How is it that the general response to this debate is “Trump rambled nonsensically and told conflicting lies and wants to undermine democracy, but Biden was recovering from a cold, so he’s unfit.”
Like in what world are these issues comparable?
Like in what world are these issues comparable?
Everyone who already knows that Trump is a moron can’t actually develop a lower opinion of him.
Anyone who doesn’t know that Trump is a moron is too dense to parse anything more complex than a ten-second Fox News soundbite.
Thus, Biden giving a mediocre performance hurts Biden much more than Trump doing his normal word-salad oral diarrhea hurts Trump.
It’s not fair or logical, but it’s the way things work at the moment.
Very generous of you to call it a “mediocre performance”.
He was recovering from a cold? Is this really the excuse Democrats are gonna go with?
The point isn’t the “excuse”, it’s the criticism over him not having full power behind his voice during the debate being irrelevant.
Which is incidentally the only real criticism I could see this morning, beyond people falsely claiming he was incoherent. Which he absolutely was not.
Oh right, his just going mid-sentence from abortion to illegal immigration is textbook coherency, amirite?
Like PSA said, “new strategy to pivot from your strongest to your weakest issue!”
Tell me you didn’t watch the debate without telling me.
The new pro-Biden platform is that it was all about a cold making his voice soft. Of course they are going to ignore the actual issues. A real primary would have made things much more obvious, when you had him on stage with some 40 and 50 year old folks.
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We finally beat medicare!
but Biden was recovering from a cold, so he’s unfit.”
Literally haven’t seen that excuse yet…
Has he been recovering from a cold the last decade?
The biggest thing people are complaining about was Biden was a little hoarse against Trump’s booming nonsensical rambling.
I don’t care if Biden was hoarse. At Trump’s best, he made no sense, and at his worst, he was pushing terrible ideologies
It seemed a lot worse than being a little hoarse. He was conflating issues, mid sentence. And getting confused regularly in addition to seeming really feeble and not being able to answer what is asked of him. Listen if this was the first i was seeing this from the president, then i might buy this is just him mid fever. But it’s not and is expected from a man at his age. Still voting for him, but i am thinking Kamala Harris is going to have to take over the presidency before long.
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I don’t see our current trajectory as being successful, so this seems the only winning play. Not changing things risks everything for no good reason
I hardly saw any mentions of him being hoarse reading through the megathread comments last night.
Stuff like, winning the war against Medicaid, on the other hand, as well as his general just got out of bed demeanor, is absolutely going to erode confidence in him and quite potentially cost progressives the election if they don’t pick a different horse.
The biggest thing people are complaining about was Biden was a little hoarse
Who is saying that?
It’s not in the article you’re commenting on, and I haven’t seen a single complaint about his voice being “hoarse”.
Can you link what you’re talking about where the main complaint about Biden was he seemed hoarse?
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both candidates are the age of my grandfather who lives with me because he needs care
no way either candidate has escaped the ravages of time
Biden and Trump both are selfishly keeping a younger generation from stepping in
Yup. Fuck them.
I’m voting for Biden, but fuck them both all the same.
I hate this timeline.
These debates are only there for Biden to lose 🤷
And he certainly rose to the occasion last night.
I don’t understand why any one Biden’s side thought this was a good idea. Biden has never been a good speaker I believe mostly due to his stutter. The only thing Trump knows how to do is talk he’s a damn salesman. I guess the hope was that Biden could string together some coherent sentences in order to hit back at Trump’s lies and tout his achievements. I just think putting your candidates weakest trait against the other candidates strongest trait was a stupid risky thing to do from the outset with limited positive potential.
So we should just do away with debates?
I think debates and townhalls are Biden’s best bet right now. He needs to show that it was just a bad night for him.
And if it wasn’t just a bad night, it’ll spur action to find a viable replacement.
Such obvious bullshit.
He’s leading the party just fine against Trump right now.
I’m saying this as someone that donated ~$1000 to Bernie.
I’m personally glad Biden is handling Ukraine & not Sanders.
You’d have to be astoundingly stupid to think that the DNC is going to change tack 5 months prior to the election.
EDIT: Oh look, there are 12 of them now.
Starting with a declaimer of being fairly far left…
Biden is not looking like he has a winning chance. He’s barely leading in national polls, but those polls are misleading, as, because of the senate, democrats typically need to win by 2.5-3 points in order to have a shot at the electoral college. So he’s behind there.
He’s behind in several key states where he needs to win. If you count states where he’s down 2 points or less, he BARELY has enough to win. Can’t miss a single state.
The debate hurt Biden. This is not a logical contest, it’s a popularity one, and Biden is not doing well. I think he’s done some great policy things, but that’s not how people vote. Democrats have to learn that it’s not enough to be “right” if you’re going to lose elections.
Polls are garbage.
Democrats have been beating the polls at the ballot boxes by 9 points nationwide since Roe v. Wade was overturned.
