The place is filled with plenty of examples of US authoritarianism. Consider lurking before posting OP.
I didn’t make it in the screenshot 😔
I also got banned for that LMFAO
I didn’t even say anything about the ‘strawman’ I just said that “ban you for speaking too loudly” was bad
I find that that’s usually the case for most people. The part of the school system that was responsible for teaching them critical thinking skills really failed them. It’s also why people try to dumb down politics into one of two sides, it’s why our government will always inevitably fail. This guy is using the authoritarian label because that’s as far as his understanding of politics go. The US is an oligarchy, the US is imperialist, the US is nepotistic, but it is not authoritarian, yet.
Having said that, there are groups certainly interested in claiming that so that the authoritarian label means less for other nations, the sort of nations they want to defend. Given the submissions in that “community”, I would say this is the case here. People who really are against authoritarians and who might believe the US to be wouldn’t go and whitewash other authoritarian states. This community is a manifestation of whataboutism propaganda IMO.
The US deserves criticism, but if you really want to make it, I would encourage avoiding places with an underlying agenda like this one. In case you disagree with me, you can test it out easily for yourself, just post there and compare the US to other countries you would consider de facto authoritarian states, and see which countries they have a problem with you bringing up for comparison.
The US is authoritarian in the form of inverted totalitarianism.
We don’t live under the dictatorship of the US government as would be traditional authoritarianism, we live under the dictatorship of capital which effectively owns the US government and controls the population by force.
You shouldn’t of gotten banned for that but at the same time mods have the right to protect their communities from people who argue in bad faith and given this is the internet it’s safe to assume bad faith. (Even if you weren’t)
“We’re good and you’re bad”
Holy shit lmao you can’t write irony this good.
There’s a theory that the horrible grammar of the Nigerian email scams that gave them away helped them because it automatically helped filter out the people who could have given them the most trouble and would have been the easiest to scam. The same applies to here.
LOL I knew that and they still use similar techniques in the Calcutta Call Centers today, but I never thought about it applied to really anything else, you’re probably right.
Just for the lols, someone try asking them if they’re pro-Russian
They 100% are, and tell you that they don’t actually support Russia but have a “temporary ally” against the capitalist super power… Blablabla…
In the end they support the genocide in Ukraine, hate that genocide in Palestine and generally cherry pick what they seem fascist (the US and Europe) and what not (China, while Russia is temporarily fascist, but that’s okay because of reasons).
Those guys were never politically active in the real world. It’s super sad, because deep inside they are on the right track. They just would change one (capital fascist) system by stalinism (which they call communism).
Very beautifully written!
I’m having a very hard time believing this isn’t ironic.
I’ve always been weary of that community. It had some tankie mod vibes.
I get the ironic angle of the mod being “authoritarian” but that’s their space and if they decide they don’t want to deal with trolls arguing about they can ban people.
Just like trans communities can and should ban people who just want to argue about if trans people are real. If you try to argue against it you’re just being a dick and distracting from the point of the community.
How was OP trolling? They simply called out the strawman in the OOP
If the point of a community is spreading misinformation, you have a moral obligation to distract from the point of the community
And does that apply to when transphobes decide that trans people being real is “misinformation”?
No, because it’s not. Truth is not subjective.
Are you suggesting America isn’t authoritarian?
Are you suggesting term length has anything to do with authoritarianism?
I’ll bite, compared to Russia or China, the U.S. is not an authoritarian state.
Do you think it is?
why prison pop is so high then?
The gulag system is mostly for the blacks, we are not the same.JPEG.
Seems like all comments here are “whatabout communism”
US being an authoritarian shithole is pretty undisputable reality. It could be preferable to debate the point than outright banning the possibly misinformed, but the assumption of military bot troll propagandist is not unreasonable.
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You and I disagree, so it’s obvious you’re just a Kremlin bot account, here to sow discontent.
Not really sure how you came to that conclusion, we definitely have our problems, we aren’t perfect, but we definitely aren’t an authoritarian state either
The USA has the highest incarcerated population in the world. Per capita it’s about 2-4x the list of “authoritarian” states that usually get referenced.
Do you want to do a quick compare on the rates of extrajudicial killings as well?
I don’t know what better quantitative measurement for “authoritarian” are than life and liberty. Do you have better ones?
