joined World War 2 after it was already over, or that we were cowards for not joining sooner, I swear to God I’ma start criticizing the metric system again 😂
EDIT:
Thanks for the replies, I’ll try to be less of an arrogant prick going forward and in return I’d like people to reflect on my words from time to time. My primary motivation is making Lemmy better and having more diverse viewpoints, I wouldn’t have called anyone out if I didn’t feel that some of you are creating an environment that is self-destructive towards our goals in that regard. But maybe I’m overreacting, I would just ask you to put yourself in other people’s shoes before making comments, and remember that we’re all on the same team here, even the North American Scum
Can we have new drama please?
I might post about the hexbear reaction to this post later. It was amusing to say the least. But I would post that to !meanwhileongrad, this has already been plenty of drama for the main community.
Overall, I think that any mod or admin should use another account to post personal takes. Use the moderator account only for meration and post any personal takes on a personal account.
In general, I agree, but I’m concerned with the prevalence of vote manipulation and shithousing on this site, and I feel like my past track record on this account is one of the only ways for me to protect myself from the constant baseless accusations of being a Russian shill, being a right winger, etc.
I feel that someone needs to be able to counter the increasing tendency towards absolute ideological purity that is strangling this platform, and if people don’t know me from a hole in the wall, it’ll be that much easier to discredit me when I try to criticize the circlejerking that goes on here.
In other words, I’m a human being, and I have opinions, and I’m flawed. But that doesn’t mean I can’t or don’t try my best to act objectively and in the best interests of the server when I’m performing my admin duties. That’s reality, and hiding behind alt accounts just to pretend that I’m a pure paragon of justice on my admin account isn’t really my style, and I don’t really see how it would benefit anyone.
I personally mod using alts, to limit the reach of potential drama should I have controversial takes, or heated discussions with other users.
As you probably noticed, one of the element that made the drama blow up was you making derogatory comments using your admin account. Would this has been on a normal account, the impact would probably have been much lower.
Lemm.ee and Lemmy.zip usually get praised on their invisible admins. You see them post the updates about the servers from time to time, but that’s it.
I don’t think its Europeans being jealous but instead that Lemmy attracts the kind of Users who are more anti western/capitalistic (and the US is literally the definition of capitalism) and also users being dickheads about it. Just because Americans have to live and participate in a system that’s quite shit, that doesn’t mean that they are directly responsible for it and I think that this is something a lot of people forget.
That’s runaway capitalism, sir.
Dude, you rock. Don’t even bow down to the negs that you are getting. You legit stood up for me even though you don’t agree with me. That’s an admirable, and increasingly rare, trait.
I’m American, and apparently very annoying to some, so I get my fair shair of hate. But at least when it’s thrown my way, I get that some people think I’m a dick.
But you have always been a straight up, no bullshit kind of guy. Honestly we need more admins like you.
You’re one of the reason that this instance is the best instance on Lemmy.
I look at a lot of your measured responses and always tell myself that I should respond to people that way. But I never do, cuz I also devolve and always end up saying shit like, “You keep crying. I’ll keep posting. Please block me if you don’t like me.” lmao
Stay strong, brother!
I look at a lot of your measured responses and always tell myself that I should respond to people that way. But I never do, cuz I also devolve and always end up saying shit like, “You keep crying. I’ll keep posting. Please block me if you don’t like me.” lmao
Quoting this for posterity.
I can’t think of anything more american than complaining about anti-american bias while accusing everyone else of just being jealous
Thank God, they bought it - Russian agent imaqtpie
While you are probably correct that criticism of the USA (and of its citizens) pops up too often in unrelated topics, I think that you are basically just discovering what it is to not be the ultra dominant demographics on a platform. It doesn’t mean it’s right or anything, everyone should strive to make Lemmy a welcoming place, but it’s certainly going to take work on both sides. That said, I would like you to re-read some of what you wrote:
and their obvious jealousy and insecurity regarding Americans
For one thing, my command of the English language rules that out, which isn’t something I can say about many of you.
America controls the world, and Europeans are salty about it. I didn’t even realize how salty until I started using Lemmy
I swear to God I’ma start criticizing the metric system again
The amount of condescension dripping from your comments is frankly off the chart, and you should maybe take a minute to ponder whether you are actually behaving as you preach, rather than just being in your own American circlejerk, as you might have called it had the shoe been on the other foot.
In any way, being an admin/mod is a thankless task, so I for one appreciate you for doing that, and maybe everyone can learn a bit from sharing a community.
You might be on to something with the demographic make-up of the platform. There are a lot of users from countries outside the US and for Americans used to seeing the opinions, primarily, of other Americans being the norm, it can seem like an attack on the country and their colossal fuck-ups recently are an attack on Americans, themselves.
It seems similar to the backlash felt by a lot of minorities when given rights closer to, or equal of, whites in this country. I don’t have a pony in this race, but it seems this is just human nature. We just don’t like competition and American exceptionalism is ingrained in almost every school book we are presented with.
That being said, I think you could point to some people being assholes to others. Just as I don’t blame all citizens of Jerusalem for the genocide in Gaza, nor all Russians for the invasion of Ukraine, nor all Americans for tRump, I think some people equate the citizen with the government like some sort of sports rivalry or deeply ingrained tribalism.
