L’année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l’idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.
Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l’expérience de quelqu’un qui rejoint le fediverse via l’instance jlai.lu.
Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l’expérience Lemmy.
Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc… je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d’à peine d’un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l’encontre de l’état d’esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.
Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l’année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu’ils ne sont pas francophone et que j’aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d’une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c’est trop.
Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l’idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu’il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.
We have no post supporting capitalism. The whole server is critizing capitalism and supporting social and environnemental project.
That is terrific, I’m glad that you are yourself anti-capitalist. I don’t think the whole jlai.lu instance is, though, and at least one mod is apparently quite conservative.
The whole instance is not anti capitalistic but many of the most active users are and we have dedicated leftist and pro-tolerance communities. The instance is overtly antifascist, the few doubtful users that posted were kicked out promptly.
The feeling is also anti-authoritarian so tankies wouldn’t feel at ease, but I dont think they’d be kicked out unless blatantly promoting imperialist / authoritarian agendas.
If you’re talking about me, that’s kind of a funny way to see it I guess, albeit pretty dumb and most likely lacking in political history for it to be your guess.
Well, i’m affraid language barriere doesn’t help…and there is some part of misunderstanding and french’s culture is different 😟
When we talk about PCC or the Kremlin, we are mainly critizing imperialism. We do make a clear line between communism and imperialism.
We also critize France, and our actions to change it is currently repressed by the police. We document it there. I don’t read it, it depress me a lot and i have to care about myself.
https://jlai.lu/c/quefaitlapolice?
You can also check those communities :
You can also check @Frirish@jlai.lu posts.
He has expressed his point of view about hexbear but that doesn’t represent our opinion until proven otherwise.
The first thing we (anyone, everyone not necessary the mod/admin team) do is talking to people (even modo, admin are included and can be demoted anytime) and pointing out what’s wrong.
That’s the first thing we did. We asked for source and pointed out it’s normal that you would react here.
Then, we ask them to edit their post as a way to apologize.
J’ai mal lu, ou bien le seul argument pour dire qu’OP est un nazi c’est qu’il a utilisé le mot tankie?
Non, ils mentionnent aussi un commentaire qu’OP a eu sur le conflit en Ukraine
Oui, plus ou moins. Si on lit la définition de wikipédia : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
On peut faire le parralèles avec les l’islamogauchisme utilisé par la droite contre la FI pour la qualifier d’extreme.
Après, OP a apporté des précisions avec des liens.
On peut faire un parallèle. Mais à la différence de l’islamogauchimse, le mot décrit à la base quelque chose de réel.
Et son agitation, fût-elle fantasmatique, ne fait pas de son utilisateur un facho, pas plus que JM Blanquette est un facho pour avoir utilisé le facheux vocable “islamogauchimse”.
On va pas refaire le débat de comment les libéraux préparent le terrain pour les fachos, puisqu’on va vite tomber d’accord. Mais, de l’aveu même de Cowbee, ces deux positions politiques sont distinctes. Et balancer des étiquettes sur cette base là est caduc.
Hexagonours, dans le discours, c’est sauter de branche en branche argumentative pour au final dire que t’es un nazi. Exemple dans ce thread:
1 - un gars associe, indûment ou non, Hexbear à Trump avec un mot prétendument capacitiste.
2 - critiquer le PCC c’est habituellement fait par des droitards facho sur les Internet.
3 - donc AlexisFR est un facho.
4 - ce gusse est toléré. Discutable, perso jlaipalu, puis je suis sûr que meme si tu l’as lu, pas certain qu’il soit facho h24, surtout si les accusations sont aussi légèrement circonstanciées.
5 - Donc tout le monde ici est un facho par association (la fameuse loi du, si t’as un facho à table, toute la table est facho), peu importe les positions sur le climat, le capitalisme, la moralité des rentes terriennes.
Le raisonnement est scabreux, et certains n’auraient peut-être pas du tant sécher la philo.
Mais ils ne vont pas laisser la réalité leur barrer la route 🤭
C’est un très bon résumé, leur raisonnement est logique comme tu l’as dit.
Pour islamogauchisme je veux bien des sources puisque pour le moment j’ai pas d’exemples qui me vient en tete. l’usage d’islamogauchisme remonte bien avant que ce soit popularisé par la droite. Des chercheurs et chercheuses du CNRS sont remonté à la source de ce terme et l’ont retrouvé dans un post sur X qui appartenait à un russe. De là, iels en ont déduit que c’était une ferme à troll :
Des sources à propos de? Je suis pas un défenseur de ce terme dégueulasse. Le terme qui a un sens initial qui décrit quelque chose de réel, c’est tankie, pas
judéobolchéviqueislamogôchimste.Les tankies à la base sont les défenseurs de l’invasion de la Hongrie avec des chars soviétiques, d’où le mot " tank ie "
It’s great you have that perspective on it individually. You individually might be totally fine. I ask you the same question though: look at the company you keep. One of your mods, a full 1/8th of your monthly userbase, just used tankie as a slur. Against a forum that’s… what? Too antizionist? Too antiracist? Too anti-imperialist? Too pro-LGBT? I still don’t know either of their specific ideological disagreements with Hexbear and don’t care. If I were you I’d be sceptical of people who use words the right-wing uses to describe the same enemies the right-wing has. A nebulous term like tankie can be used to condemn anyone. An out-group enemy that only exists through conspiracy theories can be used to condemn anyone. Neither can be specifically defined in the same way me using “liberal” or “fascist” as an in-group enemy can be. If you feel genuinely committed to something as radical as environmentalism, you’re too radical for that forum and you’ll be the tankie or the sneaky Asian spy when they run out of more radical candidates. I wouldn’t want to be on Hexbear if people used language like that unironically.