It’s been going on long enough now that either pollsters don’t want to adjust or they don’t know how.
As for the debate, there is (conservative funded so YMMV) research that shows that debates don’t change anyone’s mind.
Don’t get so wrapped up in their dog & pony show.
Saying polls are garbage is a straight bad take. The differentiation between polls is immense, and people treat them like they are just one thing.
They do adjust, and if you don’t know that I’m not likely to believe you have the knowledge to say they are bad.
Polls are still very indicative. Democrats are not magically beating them by 9 points. That’s just flatly untrue, unless you are just rolling every poll together with no regard for methodology, funding source, sample size, or track record.
That information came from David Axelrod, you can argue with him if you think he’s wrong.
Would be a great move to pick someone new but right before the nomination. Lots of independents want anyone but these 2 old dudes. If either party picked a different candidate, I think they would easily take the White House.
(Unlikely) but if the dems really just had biden out there to take the brunt of trumps attacks up until the nomination, then a majority of trumps platform (biden bad) goes out the window, while the dems platform (trump bad) gets to remain in place.
Would be a galaxy brain strategy but I don’t think anyone in politics would be smart enough to pull something like that off.
He couldn’t beat Trump in a relatively simple debate, how is he supposed to beat him in an election?
Above all, Joe Biden’s allies wanted him to demonstrate strength and energy on the debate stage to help put to rest questions about the 81-year-old Democrat’s physical and mental acuity.
But on the biggest stage in U.S. politics on Thursday night, Biden did not meet their modest expectations.
And by the end of the 90-minute showdown, the Democratic president’s allies — party strategists and rank-and-file voters alike — descended into all-out panic following a debate performance punctuated by repeated stumbles, uncomfortable pauses, and a quiet speaking style that was often difficult to understand. Publicly and privately, Democrats questioned whether the party could or should replace him as the party’s presidential nominee against the 78-year-old Republican former President Donald Trump this fall.
"I’m not the only one whose heart is breaking right now. There’s a lot of people who watched this tonight and felt terribly for Joe Biden,” former Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill said on MSNBC. “I don’t know if things can be done to fix this.”
What we can do is run a better candidate before it’s too late.
The convention isn’t for over a month, and the DNC has been very open about how they can just nominate anyone they want.
We’re only stuck with Biden because Biden and the people he put in charge of the DNC would rather risk trump than Biden step aside.
Can you imagine what it would look like if they chose someone like Jon Stewart instead? How a debate like that would have gone? A guy can dream…
Jon Stewart is someone I would actually look forward to giving my vote.
Would he have to leave the Daily Show though?
No but he would only agree to working one day a week as POTUS.
I mean, he’s only on once a week… Lol. In fact, he wasn’t on this week, so far.
He was on live yesterday post debate
He was on a live show Thursday right after the debate.
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Just anyone with more charisma than a bowl of cold oatmeal.
If nothing matters except beating trump, why arent we coalescing around a candidate Dem voters want so that we’ll get as much votes against trump as possible
Which candidate do you suggest, givesomefucks?
They have no ideas, they only know that they don’t like something
People who only dislike things are so fucking boring
The problem is “a candidate dem voters want” doesn’t have any obvious choices.
Like Harris isn’t that popular, but the optics of skipping over a black woman when the VP would typically be the heir apparent? You think Gavin Newsom would be a good choice? Californians don’t have a lot of good things to say about him right now. I haven’t seen a lot of other names floated.
I mean yea, but that’s not really fair to him. Being president seems like a terrible burden.
The problem is that the DNC would never go for him or anyone like him, because he’s not a blatant neoliberal.
If they swap, it’ll be someone like Newsom.
Voters choose the candidate in the primary, not “the DNC”.
This is false, the DNC has fought in court for the right to overrule the results of the primary. It was litigated in Wilding v. DNC Services Corporation.
Court Concedes DNC Had the Right to Rig Primaries Against Sanders
It’s funny how some people go on and on about the importance of democracy except when primary elections don’t go their way, at which point either the DNC rigged everything, or the DNC needs to step in to ‘fix’ the wrong choice the primary voters made. Sometimes they offer both simultaneously, because fuck consistency.
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I wonder if their goal is to undermine America as a whole, stoke apathy and distrust, and produce a certain strategic outcome.
Did we even watch the same debate? Trump is a rambling moron. Biden is old, that is a very real concern, but he wasn’t incoherent even a little bit.
What?
When asked about abortion, Biden started ranting about illegal immigrants murdering women…
And for an example used an instance where we don’t know who the murderers are, but right wing media keeps claiming it was immigrants.
Like, this isn’t just you and me bub.
Feel free to provide a source from literally any major news organization claiming Biden did well and was coherent.
You’re currently commenting on one about the opposite, but I can find more if you want
Trump didn’t answer a single question with anything other than, “I’m rubber; you’re glue.” Biden was stumbly but he at least answered questions and you 90% knew what he was talking about.
