• Ech@lemm.eeEnglish
    1392·
    1 year ago

    5.0.1: Before using the website, remember you will be interacting with actual, real people and communities. Lemmy.World is not a place for you to attack other groups of people. Every one of our users has a right to browse and interact with the website and all of its contents free of treatment such as harassment, bullying, violation of privacy or threats of violence.

    • MrMusAddict@lemmy.worldEnglish
      562·
      1 year ago

      In my opinion this is actually better than the CoC. The only thing “missing” is the definition of which qualities you shouldn’t discriminate against. But that’s now generalized into “groups of people”.

      I still can’t discriminate against people based on any qualification. Hell, I technically can’t discriminate against “pineapple on pizza eaters”.

      • Dharma Curious@startrek.website
        557·
        1 year ago

        Good. Because it’s fucking delicious and I don’t care what the internet says. We all loved it in the 90s, and nothing has changed. It’s still delicious, we just do less coke now.

      • TWeaK@lemm.eeEnglish
        7·
        1 year ago

        By my reading of it, you can still discriminate against pineapple pizza eaters, or any other group whatsoever, you just can’t harass, bully, violate their privacy or threaten them with violence. Which is fine by me, if someone wants to make a community only for ginger haired people and ban anyone they think isn’t naturally ginger, that’s their perogative.

        • AFK BRB Chocolate@lemmy.worldEnglish
          6·
          1 year ago

          That was my takeaway, too, and I think it’s positive. The nice thing is, if it turns out that the policy fosters behavior that’s bad for the broader community, they can change it.

        • xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org
          72·
          1 year ago

          You can discriminate all you want, you just can’t harass, bully, violate privacy or threaten violence.

        • taladar@sh.itjust.works
          51·
          1 year ago

          I think you can’t read it too literally. Otherwise you also can’t discriminate against “people who wrote their comment later” and so you can never stop reading the comments for fear of discriminating between “early comment writers” and “late comment writers”.

          • snooggums@kbin.social
            92·
            1 year ago

            Literal is the only way these things are supposed to be read.

            They could easily fix it by saying “groups (except for those that promote discrimination and/or hate such as nazis and racists)”

        • MrMusAddict@lemmy.worldEnglish
          35·
          1 year ago

          I just replied this to another commenter, but that’s a bad faith argument. The ToS also says to not engage in illegal activity. The admonishment of Nazi’s and Racists is an admonishment of illegal evil.

          • lolcatnip@reddthat.comEnglish
            8·
            1 year ago

            Being a Nazi is not illegal in most jurisdictions. It certainly wasn’t illegal in Nazi Germany.

          • PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lib.lgbtEnglish
            21·
            1 year ago

            Bruh I hate to break this to you but nearly all governments are racist. Have you not heard of what the US did to black people for 300 years?

          • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
            13·
            1 year ago

            Uh, the US has vetoed multiple attempts by the UN to condemn the glorification of Nazis. I hate to break it to you, but Nazis and racists are not illegal.

      • Rivalarrival
        106·
        1 year ago

        Nazis are a group of people. Republicans are a group of people. Pedophiles are a group of people.

        • MrMusAddict@lemmy.worldEnglish
          117·
          1 year ago

          That’s a bad faith argument. The ToS also says to not engage in illegal activity. The admonishment of Nazi’s and Pedophiles is an admonishment of illegal evil.

          Your inclusion of Republicans is a bit of an extreme juxtaposition. Feel free to admonish the individual evil views of Republicans, but to discriminate against Republicans purely for their association is rightly against ToS.

    • boatswain@infosec.pub
      61·
      1 year ago

      Need some context here: is this what we removed, something that’s already somewhere else, a proposed replacement, or something else?

  • Izzy@lemmy.ml
    467·
    1 year ago

    Well they banned me for saying I don’t like ads and called it harassment. They have no idea what they are doing and are not fit to be admins of anything.

      • Izzy@lemmy.ml
        122·
        1 year ago

        Every comment is still available to read at the moment. This doesn’t seem like the place for a long and elaborate recap. That’s pretty much what it boils down to though. The irony is that several people harassed me and they are completely fine with that because it supports their biased opinion. If you look through their comment history they are very supportive of this particular piece of software. So anything against this is bad and must be banned. It likely wouldn’t even matter what it is. They just ban first and justify it later and make up some nonsense such as “harassment”.

        The double irony is that they are going to end up harming lemmy.world and possibly do irreparable damage to the lemmyverse long term and then their friend will no longer be able to profit much from ads.

        • TWeaK@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          Which app are you referring to? Bluesky?

          Mainly I want to know so I can avoid it, although I’m already avoiding Bluesky.

          • Izzy@lemmy.ml
            102·
            1 year ago

            I don’t think BlueSky has ads. At least not yet. The dispute is mainly around the mobile Lemmy app Sync. Which is a mobile UI for lemmy that inserts ads into Lemmy where there previously were none.