This is, however, just the opinion of an American who took off their rose-colored, exceptionalism glasses a long time ago.
“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
Removed by mod
There’s for sure some of that conflation happening, but I don’t think it can be ascribed to any particular group, it’s just a bad habit/process a lot of people use regardless of where they’re from. I don’t have a solution for that, and I doubt it’s something you can correct on an online social media platform.
Assholes will be assholes, we don’t need to put them in an American or euro or whatever else case to recognize them as such and deal with them.
Good comment.
Reminds of when LW realized their instance is not hosted in the USA but managed by a Dutch team using a German provider on Finnish servers.
As always, !AskUSA@discuss.online for US specific conversations.
That’s fair, but somehow I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans. It seems like such behavior would inevitably be downvoted, as it should be.
But when it comes to Americans, it’s open season for people to take pot shots, and it always gets upvoted regardless of its accuracy.
I was being condescending at times, because people were throwing around insane accusations of me being a russian plant and refusing to acknowledge any validity to the complaints being voiced. Why shouldn’t I condescend those who spread senseless vitriol for no apparent reason? They deserve to be criticized and mocked, because that’s exactly what they’re doing to other people. The dude I was talking to literally bullied one of my users into deleting their account, then tried to put me on blast for no reason. I have more than enough justification to treat people such as those with disdain.
You all seem to implicitly think I’m somehow proud or bragging about America being the largest economic and military force in the world. That’s not even remotely the case, I think it’s entirely fucked. But that’s the world we live in. I’m just trying to explain what I’ve experienced and observed here, and understand what is causing that behavior.
I’ve read plenty cricism of the US, China, Russia, Mexico and some of canada, Ukraine, France, Spain, Germany, Denmark, Norway, India, Australia, Taiwan, Japan, Brazil, Venezuela. Those I can think on top of my head.
If you don’t see any hatred against anything besides the US, without trying to be too disrespectful, open your eyes.
That’s fair, but somehow I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans
Because you only speak English, not German, Dutch, Italian or French (or at least, aren’t actively posting in those communities with this account). And, rather ironically, that’s a very common thing to see in Americans.
I’ve never seen a German post about how few people are commenting on (negative) events in Sweden, because they realize that most people commenting on Swedish events are Swedes are posting in Swedish, in Swedish forums, and not Germans posting in German in German forums, except when it occasionally makes the German newpapers.
That’s a decent argument, but America isn’t the only nationality that speaks English natively. Canada, NZ, Britain, Ireland, Australia all exist and the type of behavior I’m talking about doesn’t get directed towards them. Furthermore, English is the primary language of internet discourse. Lemmy has potential to move beyond that paradigm, but the vast majority of content still remains in English, and the vast majority of users speak English, even if it’s not their native language.
More importantly, I want to clarify my meaning, because you seem to be misinterpreting. People commenting on negative events in America is fine with me, I have no problem with that. It’s when people say crazy out of pocket shit in unrelated threads and get upvoted for it that I become annoyed.
I didn’t want to put anyone specific on trial here, so I didn’t mention it until now, but there was one specific user who provides a good example of this behavior. A few months ago I rebuked him for his constant insults and hating on Americans. I was able to find dozens of aggressive, insensitive comments that he had just made within the previous couple weeks. I won’t name him in this comment, but if you read through this thread you’ll know.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/26023070/14232483
First of all, note the 10 downvotes u/ferret received for making the simple, factual observation that the US has the largest population of English speakers in the world by a significant margin. That seems a bit unwarranted, no?
Then, when I provide the evidence of this user’s persistent toxicity towards Americans at the end of the thread, everybody who was downvoting us suddenly fades into the woodwork and pretends it never happened. That’s fucking gaslighting, people talk mad shit and then when they get called out they just run away and act like it never happened. I’m gonna transcribe that vitriol again, because I’m sick of people acting like I’m being super sensitive and it’s only because of my American privilege and it’s just the same shit that other nationalities deal with. It’s not normal, it’s abusive and pathological hatred and it’s only acceptable when directed towards Americans.
spoiler
Glock pistols popular in US because of the proliferation of fucking cowards
Scared of their own fucking shadows, those pussies
What’s the difference between a cow and 9/11
You’d stop milking a cow after 23 years
Seems a bit unnecessary when you could just dress the ivy up like schoolkids and the yanks would wipe it out in a week
German
I’m guessing a yank whose great great great great great great grandfather once wiped his cock on a strudel
They’re using American weapons, they should just aim for schools
Holy fuck, yanks are weird
God I’d hate to have such poor reading comprehension. You’d last about a minute in UK based communities lol
You’re not out of the dark ages, you quivering shitebag lol
You mean prison slavery? That’s the US, get on it lol
Did it come out of the States?
If so, guaranteed utter fucking horseshit
You can punch your hand through your plasterboard mate lol
You can always spot an American because they’re so fuckin scared of everything. Look, this one’s scared of his own shite 😂
Of course!
Just lose the -
- Guns
- Tiny-penis trucks
- the “right” to hate-speech
- the religious weirdo thing
And you’ll be getting close to the 20th century!
