You invented the “trained” qualification. Pulled it straight out of thin air
I pulled it straight out of the dictionary, where the word “Militia” is defined.
Now, if you will accept a minor change from “trained” to “trainable”, your definition expands to include both classes of the militia as defined in 10USC246, and becomes reasonably close to the constitutional meanings of both “militia” and “the people”.
You’re pulling this straight out of thin air, so I flat out reject it.
This is going nowhere. If the words were synonymous, they wouldn’t have bothered to use the word Militia. Full stop. I’m not going to continue to entertain your fantasies of what the drafters really meant, inventing your own definitions of words that have literal written definitions.
I pulled it straight out of the dictionary, where the word “Militia” is defined.
And I demonstrated, repeatedly, how that definition is flawed, and does not reflect how the word is used in either the constitution or legislation. Your definition specifically excludes certain individuals that the law (10 USC 246) specifically includes. You have provided no argument as to why 10 USC 246 - an act of Congress - should be rejected, and replaced by the opinion of Mr. Johnson, a private individual.
While you may have other routes forward, the only options I can see to further your argument are to adopt a definition that is not fundamentally incompatible with 10 USC 246, or you can demonstrate that this part of 10 USC is unconstitutional, and incompatible with the constitutional meaning.
Frankly, your best option here is to concede the point.
And your interpretation continues to imply that everyone who isn’t a male between 17 and 45, or a female in the National Guard, is not People. You keep dancing around with your definition of Militia while conveniently ignoring that your claim was that Militia = People and the words are interchangeable. That is my sole contention.
You can either concede that your claim was wrong, or you can affirm that you believe that men 17-45 and women in the National Guard are the only citizens who count as People. There is no alternative.
And your interpretation continues to imply that everyone who isn’t a male between 17 and 45, or a female in the National Guard, is not People.
I have addressed this many, many times.
The constitutional meaning of “militia” is very, very broad. The constitutional meaning of “militia” is so broad that it is effectively synonymous with “the people”. This meaning cannot be changed except through the amendment process.
The legislative meaning of militia is much broader than most people realize, but much narrower than the constitutional meaning. The legislative meaning is codified as 10 USC 246. This meaning can be expanded or shrunk at the will of Congress. It cannot be expanded beyond the Constitutional meaning. Whoever Congress wants to add to the legislative meaning tomorrow was already within the constitutional meaning yesterday.
And just for shits and giggles, there is also Mr. Johnson’s meaning of “militia”, which is narrower than either the Constitutional meaning or the Legislative meaning. It is so narrow that I don’t need to demonstrate the broad constitutional meaning to defeat that claim; I can defeat it even with the narrower (but simpler) legislative meaning.
And just for the sake of completeness, there is also the term “adults” as you have used it above, which is clearly broader than the legislative definition, and seems reasonablyncomparable to both the Constitutional meaning of “militia” and “the people”.
You can either concede that your claim was wrong, or you can affirm that you believe that men 17-45 and women in the National Guard are the only citizens who count as People. There is no alternative.
False dichotomy. An alternative is to demonstrate that your understanding of my claim is faulty. Which it is. You are raising a strawman interpretation of my claim.
My claim is that the constitutional meaning of “militia” is synonymous with “the people”, which is true.
Your strawman interpretation is that the legislative meaning of “militia” is synonymous with “the people”, which is, of course false.
I readily concede that your strawman interpretation is false. Fortunately, the validity of my actual claim is not at all affected by your strawman.
The constitutional meaning of “militia” is very, very broad. The constitutional meaning of “militia” is so broad that it is effectively synonymous with “the people”.
A totally unsubstantiated claim which you have made multiple times with zero evidence.
Dance for someone else, it’s not even entertaining anymore.
Dance dance dance. This was no debate, this was a rich demonstration of your ability to deviate, distract, and entirely miss the point. And you still can’t present a shred of evidence. Clownshow.
The current legislative definition, and the fact that Congress is free to expand it, gives me everything I need. I don’t even need to resort to the myriad contemporaneous statements by the founding fathers describing the militia as the “yeomanry” or the "whole body of the people.
Your acceptance of a training program that would apply to everyone upon reaching adulthood was an unexpected piece of evidence, but a welcome one.
And, lest we forget, this whole argument rests on the complete lie that the right to keep and bear arms is contingent on militia “service”. It is clearly guaranteed to “the people.”
