• misk@sopuli.xyzOP
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    4 days ago

    „Sorry guys, we need to temporarily suspend Geneva convention and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union”.

    Those guys were hailed as ones to bring democracy and rule of law after PiS ran it into the ground. They were called „centre-left” by almost all western media. Ahahahaha.

    • tal
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      4 days ago

      It’s not a Geneva Convention. Separate treaty.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

      I think that there’s some clause that permits non-use of the treaty. I was reading that treaty text back during the European migrant crisis a bunch.

      kagis

      https://www.unhcr.org/sites/default/files/legacy-pdf/3b66c2aa10.pdf

      Yeah, Article 9:

      Article 9

      PROVISIONAL MEASURES

      Nothing in this Convention shall prevent a Contracting State, in time of war or other grave and exceptional circumstances, from taking provisionally measures which it considers to be essential to the national security in the case of a particular person, pending a determination by the Contracting State that that person is in fact a refugee and that the continuance of such measures is necessary in his case in the interests of national security

      But that’s supposed to be specific to people on a case-bye-case basis person, not a general suspension. Hmm.

      The EU’s Schengen Treaty has a clause that permits temporary general suspension of the Schengen Area freedom of movement, and a bunch of EU members used that, but I don’t think that there is an analog to that in the Refugee Convention.

      looks further

      WP does say that there aren’t really any consequences to violating the treaty, and that countries have done so in the past.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

      There is no body that monitors compliance. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) has supervisory responsibilities but cannot enforce the convention, and there is no formal mechanism for individuals to file complaints. The Convention specifies that complaints should be referred to the International Court of Justice.[19] It appears that no nation has ever done this.

      An individual may lodge a complaint with the UN Human Rights Committee under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights or with the UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights under the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, but no one has ever done so in regard to violations of the convention. Nations may levy international sanctions against violators, but no nation has ever done so.

      At present, the only real consequences of violation are 1) public shaming in the press, and 2) verbal condemnation of the violator by the UN and by other nations. To date, those have not proven to be significant deterrents.[20]

      The EU apparently mandates member state conformance in this treaty. However, given the unpopularity of refugee immigration and the negative political consequences for political parties, I’m not sure how much practical ability Brussels has to impose penalties on member states. Like, we already had the attempt to invoke Article 9 (different article 9 from the one above, the one to strip European Union members of their political powers) during the European migrant crisis.

      EDIT: Oh, I bet I know what Poland is gonna do. They’re not gonna actually suspend the treaty, whatever they’re calling it. They aren’t gonna use Article 9 (of the Refugee Treaty). They’re gonna use Article 31.

      Article 31

      REFUGEES UNLAWFULLY IN THE COUNTRY OF REFUGE

      The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

      This already came up before during the European migrant crisis. If someone comes to your country but not directly, then you’re free to penalize them for illegal entry. Basically, no refugees are coming directly to Poland. The EU tried plugging this hole with the Dublin Regulation. It didn’t work all that well.

      EDIT2: Apparently in 2026, the Dublin Regulation is supposed to be replaced with this. Could alter the picture legally. Dunno if it has any mechanism for suspension, as the Schengen Treaty did, or not.

      EDIT3: Ah. You can buy your way out of conformance, for one, under the 2026 replacement:

      The Dublin III Regulation, which determines which member state is responsible for processing any individual asylum application, will be reformed. Countries where migrants first arrive will newly be able to relocate a total of up to 30,000 migrants per year to other EU member states. The Pact will institute a “mandatory solidarity mechanism” where all EU countries must either physically host asylum seekers, or assist in other ways such as financially or by providing extra personnel. A country can pay 20,000 Euros for every migrant it does not accept under the mechanism.

      • misk@sopuli.xyzOP
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        4 days ago

        Yeah, most international treaties on human rights are toothless because there is no mechanism for enforcing them. There will be no penalties from Brussels because EPP rules EU and KO (main ruling coalition party) is part of EPP, simple as that.

        • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          because EPP rules EU and KO is part of EPP

          Wait, isn’t that exactly why laws are enforced by courts and not parliaments?

          • misk@sopuli.xyzOP
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            3 days ago

            Yes and no. As an example, there’s an EU court ordering Poland to legalise same-sex marriage yet the centre-left government can’t even get it through the lower house of the parliament. Court can’t do much other than set some administrative fees that are so low you can ignore them. There could be some pressure applied by cutting EU funds etc but somehow it doesn’t happen to Poland. Curious, no?

      • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml
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        3 days ago

        Yeah, my country (czechia) is buying its way out and i think quite a few other CEE countries are as well.