While this is true I’m not sure what that has to do with authoritarianism. I think the reasons for incarceration speak far more to what is authoritarian and what isn’t. A thousand people incarcerated for murder isn’t authoritarian, a single person jailed for speech is. The US doesn’t have a perfect track record there but it’s far better than most other countries.
An ethnic minority criminalised and prosecuted several times more than the ethnic majority of the country is authoritarian though.
While we aren’t as bad as some other countries we are still pretty authoritarian we have the largest prison population in the world and have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.
That doesn’t happen without being authoritarian.
Define authoritarian
Why? You won’t define communism.
ACAB really is universal.
We have an Israel first rulership. Every politician pledges allegiance to Israel. Tik Tok ban is because it is not zionist media, and the theory that young people are opposed to genocide is because they use tik tok, even through IDF gloating videos promoting their attrocities are on Twitter too, as are muslim disapprovals of genocide.
You have zero freedom/power to stop your theft of war support of Israel or against Russia, Canada, Greenland, Panama or Europe. Or stopping your nuclear incineration. Citizen’s united means only rich people speech counts. Congressional bills in congress will outlaw criticism of zionism/Israel. That you are currently permitted to have sex with people you choose is against the Christofascist agenda that will be pandered to in next 2-4 years. But it is the predetermination of democratic outcomes for the most favourable to Israel, war, oil, and the extreme corruption of by the oligarchy for the oligarchy rule, that makes the US more authoritarian than governments that simply contains divisive distractions, while defending and advancing the country’s needs. “Democracy and Freedom” is complete BS used to warmonger those accused of being less liberal than apartheid ethnostate Israel.
You+state approved media have the freedom to say US is not authoritarian, while I’m still allowed to explain reality. But neither of our opinions has any relevance whatsoever on our oppression.
So you’re anti-Semitic…got it, explains everything
I suppose you excuse whatever the Israeli state does in Palestine? What say you about the violation of geneva conventions?
Anti-zionism is not Antisemitism. Your conflation of the two is genuinely antisemitic.
Zionism is anti-Semitic at it’s core, it other-izes Jewish people, and justifies the violent settler colonialim of Israel as in the defense of all Jewish people, which only serves to further fuel genuine Antisemitism at the expense of Jewish people globally.
Zionism is also an inherently fascist ideology. The ethnic cleansing of the native people of Palestine has always been fundamental since it’s inception as a colonialist movement.
Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history.
Israel wouldn’t be attacking Palestine if Palestine hadn’t attacked first.
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe. Western Nations supported this instead of instituting legal protections and refuge for Jewish people fleeing persecution.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
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10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe, summerized and full book
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Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
Oslo was used as a land grab while continuing to deny Palestinians human rights
(Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ).
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Historian Works on the History
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Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
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The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
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A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
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The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
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The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
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10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
The existence of Hamas, and any armed resistance movement, is directly due to the decades of violence experienced daily under the permanent occupation, the Apartheid State, of Israel. It’s impossible to understand their existence if you don’t understand the lived experience and material conditions they are forced to live under. There is no such thing as a perfect victim when it comes to anti-Colonialist resistance, not for the Vietcong, the IRA, or the ANC either. Can you condemn the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the same way as the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto?
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
I love that you posted this, but you’re wasting your time feeding a known troll.
Why is it that Arabs live peacefully in Israel yet a Jew steps foot in Palestine and gets killed. Also…just throwing this out there but you should really listen to some of the talks given by Mosab Hassan Yousef, they are incredibly eye opening.
What was the capital of Israel in 1896?
2 can play that game, it really isn’t productive. Where was Israel located in 900BCE?
US of course should have its ruler determined by Netanyahu. It’s anti semitic to suggest otherwise. Congress will soon declare those who are anti-genocide to be deportable terrorist scum, and I will not burn anything down, because I am not a university student terrorist scum. But I will put a notch in the authoritarian shithole column.
The fuck are you actually on about???
Use some other words than “anti-semitism”. That card is too old and has dog ears
Project 2025 has joined the chat
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fascist attempts to spread liberal fascist US state dept propaganda that has been debunked thousands of times over
cries about muh freeze peach when told to stop spreading misinformation
Yeah go back to .world, bud
…this screenshot is from lemmy.world.
Go easy on them, ml users aren’t known for their observation skills.
To be fair, he didnt say he was against authoritariamism.