Know how yous get upset when people say “Americans are stupid”
Literally a third of you have demonstrated that you’d eat gravel if someone said it’d cure immigrants
A third. So lets just say only half of the other two thirds are stupid
That’s quite a few. Almost a quarter pounder
Yous cunts are greedy to the point of being fuckin EVIL
That’s just… evil, taking money from poor folk and their kids
How are yous letting evil cunts do this to your fellow citizens? How are you not fucking getting the flaming torches out?
Selfish fucking cunts, the lot of you. Stand up for not just yourselves, for all of yous
The bot is only “spreading misinformation” to people who are too stupid to realise that “left” and “right” mean politically different things in different countries
Mostly the yanks
I feel really sorry for this guy
What kind of unhinged parents call their kid Tyreek?
Again, that’s just from a single user over a period of 2-3 weeks. This kind of attitude is pervasive across Lemmy, and it’s a big problem because it drives away a lot of potential users.
See if you can find me an example of another Lemmy user who is on a crusade like that against a different nationality. Not just a reasonable criticism of a political or economic event, but someone who is actively going out of their way to insult and berate one specific nationality. Because I’d wager I could find dozens more lemmings that constantly act that way towards Americans if I really wanted to.
But when it comes to Americans, it’s open season for people to take pot shots, and it always gets upvoted regardless of its accuracy.
It was once possible to see the rise of fascism in the United States as something that was being amplified by media, amplified by foreign influence, amplified by propaganda, amplified by whoever made the most noise on Facebook.
Then the election happened, and Trump won. The reality that Americans as a whole are much shittier than previously imagined became undeniable, and that has really upset a lot of people’s worldview (myself included).
Trump’s federal cases got dismissed, and now his sentence for 34 felonies in New York State is “go on your merry way.” Fascism isn’t looming in the distance somewhere anymore; it’s literally eight days away as of this writing.
So yeah, it’s open season for people to take pot shots, especially when the US has been promoting itself on the world stage for decades as the height of moral superiority. And it’s very easy for people to conflate “Americans” with “an American”. If a specific person in a specific context is making that kind of conflatory (yeah, that’s a word) mistake continually, I may point it out, but I generally understand and I’m willing to give it a pass for the moment.
Yeah. You never know which type of American you have, but I’d guess the correlation of being on Lemmy is more likely someone that did not vote for fascism. I definitely understand citizens of other countries being bitter and/or upset.
I’d guess the correlation of being on Lemmy is more likely someone that did not vote for fascism.
And honestly, imo, more likely to criticize the US as an American. A lot of the criticism on here is coming from inside the country.
That’s fair, but somehow I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans.
You might just not hang out in the right places to see it, but anywhere there’s a European political community, you will see plenty of shit talk and hate and blame being thrown around, especially towards the bigger euro countries like Germany, France and the UK (though not limited to).
I’m not saying there isn’t a good explanation as to why you might have been condescending, or that you are a dumb proud maga American, or anything of the sort, but keep in mind that we can’t guess what you might be thinking, all we have to go on is what you write and some of it that I highlighted does make you look a certain way.
anywhere there’s a European political community, you will see plenty of shit talk and hate and blame being thrown around, especially towards the bigger euro countries like Germany, France and the UK (though not limited to).
Also, those communities discuss in their own language, that OP probably doesn’t read
I think this shouldn’t underestimated. Even as someone fluent in English I am much more likely to criticize my own country and/or neighboring countries relevant to my own country’s politics in my country’s language than in English.
In lemmy, besides Germany I wouldn’t bet on it. The local language communities are pretty much dead besides german ones tbh.
I think this comment you replied to summarizes things well.
I’ll reiterate here that pot shots towards Americans would generally be “punching up” in some contexts, which usually isn’t as frowned upon as punching down.
Also consider that it could be, uh…self-punching? It could be Americans poking fun at themselves, being unhappy with the current state of the country (and who is set to become president – Elon Musk as vizier, with Trump returning for the pictures).
Yea I’m sure there are a lot of Americans hating on ourselves, the type of Americans who use Lemmy tend to be pretty pissed off at the direction of the country. But it still contributes to a really exhausting, depressing atomosphere at times. Not to mention unbalanced/biased
It can certainly be depressing at times but on the other hand not nearly as depressing as a complete disconnect between the bleak reality you observe yourself and overly positive portrayal in media (social or otherwise).
It doesn’t need to be a competition.
For me, as an American, it’s easier for me to criticize America. I’m familiar with it and I can bring receipts. I will criticize certain actions of other countries but it feels wrong to start generalizing as I have neither the knowledge or experience of their day-to-day, culture, politics, etc.
I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans.
French bashing from 9 days ago: https://feddit.org/post/6408713/3945015
Just remember this one, I can find out countless other examples when I have more time
The dude I was talking to literally bullied one of my users into deleting their account, then tried to put me on blast for no reason.
If there was such heavy bullying, how come that this user didn’t get banned from SJW?
They deserve to be criticized and mocked, because that’s exactly what they’re doing to other people.
Just to make sure: because one of your users bullied another one, you made a derogatory statement towards a whole content?