To rephrase this, trump performed as expected, Biden performed worse than expected.
Exactly.
I don’t know why people want to declare Biden did a great job just because Trump showed up and acted like trump.
Obviously, neither candidate did a great job. I just don’t see how anyone can declare Trump the winner. Everything is about what Biden did poorly. Are the right-wing forums sitting around this morning discussing what great ideas Trump put out last night?
I just don’t see how anyone can declare Trump the winner
trump supporters were always going to say it, but who cares what they think?
Everything is about what Biden did poorly.
Because when the only other option is trump, it really matters if Biden isn’t capable.
Are the right-wing forums sitting around this morning discussing what great ideas Trump put out last night?
Again, who cares?
And why does it sound like you want Dem voters to be more like Republican voters and have zero standards besides the letter by someone’s name?
You can’t turn the Dem party into the Republican party. If that’s what Dem voters wanted from a party. They’d be Republican voters.
It’s easier to change the candidate than 60 million Dem voter’s standards…
Biden was stumbly but he at least answered questions and you 90% knew what he was talking about.
He didn’t answer every question, multiple times he just went off about something else.
If you feel like you understood him 90% of the time, then you’re the exception. I’m sure every trump supporter is saying trump made sense most of the time too.
That’s why I asked:
Feel free to provide a source from literally any major news organization claiming Biden did well and was coherent.
And you apparently couldn’t find one…
Edit:
And I shouldn’t have to repeat this in every comment…
But yes.
Trump is terrible.
But Biden might not be good enough to beat Trump, so why not run someone that is while we’re still a month away from the convention and as the DNC loves to say: they can nominate anyone they want, primaries aren’t real elections.
When asked about abortion, Biden started ranting about illegal immigrants murdering women…
That is an outright lie. I’m not a fan of Biden for different reasons, but let’s stick to the truth.
I actually watched the debate. Its clear you didnt. Biden was coherent, even trump was for the most part coherent, he just made stuff up constantly.
Calling it ranting is hyperbole, but but he did randomly start talking about immigrants murdering women when answering the question about abortion.
Calling it ranting is hyperbole
For an average person? Sure.
Rant: to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
For last night? It was one of Biden’s most energetic responses…
For him, it was noisy, excited, and declamatory in manner.
In the context of Joe Biden, he was ranting about it.
Quick edit:
Your clip isn’t the one I’m remembering from last night and that my link referenced. I’ll try and find the other one, I didn’t know he pulled the same pivot twice.
ranting: noun
a long, angry, and impassioned speech. “at times, his rantings would become incoherent”
adjective
speaking at length in an angry and impassioned way.
I’m more familiar with the definition that includes the length of the speech. If you were using a definition that only refers to the energy, then I wouldn’t call it hyperbole.
No worries, the English language is almost completely illogical.
But yeah, with a 2 minute timer it’s hard to go into that meaning of a rant.
More of the “ranting and raving” then like a Dennis Leary standup joke that has a 45 minute set up.
Edit:
Oh and your clip is the only one that came up when I was searching, I might try and flip thru the whole debate if I can find that to see if it came up twice. But I probably won’t be that much energy into it, I was probably just remembering it wrong
During a response to a question about abortion, Biden mentioned, seemingly out of nowhere, a young woman who was recently murdered by an immigrant — an apparent reference to a 12-year-old Houston girl who was strangled to death, allegedly by two Venezuelan men who entered the country illegally.
The connection to abortion was unclear.
https://apnews.com/live/presidential-debate-2024-updates
This isn’t the 1970s… We don’t have to rely on our memories of what happened
If you don’t believe the AP’s live updates, if the full debate is uploaded to YouTube somewhere you can watch Biden say it.
You didn’t watch the debate. You were on 4chan apparently. This is the same exact thing those chuds are saying over there.
During a response to a question about abortion, Biden mentioned, seemingly out of nowhere, a young woman who was recently murdered by an immigrant — an apparent reference to a 12-year-old Houston girl who was strangled to death, allegedly by two Venezuelan men who entered the country illegally.
The connection to abortion was unclear.
https://apnews.com/live/presidential-debate-2024-updates
It literally happened…
You can go back and watch it happen.
I get that it’s not what you want to have happened, but that doesn’t change reality
Which candidate do you suggest, givesomefucks?
It’s kind of amazing how he’ll engage with every single response to his comments… except the ones asking who he thinks the Democratic party should nominate.
We’re only stuck with Biden because Biden and the people he put in charge of the DNC would rather risk trump than Biden step aside.
We’re stuck with Biden precisely because the DNC doesn’t want to risk Trump, and the incumbent advantage is significant.
and the incumbent advantage is significant.
An incumbent advantage helps but isn’t an automatic win.
Biden’s poll numbers are abysmal for Dem voters. The incumbent advantage likely won’t overcome his unpopularity.
And when the most common reason his supporters give us just “he’s not trump” then literally any Dem candidate has that too.