Is communism even possible without authoritarianism?
Edit: lol I pissed off the tankies
Not in the worlds current state. Communism is what comes after the worlds problems are already solved, regardless of what people on here think, its not happening any time soon.
More social policies are needed but these guys messaging is so bad and off it refuses to look introspectively they end up sounding like trumpers
If everything is shared under communism, that would include political power. thus (imo) communism is a direct democracy.
Edit: forgot what thread I was in. What the hell does communism have to do with US authoritarianism?
Ideal communism is what you described. Not communism in practice
Yeah, but humans are awful animals and true communism is a pipe dream.
The awful ones are awful. They’re allowed to take power in the current system. We have awful rulers and the awful people who support them. We need only be aware of this phenomenon to mitigate it. Your solution appears to be not accepting possible solutions, which is just inaction. How does inaction stop awful people from destroying the planet?
They’ve been allowed to take power in basically every system that has ever existed. The entirety of human history is a showcase of the fact.
Sure, we might be able to be better on small scales, but there’s a reason communism has never worked, and will never work on a large scale.
It looks great on paper, but not so much in practice. There’s always going to be evil people who are only interested in personal gain at the expense of others who are charismatic enough to dupe the population into letting them and participate in the committing of atrocities.
Humans are just too easy to corrupt. I think it’ll likely be our Great Filter.
commission*
Yes.
Yes. Communism was never meant to be authoritarian anyway, it’s a classless, moneyless, stateless society. Only some people don’t believe in the stateless part.
You’re not wrong though. While it might be possible to do in theory people are not that nice or kind, you’ll never get everyone to share what they have and not own or try to possess things without an authoritarian government forcing it. Maybe in a more ideal world you could achieve it but that’s not the world we live in.
“Gommunism is when everyone share everything”
Communism is an ideology that states that the means of production should belong to the working class, nowhere do the principles of communism deny the ownership of personal property. Look at home ownership rates and see which countries have the highest (China, post-soviet republics), and the lowest (Germany, US) rates
It’s not possible with authoritarianism either :)
Unless you count the version everybody insists on calling “social democracy” nowadays. That one can be done.
Traditional communism probably isn’t possible but it’s near guaranteed that no one in Lemmy wants communism like it’s traditionally taught
Edit: the fuck are you doing in a post about USA authorianism
Why are you booing me I’m right
Plot twist: The mod is from US and just proving their point.
PTB stinking hypocrisy from a distance.
Counterpoint. It’s not a strawman. The US is is an authoritarian state. If you disagree too loudly I will instaban you. also Why are you here?
Strawman wasn’t enough, was it? There’s an implicit false dichotomy here, between accepting the idiotic reasoning and the conclusion or rejecting both (thus the user not belonging to the sub).
EDIT: to be clear. I won’t talk if USA is/isn’t authoritarian, that is not my point. My point is that the mod in question is clearly being irrational, and hell breaks loose once you put irrational people on power. I also don’t think that he should be removing users for not agreeing with the premise of the sub.
Is it a mock-up of Trump being a general dipshit, getting things wrong, then aggressively doubling down on those things when people say anything.
They’re getting reamed out in the comments, which is great to see.
The US is an authoritarian state
Not yet.
Always has been.
Daddy uses lube tho
100% YDI, there’s no power tripping for moderator to kick someone out for useless flaming or trolling, it’s one of their duties.
Where is OP trolling?
Tolerant for the intolerant smth smth
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YDI BPR
Clearly it’s not a place to try and defend America. The mod is probably a tankie dick, but you’re the one who went into their space.
What does YDI BPR mean?
You Deserve It and Bait Provoked Reaction.
They are explained in the community sidebar:
Some acronyms you might see.
- PTB - Power-Tripping Bastard: The commenter agrees with you this was a PTB mod.
- YDI - You Deserved It: The commenter thinks you deserved that mod action.
- BPR - Bait-Provoked Reaction: That mod probably overreacted in charged situation, or due to being baited.
- CLM - Clueless mod: The mod probably just doesn’t understand how their software works.
They’re so groupthink in there they can’t even let Clueless Mod be a two letter acronym because that would be different from the other acronyms LMAO.
Clearly it’s not a place to try and defend America. The mod is probably a tankie dick, but you’re the one who went into their space.