That’s a shame, OP, you always seem like a pretty collected and calm voice, it’s disappointing to hear you’re a dang dirty fed/commie/fascist/Russian/Chinese/Soros/Thiel agent.
Neighbor: “He seemed so normal…” Background is full of barbie dolls hanging from the porch, the azaleas…
Nooo, not the Barbies 🥺
Oh, look who’s back! I thought you had left for good, that might have been part of why I’ve been so depressive lately 😅
Ha, I just retired from modding NCD, you’ll never be rid of me. In the immortal words of Baby Cookie, “I live inna walls, u gonna hafta get me out with a priest!”
Well this is awkward, I was actually talking to Margot… 😅. But I would be equally depressed if you were to leave, verity. Obligatory shout out to @Cracks_InTheWalls, another one of my favorites.
It’s nice to have funny and kind people on Lemmy. The battle for levity is never-ending, and more brave soldiers fall to misery with each passing day. But a well placed shitpost can usually revive our fallen comrades.
Wait, you’re American?! Get outta here, you non-hoser! blocked
Kidding, of course - you’re one of my favourites too. Think you could’ve chosen your words more carefully in the OP exchange - jealousy is a bit of a trigger word, it’s more that the U.S.’ reputation internationally is … sketchy, even before the last periods of particular sketchiness. But some people just expand this to all individual Americans, which isn’t fair - most Americans I’ve met are just normal people just as bewildered as the rest of us are at the state of the world (and the U.S’ place in it).
Edit - story to illustrate my point. There’s a psych band from the U.S. that did a show here not too long ago. Started off by saying “We’re [band name I’ve forgotten] from the U.S.A.”. There was silence, then a few low-key, almost confused sounding 'woo’s. The lead then said “Woo? Hell, I wouldn’t woo at that right now.”
Feel this sentiment isn’t that uncommon.
Yeah jealousy was not the best word to use. And also it’s understandable that people don’t want to cheer on the US or Americans at all.
But on the other hand, the change that we are all looking for is going to have to ultimately come from Americans on some level. There isn’t any plausible way that another nation can violate the geopolitical status quo in a major way without the US leveraging its economic and military power to prevent things from being disrupted. That’s been proven many times by all of the interventions the US has done towards communist states and parties all around the world. Any kind of revolutionary political or economic movement in another country is likely to get sabotaged by American espionage, military force, or economic sanctions.
So at the end of the day, acting all angry towards Americans just reinforces the current system, because it causes people to dig in their heels and change from a progressive mindset to a defensive one. You need to have Americans on the inside to effect change, and Lemmings are the type of Americans who are already walking that path, only to get shoved off the path by tankies and others who continually abuse them, until they get sick of it and return to the corporate internet, where they can at least feel some superficial validation. In an ideal world, people wouldn’t be so weak-minded, but they are, and we need to understand that if we are interested in changing their opinions, and ultimately the changing the nature of the government that they allow to exist.
Word. Powerful message I’d like to see pinned everywhere at this time of year. Might help a user to put off doing something drastic for another day. Of course, I’d give such a message a Christian spin and ruin it. XD
I’m an American. I’m not one of the “good” Americans, though, since I’m disabled, not Christian, not capitalist, and not white. I’ve spent my whole life getting shit on as a third-class citizen by Americans steeped in American culture and public school education that has, at every turn, preached American exceptionalism and pulling oneself up by their bootstraps while totally ignoring every benefit offered to them and withheld from people like me.
I think that you’ve been lucky so far, but now that you’re being asked to sit the fuck down and listen while other people talk, you’re taking it badly. After a lifetime of privilege, it’s really easy to mistake being brought into line with everybody else’s equality for oppression; please don’t do that. It’s a bad look and sets you up to feel bad unnecessarily.
There are like 8 billion people on this planet and you’re one of about 330 million Americans. It’s pretty reasonable that your perspective isn’t the majority opinion, and that other people from other countries may also think their home is the best possible place to live and everyone else is an unlucky chump. Instead of dismissing all the critical comments as the kvetching of the jealous, unwashed masses outside your borders, it may help to look at them as nothing more than other people sharing their own viewpoints. Also, reading about events like Juneteenth, the MOVE bombing, the Kent State massacre, the Jackson State killings, and the Tulsa massacre may help you better understand why people from other places side eye Americans.
And seriously, the metric system is based on the physical properties of Earth and base 10 counting, not dead oppressors.
the metric system is based on the physical properties of Earth
Not really. Official units are defined in that kind of way (a metre used to be a certain fraction of the circumference of the Earth, though it’s now a certain amount of time travelled at light speed), but the definitions are arbitrary and used to justify defining the base unit how we want it. Metric’s superiority has nothing to do with metres being better than yards or kilogrammes being better than pounds. It’s this part:
and base 10 counting
As well as the fact that derived units all fit together nicely.
Woosh
So, you want the opinion of an average sh.itjustworks user? Well, here it comes.
First and foremost, I think you should let it go and calm down. I know from personal experience, arguing with strangers on the internet can be exhausting and it can rile you up. It’s not worth it.
