Summary
Key leaders of the “Abandon Harris” movement, which encouraged voters to oppose Kamala Harris due to U.S. support for Israel during the Gaza war, are now expressing unease about Trump’s incoming administration.
Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.
However, concerns are growing over his Cabinet picks, such as Mike Huckabee and Tulsi Gabbard, which some see as troubling for Muslim communities.
hypocrites, these people are two faced hypocrites. they get what they wanted with the election and now their all upset? if these people are not the definition of a hypocrite idk what is.
Well, they voted for the leopards eating faces party and now their faces are being eaten by leopards. Huh.
Funny how that works.
They voted for the democrats?
I get the joke and at this point I’m disillusioned enough to laugh at it. The Democratic party is so disconnected from the working class that, assuming there is another election, I don’t know what’s next.
America was built on this stuff. Go ask a native american. Theres always been a group that is systematically abused and murdered for profit. As long as americans value money over morals this will keep going.
You’re not wrong, but there was a time when the regulatory capture was not so complete, when politicians were not openly bought and sold… Am I just having nostalgia for a time that never was? Maybe… I still have hope though.
I think you are right about regulatory capture, just I think it was always technical limitations rather than people making better decisions.
Yeah, that makes sense too. I think there are definitely some technical limitations, design flaws, perverse incentives, etc. baked into the political system that have led us where we are today. It’s a bit too resistant to change.
anti genocide voters are not hypocrites.
People who ignore the realities of strategic voting in a FPTP system, then pat themselves on the back for their moral superiority are hypocrites. Anti-Genocide wasn’t even on the table. Ignoring literally every other issue that was on the table just so they can feel good about throwing away their vote makes them hypocrites.
The Palestinian people have gained absolutely nothing from those anti-genocide votes. They’re virtue-signalling at best, intentional spoiler votes at worst.
Meanwhile, there are labour protections, checks on corporate enshittification, mechanisms to slow down the accumulation of wealth and institutions of democracy that the incoming administration will tear down (or at least try to) that the alternative wouldn’t. All of these are victims of that arrogance, to think that an anti-genocide vote is worth more than an anti-christofascism(+genocide) vote.
Harris lost across nearly every single demographic. Thats disengagement, not virtue signallers. You wish it was virtue signallers so you would have someone to be mad at besides Harris.
Oh I have plenty of people to be mad at - Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, Harris, Biden, the DNC, the conservative wing of the Democratic Party, authoritarian bootlickers masquerading as leftists…
Voter disengagement is an issue, yes, but people advocating for voting against Harris on grounds of voting against Genocide (which, you know, is the whole topic here) fail doubly: First, they pretend it’s the core issue of the election and their vote puts them on the anti-genocide side, and second, they pretend it was a topic of the election at all, such that there would even be an anti-genocide side to put them on.
So yes, I am mad at people pretending that voting against Harris somehow makes them more virtuous. I’m even more mad at the people voting against her for actually relevant reason, but that’s not the topic here.
Sometimes when given an impossible choice the only possible choice is not to act, or to choose something thats not on offer. Some people felt they had to make that choice in the last election, and I dont see how you cant empathize with that. Some of them werent voting for trumps policies as much as they were voting for trump to come in and do what he said he’d do-- burn this system to the ground with a flamethrower. If your family were getting genocided and you existed in a voting system which gave no choice on the ballot but to continue it, wouldnt you be brave enough make that third choice, or would you simply vote to kill your own?
I’m mad just like you– I’m mad at the DNC, the centrists, and Biden/Harris for creating that situation and not forcing some other outcome. Sometimes these bad things happen because we allow for them to and make space for them to exist. You and me.
Why didnt MANY more Dems register their dissatisfaction with genocide in the “uncommitted” vote? Are we so indifferent to what bad policies Biden/Harris was proposing? It would have cost Dems nothing, Biden was going to win over Williamson in that half arsed primary anyway. But the dem voters by and large couldnt even be bothered to lift a finger to signal disapproval with our government sponsoring a far right wing genocide of some “browns” (and some reporters, doctors, aid workers, american citizens etc) in some far away country. By and large, only the youth, progressives, and muslims were willing to even do this symbolic vote to message our leadership that this stuff mattered a lot.
So you’re angry at the victims now huh. I’m struggling to be concerned about centrist anger. We’re all going down civlization’s toilet together now, on the centrists watch. Maybe the centrist dem voters will finally feel that they have something in common with anyone but their own immediate family and their bank accounts. But frankly I’m not holding my breath, and I dont care much about centrist anger myself. Why take advice or criticism from those you dont respect?
An impossible choice between…?
The persistent myth that both parties are equally bad is patently bullshit propaganda by those fostering that disengagement. Pretending that all the other issues don’t matter in the face of the decision between “not going to stop genocide” and “going to make it worse” is narrow-minded. Again, if someone thinks “I’m not going to vote for genocide” is a justification for “I’m not going to vote against the fascists”, they’re trying to show their virtue with respect to genocide, while not actually caring about anything else except that signalling of virtue. That’s the hypocrisy.
I cant agree. The utter lack of pressure on dem leadership to counterbalance AIPAC money is not how “democracy” is supposed to work, and by acting like we have no choice in these things we guarantee a continuance of that lack of choice forever. I’m not up for that.
Good chat, I dont think we are going to come together on this point, but I thank you for the civility and I hope we all come out of this somehow.
With respect to Israel? Sure.
With respect to international policy otherwise? No.
With respect to domestic policy? Hell no.
By focusing on one issue - a horrible issue, don’t get me wrong, but one this election wouldn’t influence - to the detriment of all others, you pretend that everything else doesn’t matter. Fuck transgender kids, fuck immigrants, fuck labor laws, fuck economic exploitation, fuck the Ukraine too while we’re at it, fuck everyone and everything, but at least you didn’t vote for one genocide supporter (but got the other, so you achieved nothing anyway and never were going to).
Instead of directing that frustration at a more precise channel like protests, pestering your representatives, more severe forms of activism specifically messaging your discontent about that one issue, you used the vaguest possible opportunity with the most side effects. The US democracy may be broken, mutilated and in dire need of a fundamental overhaul, but it still has some democratic elements. Pretending it doesn’t is disingenuous.
If that changed your view after all, then I’ll take back everything else I’m about to say, but if you genuinely think nothing but making a show of caring about Palestine matters, this is where my charity and civility ends.
You’re a transphobia, racism and christofascism enabler, and a hollow gesture of caring about Palestinian lives that was never going to do anything for those lives except put a bunch of other lives in jeopardy doesn’t weigh that up. In a word:
You’re a hypocrite.
Lol