OP is not even defending (or accusing) USA in that thread. Their only comment there is
> The US is is an authoritarian state.
> If you disagree too loudly I will instaban you.
lmaoThey’re only highlighting the mod’s hypocrisy. Everything else is assumption.
And the deal applies to the user that the mod is screeching at:
That couldn’t be more of a strawman even if he was with a lion, a Kansas girl and a tin man on a yellow brick road
Even if you agree that USA is authoritarian (IDK if the user in question does), the argument in the OOP is bloody idiotic, it’s on the same level as “2+2=7 lol thus whales don’t fly lmao”. And it is a strawman because it mischaracterises why people say that China is authoritarian.
What hypocrisy? It’s not called AntiAuthority.
It’s idiotic in that it ignores Xi’s 50 years of being involved in the party, and the power he’s head since before he was Gen sec. I wouldn’t call it a strawman, although it’s a pretty selective interpretation.
What hypocrisy? It’s not called AntiAuthority.
The mod is denouncing authoritarianism from a government, while being themself authoritarian. It is hypocrisy.
And, even if it wasn’t hypocrisy (it is), what random@blahaj said there would be simply a false accusation against the mod. It does not imply that they’re defending USA.
It’s idiotic in that it ignores Xi’s 50 years of being involved in the party, and the power he’s head since before he was Gen sec. I wouldn’t call it a strawman, although it’s a pretty selective interpretation.
It is a strawman because it mischaracterises why people claim that China is authoritarian. It has zero to do with Xi being head of state for eight years; it has to do with the one party system, plus censorship.
(OOP could have capitalised on that to claim that USA is authoritarian, without being a strawman. They didn’t.)
Mate, they’re not a bloody fucking government themselves are they? Talk about 2+2=7 alright…
And it’s not a strawman, it’s not in response to anyone. It’s at blurst whataboutism.
they’re not a bloody fucking government themselves are they?
The morality of authoritarianism does not “magically” change depending on who does it; it’s still the same outcome, only in a different scale. If one is bad, the other is also bad. And someone doing what they denounce as bad is hypocrisy.
And you could bring up a thousand more arbitrary restrictions like you already did twice, like, “it isn’t hypocrisy because today is Friday lol”. It still won’t change shite dammit.
And, as I already showed, even if your insane troll logic was valid (it is not), it doesn’t defend the bullshit/assumption/lie that OP was defending USA.
You’re being a bloody muppet and odds are that you know it.
Talk about 2+2=7 alright…
What I said is not false, let alone evidently false.
And it’s not a strawman, it’s not in response to anyone.
Yeah, because that community and the post totally exist in a vacuum. They are totally not addressing what people often say, that China is authoritarian. Right??? /s
It’s at blurst [worst?] whataboutism.
Nope.
Whataboutism is a diversion tactic. It would be whataboutism if OOP used that argument to divert attention from China into USA; they are not doing it, the central theme of the community is USA.
In case someone complains about the wall of text: Brandolini’s Law.
It does change when it comes to voluntary spaces. Their instance is like a club, it can impose its own rules on itself it’s not hurting anyone. A state imposing rules affects everyone and it’s damn hard to move.
You cannot begin to compare state oppression to Lemmy moderation.
It does change when it comes to voluntary spaces.
You: “ackshyually the comm isn’t AntiAuthority”
Me: [shows that it doesn’t matter]
You: “ackshyually they aren’t a government”
Me: [shows that it doesn’t matter]
You: “ackshyually it changes when it’s a voluntary space”You’re changing the goalposts again.
You cannot begin to compare state oppression to Lemmy moderation.
You: “elephant shit is not mouse shit. Thus mouse shit is not shit”.
To be blunt I’m not wasting my time further with you.
Listen, you and I know you’re not that stupid, so stop pretending to be.
Apparently you are.
You think it’s fine to go into a community to harass it, yet complain when you get banned.
You act like it’s totally fine to go into these spaces and be a dick, because you believe its hypocritical that they treated an online community differently to a fucking nation state?
Stop pretending to be a fucking dickhead, you can clearly see what Op did was wrong but because you don’t like the community you think it was okay to be done.
How did they “harass it”. You still haven’t managed to explain that. The person the mod replied to never said the US is not authoritarian. They can disagree with the mod and still think the US is authoritarian. Stop being a dumbass and defending another dumbass.