And I’ve noticed an increase in inciteful troll posts on Lemmy in the past few days. The goal of those is to destroy the community by sowing division and hatred and these posts seem to come from both sides of the political spectrum. It doesn’t really matter what political flavor the content seems to be because the purpose is simply to break things. Those are troll posts and the content is designed to provoke anger and hatred. We should be careful not to fall into this trap, as an international community.
Thank you, that’s a balanced take and I appreciate the advice.
I have to say, the first paragraph of your reply does not give the impression that you want to argue in good faith…
I agree wholeheartedly. My assumption was that such behavior was simply a symptom of the relatively larger proportion of Europeans on this site, and their obvious jealousy and insecurity regarding Americans. I still believe that is the most likely explanation.
That sounds like you think all Europeans are jealous of Americans, and that they have good reason to. It comes off as troll-ish at the very least.
I wasn’t arguing, I was agreeing with the OP and suggesting that rather than Russian/Chinese agents, there was a more likely source of the hatred.
I don’t think all Europeans are anything, they are a very diverse group. I’m just trying to understand why people act the way they do on Lemmy, based on what I’ve observed over the past year or so. When you see aggresively angry takes being highly upvoted in random threads for seemingly no reason, you search for a psychological rationale, and that was my conclusion. As I said, I would be salty about America too, if I wasn’t born here. We’re fucking up big time, and the rest of the world is along for the ride. But berating people on Lemmy isn’t likely to change anything for the better.
I know that I could have come off more diplomatically, but it’s a bit rich to accuse me of trolling for reacting strongly to a slew of personal insults and attacks that never seems to end. You’re lucky that I even bother to respond, unlike the thousands of Americans who silently perceived that they weren’t welcome on this site and slunk back to reddit.
I’m trying to help you understand how you’re making people feel, regardless of whether your behavior is caused by jealousy or some other emotion. The constant picking apart of my words without addressing the meat of my argument is exhausting, and everyone has a breaking point where they just don’t wanna deal with it anymore.
Would you care to speculate how your psychoanalysis of Internet commenters leading you to describe them with what would generally be regarded as personal insults–jealous, insecure, immature, assholes, smug bastards, emotional–makes people feel? In this discussion about how you desire for people to be nicer to each other, it’s worth considering.
To be clear, toxic people are majorly unpleasant and you’re right to call people out for throwing around personal insults in a place where we hopefully all want to come to have to or see civil interactions and maybe sometimes have a bit of fun.
You’re right, I know that I might appear to be hitting out at a lot of people who don’t deserve it with my comments. I should probably never use the term Europeans again, because it’s far too generalized and it makes it seem like an us vs. them situation, which is not my intention. But that was the most accurate term I could come up with.
I know that it’s not Americans who are claiming that we didn’t do shit in WWII and so on. I know it’s not Americans who are clutching their pearls when I declare that America has an overwhelming influence over global geopolitics. It’s people who are reading ulterior motives into my words that are actually coming from their own subconscious insecurities and biases.
Anyways, that was a fair and reasonable response on your part, and I commend you for it.
I’m American, we are rapidly turning into this century’s Nazi Germany.
This is not a drill, pay attention to reality
I just see memes, no drama. Guess it depends on what you watch.
America is fun to make fun of, having hardly any vacations even, and thinking public Healthcare is communism. :) But I prefer them very much to Russia or China, that’s for damn sure. They may love their money but they are usually not kidnapping and killing their own people.
If they want to work all their life for their money, ok. :) I dream of getting out of the hamster wheel, personally.
I don’t really care about this kind of drama here. I think people are allowed to have opinions. Attacks on people based on -isms are not cool, but let’s be real… aren’t jokes that target Americans punching up in some of the contexts you’re referring to? And that’s usually fair game.
As for jealousy towards Americans, I truly don’t believe that’s the case.
If there were underlying jealousy, it’d be more towards the country being relatively safe during WW2, having not been bombed or invaded the way Europe was, and having that massive advantage as it grew as a nation.
The success of the USA is generally because of its geographical location and the unfortunate economic conditions that hit Europe due to WW2. I don’t think it’s really because of anything special about American people or American culture.
I think people can be upset with Americans the way that people can be upset with trust fund kids who tell less fortunate people to pick themselves up by the bootstraps.
With that said… can’t you make comments without revealing yourself as an admin? I feel like that’s just going to trigger some people, lol
With that said… can’t you make comments without revealing yourself as an admin? I feel like that’s just going to trigger some people, lol
I dunno, there’s an option to “speak as moderator” but I literally never turn it on. But I figured if people click on my profile they can probably see.
It adds that little shield thing but as I said, I never use it.
I think jealousy was the wrong word to use, but saltiness feels more appropriate. It’s precisely because of the fact that America is only in its current position due to a series of recent historical events that makes it more frustrating for non-Americans. They seem to feel that we are undeserving of our wealth and power, and that they would do a better job if they were running this country.
I get the trust fund analogy, but what about the trust fund kid who donates a lot of money to charity and gets a medical degree and serves underprivileged communities in developing countries? It seems to me that many lemmings would still shit on that person just because of their birth, regardless of the fact that they’re trying to do the right thing.
That’s what I find frustrating, because it’s so counterproductive. If you still get shit on just for being American even when you’re actively trying to escape the corporate machine that controls every aspect of our lives and to connect with alternative viewpoints via Lemmy, you start to wonder why you should even bother.