            • TWeaK@lemm.eeEnglish
              2·
              1 year ago

              Ah right, fair enough. I hadn’t realised Sync was doing that - I’ve been lazy and stuck with Jerboa.

              The website seems to generally be the best way to browse lemmy anyway, particularly with its continued development. Apps quite often dont’ conform to things lemmy does, like automatically making instance agnostic links out of /c/fediverse@lemmy.ml, or the drop down box for typing a username and sending them a mention.

        • SUKKONDIS@lemm.ee
          11·
          1 year ago

          I didn’t see any other moderators come to your defense? There was a moderator from /c/sciencefiction on lemmy world who came out and said you were toxic and the reason why he left.

          • Izzy@lemmy.ml
            22·
            1 year ago

            Which is baffling. I was only ever kind to him. He left because he said he was sick in the hospital and wouldn’t have time to help. I said ok thank you for your time and get well soon. He made up something about me saying something about COVID. Which makes no sense. Nowhere in Lemmy or discord did I ever mention COVID. I can’t understand his agenda for lying here. Maybe he just also wants to be a power mod to abuse it so he needs to brown nose the admins

    • Kayn@dormi.zone
      93·
      1 year ago

      Unless you provide the exact text you were banned for, I’ll be having my doubts.

    • 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏@lemmy.one
      4·
      1 year ago

      Was this during the sync thing?

      To be honest as a mod or admin I would personally get sick of reading the same things over and over again, with sync fans attacking staunch FOSSers and staunch FOSSers attacking sync fans. It only served to get both sides upset for literally no reason, and fracture the community even more.

      Their inboxes would have also likely been flooded out to death during that time with both sides reporting each other over petty remarks

      Doesn’t make it right, however I can see why it happened. Probably another reason behind the “dont report something unless its against the terms” rule.

      • Izzy@lemmy.ml
        62·
        1 year ago

        I’ve definitely never reported anyone related to this. They came to a FOSS community and then got upset when people criticize the propritizing of FOSS software. They should change the rules to not allow any criticize of the ad business model instead of banning people for made up reasons. 🤷

  • InternetTubes@kbin.social
    241·
    1 year ago

    Seriously, this is the least of its problems, but it certainly hints at them: https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/554307/Just-wanted-a-warning-Lemmy-World-is-perhaps-worse-than-reddit

    Basically, they don’t even follow the examples they set in their Terms of Service and will not only ban but purge your entire comment account on a whim because they didn’t like the criticism they said they were open to on a post stating that “users may express their questions, concerns, requests and issues regarding the Terms of Service, and content moderation in Lemmy.World.” There’s no doubt, they were pretty clear they considered the criticism “disagreeing with the terms of service”.

    Create your user on another instance and save yourself the surprise of encountering admins who abuse their power on a whim. That can be your entire account history down the drain, and the number of comments or the age of the account won’t matter to them.

    • Izzy@lemmy.ml
      183·
      1 year ago

      This is exactly what I experienced when I was part of their top moderator and ban discussion discord channels. They would regularly ban people for little to no reason and then laugh about it and then realize they need to come up with reasons after the fact. This is also how they deal with defederation. They had defederated an instance more than once prior to having any concrete reasons to do so. They operate on gut feeling and disregard their own rules and ToS on the regular.

      Not even Reddit is so unprofessional.

      • InternetTubes@kbin.social
        41·
        1 year ago

        Yeah, I’m really getting the feeling they are just trying to bury it and ignore it. I was having trouble accessing the modlog, but when I was able to, they seemed to have gone through the effort to eliminate a lot of the entries, which included my account purge, ban, and ban reason. They still haven’t even bothered to answer the ticket I put up on tickets.mastodon.world, maybe I’ll add a screenshot to that later to show the ticket status and the time it has spent as unanswered. No admin has replied to me directly, and the closest I’ve seen any admin reply on the issue is to criticize the kbin.social instance as reliable because of the criticism they get on them.

        The real problem is this is being done in bad faith, and if that’s their core drive, then the only thing they’ll do in the future is make-up better sounding excuses to cover their asses.

          • InternetTubes@kbin.social
            2·
            1 year ago

            I’m not sure what’s up, but entries have certainly been removed. This was then: https://web.archive.org/web/20231019235547/https://lemmy.world/modlog

            This was a more recent IWM archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20231021224842/https://lemmy.world/modlog

            Search for “HEISENBERG” in both and then read back through to the most recent to get an idea of how different they are. Some bans are showing up, some aren’t, a lot of them aren’t even there.

            I’m no expert, but modlog isn’t exactly the same across all instances. I think actions like a user getting banned in their home instance do get propagated to the other modlogs, since my ban got propagated to lemmy.ml’s moglog, but this user’s ban in lemmy.world wasn’t.

            I haven’t touched the lemmy code, but seeing what’s mentioned over at https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/2349 , the modlog seems to be just a combination of database tables that are normally maintained server side but, just like in any other database, can be edited manually.