No, this entire argument is based upon the fact that you claimed, and continued to claim, without evidence that Militia and People are constitutionally synonyms. And here again you dance around that nonsense claim, trying to refocus on anything else because, I’ve again, you have absolutely no evidence to support this.
You convincing yourself of this nonsense is not evidence. Your personal interpretations mean exactly nothing to me.
I pulled it straight out of the dictionary, where the word “Militia” is defined.
You’re pulling this straight out of thin air, so I flat out reject it.
This is going nowhere. If the words were synonymous, they wouldn’t have bothered to use the word Militia. Full stop. I’m not going to continue to entertain your fantasies of what the drafters really meant, inventing your own definitions of words that have literal written definitions.
And I demonstrated, repeatedly, how that definition is flawed, and does not reflect how the word is used in either the constitution or legislation. Your definition specifically excludes certain individuals that the law (10 USC 246) specifically includes. You have provided no argument as to why 10 USC 246 - an act of Congress - should be rejected, and replaced by the opinion of Mr. Johnson, a private individual.
While you may have other routes forward, the only options I can see to further your argument are to adopt a definition that is not fundamentally incompatible with 10 USC 246, or you can demonstrate that this part of 10 USC is unconstitutional, and incompatible with the constitutional meaning.
Frankly, your best option here is to concede the point.
And your interpretation continues to imply that everyone who isn’t a male between 17 and 45, or a female in the National Guard, is not People. You keep dancing around with your definition of Militia while conveniently ignoring that your claim was that Militia = People and the words are interchangeable. That is my sole contention.
You can either concede that your claim was wrong, or you can affirm that you believe that men 17-45 and women in the National Guard are the only citizens who count as People. There is no alternative.
I have addressed this many, many times.
The constitutional meaning of “militia” is very, very broad. The constitutional meaning of “militia” is so broad that it is effectively synonymous with “the people”. This meaning cannot be changed except through the amendment process.
The legislative meaning of militia is much broader than most people realize, but much narrower than the constitutional meaning. The legislative meaning is codified as 10 USC 246. This meaning can be expanded or shrunk at the will of Congress. It cannot be expanded beyond the Constitutional meaning. Whoever Congress wants to add to the legislative meaning tomorrow was already within the constitutional meaning yesterday.
And just for shits and giggles, there is also Mr. Johnson’s meaning of “militia”, which is narrower than either the Constitutional meaning or the Legislative meaning. It is so narrow that I don’t need to demonstrate the broad constitutional meaning to defeat that claim; I can defeat it even with the narrower (but simpler) legislative meaning.
And just for the sake of completeness, there is also the term “adults” as you have used it above, which is clearly broader than the legislative definition, and seems reasonablyncomparable to both the Constitutional meaning of “militia” and “the people”.
False dichotomy. An alternative is to demonstrate that your understanding of my claim is faulty. Which it is. You are raising a strawman interpretation of my claim.
My claim is that the constitutional meaning of “militia” is synonymous with “the people”, which is true.
Your strawman interpretation is that the legislative meaning of “militia” is synonymous with “the people”, which is, of course false.
I readily concede that your strawman interpretation is false. Fortunately, the validity of my actual claim is not at all affected by your strawman.
A totally unsubstantiated claim which you have made multiple times with zero evidence.
Dance for someone else, it’s not even entertaining anymore.
Your own position on training “adults” is all the evidence I need in this debate. I accepted your concession.
Dance dance dance. This was no debate, this was a rich demonstration of your ability to deviate, distract, and entirely miss the point. And you still can’t present a shred of evidence. Clownshow.
The current legislative definition, and the fact that Congress is free to expand it, gives me everything I need. I don’t even need to resort to the myriad contemporaneous statements by the founding fathers describing the militia as the “yeomanry” or the "whole body of the people.
Your acceptance of a training program that would apply to everyone upon reaching adulthood was an unexpected piece of evidence, but a welcome one.
And, lest we forget, this whole argument rests on the complete lie that the right to keep and bear arms is contingent on militia “service”. It is clearly guaranteed to “the people.”
No, this entire argument is based upon the fact that you claimed, and continued to claim, without evidence that Militia and People are constitutionally synonyms. And here again you dance around that nonsense claim, trying to refocus on anything else because, I’ve again, you have absolutely no evidence to support this.
You convincing yourself of this nonsense is not evidence. Your personal interpretations mean exactly nothing to me.