All of your comments show up to me as having a red username, where everyone else is blue. I’m in Voyager. Either your role is permanently showing in my app, or you’ve got something messed up with the settings. Maybe the shield means “Hide your mod status” and you’ve got it backwards?
As for the benevolent trust fund kid…you’re only focusing on the good. Others are only focusing on the bad. Both are wrong. And I don’t think getting into the exact ratio would be productive, lol
I do empathize with the challenges of trying to feel like part of a community while being “othered” like that. I think the best thing you could do is to not have your username be glowing red for everyone.
Whenever a mod comes in commenting with their mod colour turned on, it makes it look like the mod is implying “Whatever I’m saying here is more important than anyone else’s comment because I’m a mod”. Whether you intend it or not, that’s how it can come across. And to anyone who has issues with authority (which will be a LOT of people here, lol), that’s just putting a target on your back.
You can’t change the comments that people post, but you can influence the kinds of replies you get.
Hmm, that’s interesting. It’s definitely from your app, I’m not confusing the settings. When I click the “Speak as mod” button, the shield appears. I assume that Voyager just automatically displays all admins in red.
Unfortunately, I don’t think there is any way for me to hide my admin status, at least in the current Lemmy version. And honestly, there probably shouldn’t be. It might also be because you have a local SJW account, while users from other servers would only see their local admins in red. Idk.
I appreciate the advice and you’ve got a good point, but it’s never really been a problem for me before. One of the best things about Lemmy is that the admins aren’t so high and mighty that they don’t interact with normal users.
I was just a normal user when I first joined, and then I got elected as a moderator of TheAgora, and then TheDude eventually appointed me as an admin to help manage the server. Then eventually I appointed kerploosh and InEnduringGrowStrong later on, who were also just normal SJW users up until then. I’m very proud of the fact that our admins are just normal users who enjoy Lemmy and are trying to help the server flourish in any way we can. There may come a point where we grow to a size where that approach is no longer tenable, but at the current growth rate, I don’t see it happening any time soon.
I agree with the other commenter. Make an alt account or five, at least for some of the more “spicy” comments.
I don’t write here like I would on Instagram where my friends would see it, or like I would on Facebook where my family would see it, or like I would on LinkedIn where my professional network would see it.
I have different accounts where I can post different crap because different people can see it and I’d have to be accountable to them for what aspects of me they’re seeing.
Unfortunately, being an admin means people hold you to a different standard. Like a cop walking around with a uniform and badge on while trying to party in a frat house.
Sorry but I just replied to the same suggestion so I’m just gonna copy paste my reply below
In general, I agree, but I’m concerned with the prevalence of vote manipulation and shithousing on this site, and I feel like my past track record on this account is one of the only ways for me to protect myself from the constant baseless accusations of being a Russian shill, being a right winger, etc.
I feel that someone needs to be able to counter the increasing tendency towards absolute ideological purity that is strangling this platform, and if people don’t know me from a hole in the wall, it’ll be that much easier to discredit me when I try to criticize the circlejerking that goes on here.
In other words, I’m a human being, and I have opinions, and I’m flawed. But that doesn’t mean I can’t or don’t try my best to act objectively and in the best interests of the server when I’m performing my admin duties. That’s reality, and hiding behind alt accounts just to pretend that I’m a pure paragon of justice on my admin account isn’t really my style, and I don’t really see how it would benefit anyone.
And just in response to your comment specifically, I don’t view my actions over the past few days as having been “spicy” takes, or exhibiting an attitude of partying in a frat house. Some of the things I said were quite frank, yes, but I only came out and said them because I felt that people needed to hear them and respond to them for the good of Lemmy.
As much as people won’t ever believe me in this, I probably wouldn’t have even said any of that crap if I was just a normal user, because personally, I don’t really get upset easily, and I don’t go out of my way seeking confrontation. It’s the fact that I am an admin that led me to speak out, because I feel like these behaviors are harmful to my users who I’m supposed to advocate for and protect, and harmful to the success of Lemmy, which I’m deeply invested in through my role as an admin.
It’s the fact that I am an admin that led me to speak out, because I feel like these behaviors are harmful to my users who I’m supposed to advocate for and protect, and harmful to the success of Lemmy, which I’m deeply invested in through my role as an admin.
The intent might be good, but the execution was definitely lacking. And why can’t normal users advocate for Lemmy? Is that an admin privilege?
The party at the frat house is Lemmy. You’re the cop, haha
I get where you’re coming from. Saying it as an admin will draw more attention to your comment, as you know, but I think it’ll backfire more often than not by bringing more negative attention.
You’ll also be more likely to bring out reactance in people, I imagine.
Spicy wasn’t the right word, but you commented because you felt your opinion needed to be heard, which suggests it might be unpopular with some audiences.
Saying it because you’re an admin is one thing. Saying it as a admin will draw attention that’ll probably be more negative than not, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, I don’t think there is any way for me to hide my admin status, at least in the current Lemmy version.
You could use an alt to comment, and another account to admin/mod. Your current account shows with the M mod, and I’m not on your instance.
I personally mod using alts, to limit the reach of potential drama should I have controversial takes, or heated discussions with other users.