How did you come to that number? Our total monthly userbase is 220 users per month for the instance.
I’m just going off the number on the sidebar when I’m viewing your instance through this one. Now it’s diluted by this thread and it says 55 users/month, but when I first saw the thread it was at 8/month. Lemmy can be weird about syncing with other things so it might be that: https://i.imgur.com/ODSkS0n.png .
Yeah those counters are usually quite inaccurate, you always have to check on the source instance to be sure.
It’s the common perspective. You’d know if you knew what you’re talking about, but I guess you can’t help the constant shitposting without doing a modicum of research.
This instance is eminently left-wing (just not the way you redfash supporting genocides that aren’t the genocide of the Palestinians are).
And no, calling someone a tankie does not make anyone a fascist, no matter how many times you’ll repeat it. You’re getting high on your own farts, but nobody outside of your bubble believes that ridiculous shit.
Read the room.
May i convaince you otherwise about this mod ? Here is Anansi (sysop) answer to TheFirish :
We had another post about defederating Hexbear long before, almost one year ago where TGhost, thank to her, talked to anansi and convainced him to keep the federation with hexbear.
If you can comment here, and see our posts that’s due to @anansi’s decision and @TGhost’s argument.
Currently, in this thread, heated arguments, meme, trolling, wich are spreading to the whole lemmyverse aren’t helping us. They are a fun thing to do but it often end up badly.
Anyway, i hope that translation and this historical decisions/fact from jlai.lu, can give you a new perspective on jlai.lu and anansi.
You can trust us and let us handle the situation.
Attention Snoopy, méfie-toi de nous, on est anti activisme environnemental 😆
I’m not saying you’re anti-environmentalists. Plenty of liberals are environmentalists. I’m saying that I’ve seen two users, including a mod, use undefinable words that have one rhetorical purpose. You use a word like “tankie” or an idea like “all my enemies are foreign spies” to set a limit on dissent. I could ask that user what the specific line between a tankie and non-tankie is, but if that answer even makes sense then it sets a firm limit on how radical someone can be. I’m an eco-Marxist, I study it as closely as I can and work practically as one, the books on my shelf are mostly about what I’d consider part of an eco-Marxist critique. I understand environmentalism as a complex intersectional war of liberation. What part of that makes me a tankie versus the acceptable position? If there’s preemptive surrender to power, if some part of that intersectional struggle is unacceptable or some act or idea or theorist is too far, I don’t care how many paintings you’ve splashed with soup today.
Meh, I use tanky to differentiate between leftists and people that cosplay as leftist while excusing genocide and human rights violation whenever it’s their flavor of autocrat doing it, not really as an anti-communist word since nobody uses it like that in the first place.
No, it sets a limit on how much you accept your fellow comrades from being used as a stepping tool by an authoritarian regime/dictator to be able to call yourself “communist”, while ending up in state capitalism anyway.
I may concede that from my years on hexbear, I associate most participants to this kind of communism flavor by default, which may not be your case, but this thread did not really start in good faith, so why would I.
Democrats?
Yes, but not only.
So close to understand my obvious point, you can do it!
Honest question: what do you think of the concept of atrocity propaganda?
When I see the U.S. making claims about one of its enemies doing atrocities, I’m going to be skeptical, because they’ve told that exact sort of lie for the exact same reason plenty of times before.
I know it exists and is pretty common in disinformation and propaganda, which is why I wait for international organizations, independent reporters and numerous testimonies before reaching for conclusions.
I also like to consider that when these are the same people and organizations that are making Israel actions public and asking for genocide recognition, than the ones that are doing the same with the Uyghurs genocide for like a decade or two now, they are not Schrodinger propagandists that act at the same time against and for the interests of the US and its imperialists friends (France included).
When I see people making claims that a genocide is not happening when there is an egregious amount of evidences already, using the shittiest wiki entry I’ve ever seen somewhere in this thread, written by a chinese national from a chinese IP (the edit log is public), with half of the entry having no reference, the other one having chinese state media and youtube videos as source, I’m not only going to be skeptical, but I’ll also consider that you’ll end up with all the other genocide deniers in history. One of your mate cited Zenz as a gotcha when this shit is known since the 50’s and was even a point of contention between the PRC and the Soviets.
Also, as a last note, it doesn’t even make sense that the Uyghur genocide would be used as atrocity propaganda simply because of the fact that nobody in the West cares about chineses, muslims and even less about chinese muslims. What would be the point?
In Kuweit and Iraq, it was used to make direct intervention in the country “acceptable” or even positively viewed by the mass. Here, the goal is what? To have sanctions upon China that would cripple only the western economy?
I’ll end on a personal note tangentially related that is kind of my conclusion for this whole thread:
Seing all of you parading as “true” leftists while spouting the chinese equivalent of hasbara and not even seing the irony in this makes me hate you even more that shitlibs, and that’s even before even considering the history and damage that tankies have done to the worldwide leftist and especially revolutionary movement for the last century.
You’ll take whatever is thrown in front of you that agrees with you as proof that you’re right rather that actually challenging your views, and for what? Licking the boots of yet another authoritarian regime with state capitalism and a history of purging minorities and commonly violating human rights?
Nobody believes “tankie” is a slur, except the tankies that feel insulted. Sorry for calling a cat a cat! Maybe you’ll realize after you’re done licking Putin’s boots.