            Only trust the modlog as much as you trust the server you are reading it on.

        • Izzy@lemmy.ml
          31·
          1 year ago

          I shouldn’t be surprised that the primary motivating factor of administrators and power mods is to have and abuse power of users. Lemmy just feels like a failed experiment at this point.

          The only thing left here is unoriginal memes. Which can be amusing, but I don’t think it is enough for Lemmy to survive on long term.

          • InternetTubes@kbin.social
            3·
            1 year ago

            Still, just because an experiment doesn’t have the ideal results doesn’t mean it doesn’t get us closer. Unfortunately, if people are going to trust the server with the best marketing instead looking into issues like this, it pretty much makes it impossible to move on because bad faith actors who are best at lying and cutthroat tactics will be the ones to prevail over people questioning what you are telling them without reading the mountains of evidence you are using to back your claims.

            The rot definitely seems too close to the core with lemmy.

      • SUKKONDIS@lemm.ee
        21·
        1 year ago

        Well I still think it is a bit odd that you can’t really explain why canthidium left your team. It’s obvious there is more to this that you try to deflect from answering by going on about how everyone or everything else is the problem but you. And from canthidium’s comments back then it looks like he just didn’t want to deal with you anymore and that seems credible. Canthidium has some cooking related communities and they seem very chill.

        And tell me, which of the defederation decisions didn’t you agree with?

        • Izzy@lemmy.ml
          21·
          1 year ago

          He left because he was sick and said he was going to be in the hospital and wouldn’t have time. That is what he told me. That is a pretty gross thing to joke about if he is lying. We had little to know interaction outside of discussing what posts to make for what shows and only over a few days.

          Feel free to ask them to provide every single private or public discord message I’ve ever made to them. I’m sure they would likely try to hide it as it would only make them look foolish at best and terrible at worse. They are not good people.

          You can believe whatever it is you need to believe, but there is no way for you to convince me that I myself have done wrong when I know for a fact I have not.

          It should be telling that they are the ones that try to hide things.

      • Ech@lemm.eeEnglish
        213·
        1 year ago

        Interesting you only have a problem with this after you got kicked out. Certainly no reason it could be exaggerated or straight up untrue. 🤔

        • SUKKONDIS@lemm.ee
          32·
          1 year ago

          Even his co-moderator from his sciencefiction community called him toxic. I’m sure there’s more to this

  • qaz@lemmy.world
    175·
    1 year ago

    Have you asked the admins/mods of lemmy.world about this before posting this?

    • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      146·
      1 year ago

      Against their political view that racial bigotry discrimination is bad? I sure hope so.

      • Łumało [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        186·
        1 year ago

        Well they clearly don’t like me saying “From the river to the sea.”

        So are they really against racial bigotry and discrimination?

          • Łumało [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
            102·
            1 year ago

            So will you go from hearsay and idiotic lies or actually engage me or visit lemmygrad for yourself?

            This accusation could’ve been “You’re literally from Poland.”, and it would’ve just as little ground to stand on.

        • PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lib.lgbtEnglish
          72·
          1 year ago

          Israel and Jews are not the same thing. Israel is a country for the Jews who happen to be racist colonisers. Every ethnic/religious group has racists in it, and the ones stealing homes in Palestine are the racist Jews. Most Jewish people don’t live in Israel, because most of them aren’t racist.

            • PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES@lib.lgbtEnglish
              71·
              1 year ago

              Jewish people are not flawless paragons. To portray them as such is to deify and other them, striping them off their humanity. They are human beings, flawed in all the same ways the rest of humanity is flawed. That includes, in many but not all, racism. It’s not antisemitic to say that some are racist. They’re human, and racism is a very human trait. You’re the antisemite. You deny them the flaws of being human, and other them as universally perfect.

  • krolden@lemmy.ml
    715·
    1 year ago

    The worst part about lemmy world is that all the tech discussions seemed to have moved there. Granted a lot of them are people who dont RTFM but still its not a good consolidation of discussion.

  • HardlightCereal@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
    2038·
    1 year ago

    The new rules also say you’re not allowed to report content for things that aren’t a violation of the terms of service. So if you report a content for being racist, that’s against the rules.

    • 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏@lemmy.one
      211·
      1 year ago

      Unless they changed it - the last time I checked there was an exception for posts violating community rules, so communities who want to exempt themselves can just add a rule IMO

      From my perspective, communities in general instantly remove racist content once reported, and most racial slurs in these contexts are used as a personal attack towards another individual.

      🔥HOT TAKE: There are contexts where racial slurs could be used without bad intentions, such as in a car visual customization community, or in a community with people of colour referencing each other. These slurs are especially used among younger age groups in a casual manner, who may not consider such terms offensive at their current point in life. Of course, such communities can just ban these terms outright with a new rule.

      Unless i’m missing something, I don’t see the problem with this