As you probably noticed, one of the element that made the drama blow up was you making derogatory comments using your admin account. Would this has been on a normal account, the impact would probably have been much lower.
Lemm.ee and Lemmy.zip usually get praised on their invisible admins. You see them post the updates about the servers from time to time, but that’s it.
The success of the USA is generally because of its geographical location and the unfortunate economic conditions that hit Europe due to WW2.
Do not forget slavery. This is huge to the success of the US.
I find people who’s personality is “anti-X” or “fuck-Y” are usually not enjoyable to be around.
There’s plenty of those on Lemmy, yes. But thankfully just a loud minority. Banning them (as a user), made Lemmy much more enjoyable.
Honestly, people who are unequivocally pro-X or “why are you always critizing Y” are much worse overall, especially when X and Y are governments, companies or otherwise groups that the person isn’t even really a part of.
Then better ban all of Europe. Right now America is giving us even more reason to be anti-American.
Create your own little echo chamber where you can convince yourself America doesn’t deserve every bit of anti-American hate it’s getting.
Girl, I’m from Belgium :)
It takes quite the ego to pretend to speak for all of europe
I’m from Belgium
No you’re not. Everyone knows Belgium doesn’t exist, especially Belgians.
Then where does their chocolate come from?!
Switzerland
Please be my first Belgian friend, you don’t have to give me lambics or anything.
Well, I never said there weren’t also right-wing losers in Europe. The only reason why someone like Musk can make an attempt at getting his little claws in here is because there are a few “sympathetic” voices around.
It’s up to the majority, then, to collectively stick up their middle fingers and say fuck off!
You’re free to join them, if you like Americans so much.
So you agree that as a product of South Africa, Musk is ultimately the fault of the Dutch.
The Dutch from several centuries ago, perhaps. But Muskrat should be held accountable for his own actions.
Then better ban all of Europe. Right now America is giving us even more reason to be anti-American.
Aren’t there several European countries with the problem of far-right parties gaining power in their governments? Germany literally just stripped firearm rights from their version of these groups earlier this week
Germany literally just stripped firearm rights from their version of these groups earlier this week
Any source on that? Couldn’t find anything in a quick search.
About your question, I asked the Germans how the situation was there with the upcoming February election: https://feddit.org/post/6479021
America isn’t a true democracy. There’s gerrymandering, and electoral college, and first past the post. But it used to have one little bit of democracy left at the federal level. And then America voted for Trump.
Kamala didn’t even get the popular vote. Because Americans didn’t think it was worth trying to win that like they did in 2016. The popular vote is the bragging rights to say the government doesn’t represent the people, and Americans didn’t want it.
So, Americans chose to be thought of by the world as fascists. Not all of them, but most of them didn’t get up and choose otherwise. Few enough said no, that more were able to say yes. The default American image is a fascist. Nobody should be beholden to a default image, but that is the starting point. The mode average.
That’s actually reassuring to hear, coming from you.
You’re welcome ^-^
this is a nitpick, but Trump actually closely lost the popular vote once all sources were fully accounted for.
Your source says Trump won the popular vote.
Harris got 74.46m votes and Trump got 76.94m votes in the graph.
And the US Election Atlas claims 77.1m for Trump and 74.7m Harris.
This was actually the next link down, but the one I went to post retracted since I read it. So yes, my post was incorrect.
And close or not, Trump did win the popular vote, and we just have to accept it and move on. (and no, I didn’t vote for him.)
Yeah, the place i had originally read it now shows a retraction based on a bad report, replied a little further down
Yep, I see your reply now. Didn’t see it before. Good on ya for noticing it. Thanks!
With 96% of the vote in, Trump has, according to the Associated Press, 49.97% to Vice President Harris’ 48.36%, or 76.9 million votes to 74.4 million.
Drag can’t find your statement in this article. Did you send the right one?
And all the bigoted right wing European governments are what?
All the unelected head of states in Europe are democratic?
You’re right, monarchs aren’t democratic. Which means, monarchs have no claim to represent the will of the people. The English have no choice in who King Charles is, so he doesn’t reflect on them. The Americans had a choice in Trump and they decided they wanted him over Kamala. So he’s reflective of who they are.
Monarchs are still popular enough to keep their symbolic role, otherwise they would have been disposed.
The topic regularly comes up in the UK, Belgium, Spain, Denmark etc. The usual consensus in those countries is that the monarchy brings some stability between the governments. Also, when you look at the French and the lifetime salaries and benefits they pay their former presidents, republics are not automatically that much cheaper.
Monarchs are still popular enough to keep their symbolic role, otherwise they would have been disposed.
Not necessarily. This just means that the issue of the monarchy isn’t important enough to most people to start a violent revolution over it or make it their main issue to vote on (if there even are parties making it part of their agenda to remove the monarchy).
A big part of the issue is: what do you replace it with, if you remove the monarch?
It’s an issue that comes up a lot here in Australia, where not only do we have a monarch; we have a monarch who isn’t from this country and does not care for this country. You’d think getting rid of the monarch would be a no brainer. But what do we do instead?
Most politically-aware Australians look at America and decide quite clearly: a directly elected President with significant political powers is a bad idea. The Parliamentary system is a good one. But would that mean directly electing a Governor-General who keeps the powers that role has today? As we saw in 1975, that’s actually quite considerable power, kept in check today mainly because it is extremely unpopular and is seen as undemocratic due to the unelected nature of the role to use those powers too freely. But it doesn’t exactly feel right to some people (myself not included) to keep the current system, only change it from “Monarch appoints a Governor General on the advice of the Prime Minister” to “Prime Minister appoints a Governor General”. That makes it feel to some to be more politicised. Appointment by 2/3rds majority of Parliament could also work.
There are some who genuinely would like an American system, too, of course.
The difficulty is in getting people to agree not just to make a change, but on what that change should look like. Most Australians are very conservative, in the sense of “it seems to work, let’s not risk it by changing it.”
I’ve also seen some people suggest moving to an Australian monarch. The Irwin family has been suggested, or the Warnes, given how iconicly Australian Steve Irwin and Shane Warne were. Personally, I like to jokingly say we should go with the Abney-Hastings, the male-preference primogeniture descendants of the Plantaginet line of British monarchs, who would be on the British throne today were claims that Edward IV was illegitimate to have been taken seriously at the time. And who currently reside in rural Victoria.
The difficulty is in getting people to agree not just to make a change, but on what that change should look like.
This is certainly a component in most political decisions favoring the status quo too, that is a good point. By definition there is only one status quo but many options for alternatives that might not each have a majority of its own even if the sum of their proponents might be larger than the people actually favoring the status quo itself.
Both can be true, depends on the country.
In Spain for instance 58% of the population supports maintaining the monarchy: https://euroweeklynews.com/2024/01/06/what-does-spain-think-about-its-monarchy/
But to be honest, the whole monarchy thing is exaggerated when you look at the map
And all the bigoted right wing European governments are what?
Which ones? At the moment I only see Italy and Hungary.
France’s far-right can’t come to power as the other two third of the Parliament is Left and Center blocks.
UK is labour: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Keir_Starmer
The Dutch are in a coalition with the Centrists and the Farmers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoof_cabinet
Germany has to vote again in February: https://feddit.org/post/6479021?scrollToComments=true
Even Austria has a Centrist government: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehammer_government
The European Parliament 2 first groups are Center-Right and Left: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_European_Parliament
All the unelected head of states in Europe are democratic?
Which ones? The kings and queens who have no political powers, or the prime ministers who come from the party with the most votes?
Unelected heads of state is clear. I did not say heads of government.
History shows us that racism is to Europe as fish are to the sea.
Unelected heads of state is clear.
So the kings and queens who hold no political power?
History shows us that racism is to Europe as fish to the sea.
Racism was everywhere during human history.
No sir, that is a lie.
Modern racism is very much rooted in European pseudo-scientific bullshit.
And those kings and queens do hold power, unofficially, off the books. It’s called corruption when it happens elsewhere but as we know Europeans are too pure and righteous to engage in corruption (at home), they only do it abroad when lobbying for contracts illegally…
Modern racism is very much rooted in European pseudo-scientific bullshit.
Feel free to provide sources.
And those kings and queens very much hold power, unofficially, off the books.
When that happens, the king abdicates. Happened in Spain not too long ago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdication_of_Juan_Carlos_I
It’s called corruption when it happens elsewhere but as we know Europeans are too pure and righteous to engage in corruption (at home), they only do it abroad when lobbying for contracts illegally.
Oh, don’t worry, we have plenty of corruption at home too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_corruption_scandal_at_the_European_Parliament
The one thing the European Union still hasn’t do is elect a leader similar to Trump (especially a convicted felon). As stated above, the European Parliament isn’t dominated by the far-right, and only 2 countries are currently governed by full far-right coalitions.
Phrenology and “Scientific Racism” in the 19th Century https://pages.vassar.edu/realarchaeology/2017/03/05/phrenology-and-scientific-racism-in-the-19th-century/
The familiar paradigm of five human races was born in the year 1795—at the transitional moment between the rationality of the Enlightenment and the emotional fervour of Romanticism—when a German doctor, Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, set out the distinct characteristics of those groups he called Caucasians Mongolians, Ethiopians, Americans, and Malays. https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/23/the-science-of-race-and-the-racism-of-science/
(Line deleted due to sensitive Europeans :p)
And you found the one example of a monarch being forced to abdicate and ignored the dozens (if not hundreds) of cases of European monarchs interceding in the political process and not facing any sanctions. Or worse, actively breaking the law of the land and then being protected from prosecution as was the case with Prince Andrew of England when his mother ensured that he faced no real investigation into his alleged proclivities. https://www.republic.org.uk/royal_corruption_inquiry_call_following_andrew_revelations
Lords of War: The British Monarchy And The Arms Trade https://theowp.org/reports/lords-of-war-the-british-monarchy-and-the-arms-trade/
What’s wrong with Britain? Let’s start with the monarchy https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/whats-wrong-with-britain-lets-start-with-the-monarchy/
King Charles and Prince William Accused of ‘Corruption’ Over Their Millions https://www.newsweek.com/king-charles-prince-william-document-trove-sparks-backlash-over-their-millions-1979681
